tcirillo

i'm a long-time porsche owner. this is my 4th 911. i have had many ferrari's, and many cars. i race a SRF in SCCA for 20 years. That's my background.

with each succeeding generation of 911, i've listened to the complaints of the purists about how it has departed from its original design ethic. i've always been on the side of progress, over religion. and i've enjoyed the generational improvements.

i understand what porsche has tried to accomplish with the 992 (i have a C2S Cabrio) and after 9 months of ownership, i'm left confused. i find i'm not enjoying this 8th generation as much as any other, and i've asked why. and how to adapt, because it was a considerable commitment.

i'm curious of others, who have my type of background and experience, are having the same conflict.

all that has been said about the 992 is true. it's heavy, big, more comfortable, less edgy, more refined...i could go on, but you get the idea. it's porsche's interpretation of a GT car on a 911 platform. and i think that that is the root of my dilemma. i need to stop thinking of this as a 911, and instead think of it as a GT car. but when i do, i find myself conflicted there as well. maybe i've come to think of a GT car as a front-engined, rear drive, moderately sporty luxury experience? not a mid or rear engine, tight platform, semi-sports car?

i don't know. i want very much to be in love with this car. i had intended to keep it a long time. but doing so means resolving this conflict.

my best idea is to re-think it entirely, and approach it not as a 911, but as porsche's currrent interpretation of a semi-GT, which happens to be based on a 911 platform?

i wonder what others think. i'm not trying to re-open the age old debate about the evolution of the 911. instead, have others had this very experience, and how have they dealt with it/ dont' get me wrong: the 992 is brilliant in it's own way, but 'in it's own way' seems to be the key.

what say ye?

tcirillo

in short-hand, 911's always felt like 'old shoes'. you got in them, you felt immediately comfortable. this does not, from seating postiion, to bulk. it's not so much derivative, as it is different (PS, not need for a flame-suit here; i'm not trying to create controversy. i'm trying to resolve the personal conflict)

rk-d

I think this is a question that has been well covered.

Cabs are heavy and maybe that's your problem. As far as I'm concerned, the 992 is the best water cooled 911 Porsche has made. Period.

No it's doesn't feel like an air cooled 911, because nothing feels like an air-cooled 911. That doesn't automatically make it bad.

The broad consensus is that the 992 is an improvement over the 991, as a sports car, with better power, handling, steering. That has been my experience.

It sounds like you're wanting the type of car that can no longer be made. If you like the old 911 experience and don't currently have one - then get one. Because no modern sports car will replicate that experience. Regulations won't allow it and the market, frankly, doesn't want it.

My 993 is about as "sports car" as I can possibly make it. With that background, I think the 992 is a great sports car.

tcirillo

thanks for your thoughts. when you get into the 992, as opposed to the 993, can you describe the feeling you get? are you poised to expect a more comfortable, more luxurious experience. or a better overall performance envelope? this is a fantastic car? best overall? best all-around? what is the feeling? do you feel like you're getting into an evolved 911? or altogether something different?

oh, ps, the cab is, if i remember correctly, about 160lbs heavier...not the end of the world. something, but not terrible..

tcirillo

oh...and on the water-cooled vs air-cooled thought, i did have a 996 turbo, which more or less 'felt like' a 911

tcirillo

and just to be clear, i'm not trying to start a debate. i'm trying to find out if anyone else out there has felt the same conflict, and come to terms with it's evolution and how

detansinn

I have driven every generation of water cooled 911 and I have to agree with the above comment that the 992 is indeed the best. 12k miles and a year into the ownership experience, I remain astounded as to how dynamic this car can be.

It’s no bigger or heavier than the 991. Parked next to older 911s it is lower and wider — not a bad thing. 911s have never been lightweight cars. Heck, even the air cooled 993 generation tips the scales at 3,000lbs without a cooling system, safety systems, turbos, etc of the modern cars.

Yes, the Cabrios are heavier and carry the weight higher. This has been true for generations, but the trade gets you open air.

The 992 manages to sound legit good despite the turbos. If the 991.2 cars sounded like this, no one would have complained when Porsche threw in a couple of turbochargers.

All that said, if the car is leaving you cold, maybe it’s time to get something else. These things are supposed to be fun. If you’re not getting that out of the experience, it’s time to go in a different direction. I have an Alfa Romeo 4C Spider as my drop top when I need a change of pace. It’s an actual lightweight more than 1000lbs lighter than a modern 911, gloriously raw with no soundproofing or muffler. It’s as Italian as the 911 is German. An older Ferrari, while a bit more expensive to maintain than the 4C, can also get you the same feels.

rk-d

It's apples and oranges. The 993, even back in '98, felt very old fashioned. 25 years ago it was a considered a throwback car, so by today's standard it's a fossil. I don't think it's a fair comparison - Porsche was going bankrupt making those cars.

The 992 feels enormously more powerful and it has nice, sharp handling. It feels tossable to me, which is an improvement over the 991 Carrera. I think it's a blast to drive. Cornering speeds are so much higher, the grip is so much greater - it squirts around corners because of the RAS and the power makes it feel light to me.

The 993, being NA with a lightweight flywheel, has a very responsive motor. It's a little more responsive than the 992. The 993 doesn't feel slow, but it is in fact much slower than the 992.

It is more comfortable and the 993, as I have it set up, is more tactile and stimulating. You have to push the 992 a little to wake her up. The 993 is brimming with personality at 40 mph.

The flip side is that the 993 is a total pain in the *** to drive in traffic. All the things that make it fun to drive are annoying in heavy traffic.

For a Sunday morning, empty roads car -- 993 all day long. For a true dual purpose sports car that can actually be very usable during the weekday and in traffic while still providing that zing -- 992.

The 993 can be difficult to live with sometimes, but I can drive the 992 every day as my DD without a second thought. In that way it's not an "event" drive. But the advantage is that I get to exploit it more often. There is value in that.

"GT car", "Sports car" - I don't get hung up on labels. Definitions evolve. The 993 was considered a GT car by the older guys back in the day because Porsche had the audacity to put a multi-link the rear.

tcirillo

exceptional response! thanks for taking the time. i see exactly how you view the 992. i'm hoping i too can get there. i have a 360 ferrari too at this time, and it's very much the tossable sunday driver for me, so i'm blessed, as you are, to have both. i need to adjust how i approach the 992

tcirillo

oh, a couple of other thoughts too ...
the performance envelope is SO high that experiencing it's 'tossability' on public roads is nearly impossible (don't forget i own a race car too and race so i get get lot's of tossabilty lol). second, IF you were to see it as a legitimate 'gt' car, how would it compare to others? you may think that's also apples and oranges or not fair

detansinn

Roads in south Florida are less than ideal to experience the tossability of the car. When you leave near mountain and canyon roads, you can have a lot more fun and toss the car around. Here in PA, we've got plenty of twisty back roads.

I used to commute to Miami and basically lived there for two years, loved it, but aside from making the best of the clover leaf interchanges, the roads just weren't fun.

WCE

Sounds like it might be time to try the Porsche GT range - which are ironically less of a "GT car".
Alternatively, pump your tires up to the recommended max load range, activate your PASM sport mode and goodbye GT car!

tcirillo

indeed, it's true! this year, owing to it's newness, we shipped it up to our CT home, and enjoyed some backroad driving. but unfortunately it is a FL car for us, boo

tcirillo

actually, i thought of a track day just to see what she's all about, but i didn't want to put my new baby in jeopardy. maybe next yr. also, she's a cab, not particularly suited to track duty

stealthpilot

I'm confused. It seems your main thesis is that the car is heavier than older 911s. Let's set aside the cabriolet and focus on the coupe. Only an idiot would buy a cabriolet as a sports car. A cabriolet is a GT car.

911: Weight, as tested: 2720 lb (1965); 2760 lb (1984)
964: Weight, as tested: 3050 lb (1990); 2980 lb (1993 Speedster)
993: Weight, as tested: 3080 lb (1995); 3116 lb (1998 Carrera S)
996: Weight, as tested: 2900 lb (1999)
997: Weight, as tested: 3253 lb (2005); 3320 lb (2009)
991:Weight (C/D est): 3250–3350 lb
992: Weight, (C/D est): 3317 lb (Carrera S)

So I think it is remarkable how little weight this car has gained over the years. The biggest weight gain was from the 911 to the 964. After that it has added small amounts of weight due to safety tech. As for the size, making the car wider and longer while maintaining the low weight of the 997 and 991 generations only enhances the performance of the car. Porsche is evolving the wheelbase and with in the same direction as other world-class sports cars like Ferrari and McLaren.

Bottom line - you're wrong.