gcurnew

Or offer to pay what they're asking, keeping some dollars flowing through the dealership to employees. Once the crisis is over, business owners will remember which customers took the high road. As an owner, I guarantee that will be the case. Anyone in these extra-ordinary times who can buy a 992 can afford to ease the burden on dealership staff.

Freddie Two Bs

So when he goes to order a GT3RS, do you think they'll remember and say 'of course sir, MSRP for you'?

gcurnew

Maybe, if he/she was one of the few customers that didn't try to play the "lowball" game when they were hurting.

Anthony992

This is where the situation is different for each customer and risk/reward comes into play. If you are ultra wealthy than a discount on a 911 probably does not really iimpact you one way or the other. However, if you are a car enthusiast that can afford one the larger discount (and the real question is how big of a discount is needed to part with your money in the middle of what is going on) is a large factor in taking on risk versus being prudent and keeping the cash. It is the same on the dealer side with the risk of continuing to hold the inventory versus taking the cash that is available.

gcurnew

Let's say a prospective buyer is able to get another 5 percentage points off a 992 because the dealer is hurting. Great...buyer is feeling good about how savvy they are, skilled negotiator etc. Meanwhile the dealership has laid off or reduced hours of receptionist, service writers, business office support. Is the buyer still feeling good about their "bargain"? The money "saved" is coming straight out of the pockets of people who can least afford to lose income, or their jobs.

Are buyers also taking advantage of the situation to negotiate lower prices on other products and services? Not tipping restaurants that are delivering food? Asking for discounts at the grocery store? For anyone that can afford to buy a 992 - especially in the next year while the effects of COVID-19 ravage economies - a few percentage points on a $125k car should be inconsequential. This isn't a "business as usual" world anymore, and the "rules" of commerce need to be adjusted in the short term to support workers of the world getting through the crisis with the minimum amount of financial pain. The high and low roads are clearly marked.

GratedWasabi

I'm sorry but that's an absolutely bogus argument. A customer seeking fair market value for a product has nothing to do with an employer paying their employees.

Suggesting that a customer asking for an additional 2% or 3% off MSRP due to the market and excessive dealer inventory is responsible in any way for how a dealership treats their employees is OUTRAGEOUS. Equally outrageous is the notion that by paying more a dealership will use that money for low level employees.

If you're concerned about people losing their jobs, which you should be, negotiate the best possible discount on your car and donate the savings to a better cause.

Anthony992

I think you are mixing Apples and Oranges. You are trying to compare a major investment in a luxury item to everyday necessities, whose prices by the way are market driven - - haven't you noticed all the promotional pricing in the grocery stores has stopped! And on a personal note, we are continuing to pay people that do services for us (house cleaner, barber) that we cannot utilize right now. Hopefully you are doing the same!

On to the luxury goods market. I would assume many people on this forum also enjoy fine watches. I myself have been collecting Rolex watches for the past 30+ years. Over the past 5 years or so the market for Stainless Steel Rolex watches tightened dramatically, to a point that if you walked into a jewelry store and enquired about buying one of the sport models they would pretty much laugh at you. Rolex did a good job of reducing the number of Jewelry stores that carry the brand as well as did not increase the production of watches to fully meet the demand that started to come out of parts of the world like China. So you say, what does this have to do with buying a Porsche at a time like this? Well, the jewelry store I had loyally been buying watches from for more than a decade suddenly started telling me that to get the watches I wanted I needed to start buying things I did not want. And when I questioned how they could act like this to a loyal customer who had even purchased watches in the middle of the economic meltdown in 2008 they said it was the new reality due to the scarcity of the stainless steel watches. I am still waiting for more than 2 years later for a watch I asked them to get for me.

So if it is a free market as the above examples show - - grocery stores charge more for food in a crisis, jewelers charge more for watches in demand (by requiring additional purchases) -- then why should I or anyone else not expect to operate within the same free market situation when it is to our advantage? It takes two to tango, the dealer does not have to accept anyone's offer. The question I have raised is what is the fair value of a 911 in this current situation. It is not something anyone needs and like I said unless you are independently wealthy, where dropping $150k does nothing to your bank account than it is a risk/reward question -- At what price do you buy something you don't need but has a meaningful impact on your finances in a very risky economy?

One other side note, Nordstrom at the beginning of the crisis did something I have never seen them do - - offer 25% on their entire website for a couple of days. Probably a very smart strategic move to build up some cash reserves and thin out inventory heading into this crisis! By the way they now say they can withstand 1 year of their physical locations being shut down.

Licensed2bill

Thanks Anthony992 for the analysis. You are correct that I was just trying to determine a FMV for a used CPO demo car. The market for new cars (lot vs. order) has been pretty well discussed in several forums but I didn't see anything about valuing a 2020 dealer demo car. Didn't know if additional discounts were reasonable or not. Or if there were non-monetary issues I should be worried about when buying a dealer demo car.

Many other posters are correct that 1-2% price difference on what is clearly a luxury purchase is not a "bank-breaker" but it doesn't really address my question of what is a FMV. Others have noted that the dealer can always say no to an offer if it's not a value to them. I'm certainly looking for a win-win situation for both the dealer and me, but want to do so in a financially-responsible manner. I have accumulated the resources to buy a Porsche by being financially responsible.

gcurnew

Yeah. I don't think you get it; what I'm suggesting requires abstract thinking outside current societal and business constructs.

Sporty

You are so off base on this. When I lose my job is Porsche finance going to give a crap about me and reduce my payments? What about overpaid Porsche executives making millions of dollars did they give up their fat bonuses to accommodate survivorship of their dealers and staff. Is Porsche running a loss this year (?) or ,for example, are we saying that instead of profit of $2B they are only going to make $1.5B, so we consumers should pony up so they make their numbers. What about the dealer owner - he really needs my extra $10k -he should look to Porsche to help him tread water right now? Now, their may be instances where what you are saying would be feasible and applicable but not with Porsche nor its dealers.

ldamelio

If considering your local Porsche dealer a high priority charity in a pandemic is 'abstract thinking outside current and societal business constructs,' then I don't get it either. If you're lucky enough to easily swing a new 992 at present, buy it at FMV and pass the savings along to your local food bank or homeless shelter. In case you missed it, the F-word here is 'Fair.' No one is advocating ripping off a dealer, but no one should feel obligated to overpay either.

gcurnew

Dealers are franchises; effectively (in all but a few cases) small businesses. Don't conflate dealer profit margins and Porsche margins. If skinflint Porsche customers grind 50 or so of the smaller ones into bankruptcy (taking out hundreds of non-Porsche employees in the process) it won't hurt the mothership much, if at all. Sure, Porsche should be helping its dealers...as should banks and governments. My suggestion is that customers have a role has well, and it's as simple as leaving a bit of money on the table to enable them to keep their businesses afloat.

gcurnew

No, "considering your local Porsche dealer a high priority charity in a pandemic" isn't even remotely close to "abstract thinking outside current and societal business constructs (sic)." It's not what I said either...
Further, it's not just food banks and homeless shelters that need all the support they can get, it's businesses of every stripe. Porsche dealers are independent businesses, struggling with the same issues to stay afloat as a restaurant, a gym or a daycare.

rk-d

I get what you're saying. Part of the reason I went through with my purchase was in the interest of being fair to my dealer who has always been good to me. That said - it was almost too good a deal to turn down.

Dealers know the score. This is a ruthless game and FMV is what it is. It just doesn't make sense to pay more than what the car is really worth and, ultimately, the dealer will not sell a car if it doesn't make sense for them financially.

Brad911

Luckily, dealers don’t up charge popular cars or new, limited releases.

This thread has lost its mind.

There are 192+/- Porsche dealers in the USA. Negotiate the best price on a car you want and move on. Life is short and it’s a depreciating ‘asset’ ... don’t overthink it. Strive for fair and move on.