You know I have a 991.2 C2 and waiting on my 992 C2S manual. I really wanted to order another C2 MT, but of course had to order the C2S. I am wondering if you had a C2 before and how they compare? Or anybody else that just received their C2S MT - how do they compare? I know it’s faster, but more about turbo lag and driving dynamics.

 

Did not own a 991.2 or .1- Never owned a turbo equipped car but have driven a couple- last car was a e90M3 V8 NA
and I do not experience any lag whatsoever. I would never know unless someone told me it was turbocharged.

The transmission is perfect.... the rev-match feature, for those of use who still have not perfected the rev-matched
downshift, makes corners much more enjoyable.... it is a blast!

 

there is a little lag .. feels more like electronic throttle response than turbo lag

 

If the decision to limit number of MTs sold is for CAFE purposes, as some have posited, this really is a moot issue . . .

 

I don't know. The base Carrera started losing key/desirable options (for me, anyway) with the 991.2, with Sport PASM no longer available. The reason stated was the take rate for Sport PASM on the 991.1 Carrera was tiny, which doesn't surprise me—but it seems like a fair few opted for the 7MT in the 991.2 Carrera. Now that the base 992 Carrera is PDK only, the answer for those of us who prefer three pedals is an S. And, sure enough, when I visit the configurator—as I always configure a Carrera S 7MT where I previously configured a Carrera 7MT.

For me, a manual gearbox is a key component in the experience of a sports car. Get rid of it, and my interest in the car evaporates with very few exceptions (track cars are a separate thing). Any longings I had for new Ferraris disappeared 10-15 years ago, and I think it coincided with the end of the gated manual. I've driven several new Ferraris since then, and have been blown away by the engines, handling, turn-in, sounds, styling (in some cases), etc. The 458 and F12 are fabulous cars, and yet I have zero desire to own them as I did (and still do) with particular models from the 1960s through the mid-2000s. Don't even dream about it.

I suppose we should be thankful that there's a manual at all in modern 911s. There have been (and are) a number of legislative and financial decisions working against the manual transmission—and it wasn't so many years ago that a plan was afoot to make all 911s PDK (possibly with AWD), and you see shades of it in the 992: all are wide-body, and the base is (so far) PDK only. But I didn't put a lot of stock in that rumor, and still don't like putting stock in rumors. The lack of the 7MT in the base 992 Carrera might be something worth starting a petition over, imo. At worst, a group of enthusiasts let PCNA know their feelings—and we've seen PCNA respond to well-organized, respectful petitions/customer groups in surprisingly cool ways. At best, the 7MT will make a return as a no-cost option. Or the group will learn that it's being held as part of a "driver's model" based on the Carrera like the Carrera T.

 

I will only buy a 992 if l can get a base with a manual transmission. In 2018 l ordered a 718 and in 2019 l ordered a BMW M2 Competition [both manual] but what l really want is a 911. The 992 just has gotten too expensive for the normal person to buy so the manual is to save money as well.

RET

 

The problem here is that Porsche doesn't care to produce a manual so they have no desire to make it more affordable, they would rather make it at a price point that indicates poor sales

 

I'm not going to hold my breath, but given the plethora of options Porsche offers for these cars it would make sense (other than for CAFE numbers) to offer some performance-type options on the Base Carrera 992. Since the C2 is standard with the higher profile 19/20 inch wheels (but can be ordered with 20/21) it would be great to be able to order the lowered Sport PASM and the 7MT with a LSD. I'm going to guess that most guys who want a 7MT would also like Sport PASM and a LSD (okay, PTV and mechanical LSD). I realize that such a model would be the 991.2 911T in a significantly wider body. The argument for such a model is that the take rate would likely be small enough to have minimal impact on the overall CAFE rating; however, that small take rate argues against providing it in the first place. Probably the only way to have any chance to accomplish what we want would be to have enough people petition PCNA to really get their attention.

Somebody correct me, because I cannot recall the pricing on the 991.2 C2 Base vs. C2T vs. C2S, but I thought the C2T had to some degree copied the GTS package/value concept over the C2S. That would mean both the C2T and GTS appealed to people who wanted particular options grouped together in a reduced cost package.

The main reason I am leaning toward a C2 Base Carrera in the first place is that I keep hearing guys saying that the Base 3.0L twin turbo motor has noticeably less turbo lag than the S motor. And, taking this one more step, does the 3.0L twin turbo motor in the 991.2 GTS have even more lag? The only 991.2 I have ever driven was a Base C2 with PDK, so I'm unfortunately in a position of complete ignorance. Then, to make me even more confused, I've read reliable sources who say that the new 992.1 3.8L Turbo and Turbo S motors are newly based on the 9A2 motor family, and that the turbochargers are located and configured (they each spin in the opposite direction) to yield much quicker spin-up and therefore less turbo lag. If the turbo opposite spin is now used on the 3.8L 9A2-based motor, is it now, or will it likely at some point, be used in the 9A2 3.0L Carrera motors?

I really hope that all of us in this section of the Porsche audience are not just making a lot of noise signifying nothing. Porsche, like nearly all for-profit enterprises, tends to design product differentiation to move consumers toward more expensive models.

 

Sounds like you are overthinking that which barely exists...

Base model with significantly less lag than an S???? Did you hear about that on Fox News?

 

Yes, if you read the reviews and read about the technology, the new turbos reduce lag. I really didn’t notice it on my C2S test drive. I know what turbo lag is having owned Saab Turbos.

 

Totally with you, Pete. As you've said before, experience > performance, at least for some of us...I believe the prices of the last big V12 Ferraris with manuals are substantially higher today than the prices of the same models with "automatics."

Some of us think the motor in the base 991.2 C2 provides a little more "naturally aspirated experience" than the motor in the 991.2 C2S. That said, the 991.2 C2S (which I have driven several times in PDK form) is a wonderful car. No doubt about it.

God bless,
TT

 

Really happy to hear you did not notice lag when you drove a C2S. I also recall the lag on the two Saab 900 Turbos I owned in the 1980s. As I said, I haven't driven any 3.0L 9A2 turbo except a 991.2 Base C2 with PDK. That car seemed to have near NA type responses. I do recall some people on the 991 Forum who mentioned turbo lag on 991.2 S and GTS versions. That's why I asked about any lag issues with the 992 S. And, Steve, I wish I had heard about lag on Fox News, so I'd be able forget about the issue

I'm not quite ready to buy a 992 yet, partly because so far I can't make a final decision on which model. My wants (as opposed to needs) have gradually changed over the past five years. I bought a '15 991.1 GTS and did enough modifications to make it a good track car (DE events, no actual racing) but still be an enjoyable road car.I had planned to keep the '15 for a long time, until I found out my insurance company decided to exclude driver ed track coverage. Event based track insurance was too expensive for me to tolerate, so I sold it and went to a much less expensive track focused '02 Boxster S. I've now realized that while I still feel safe on road circuits I'm approaching the point (age!) where I will have to make the decision to stop. Therefore, I sold the track car early this year and plan to use my daily driver '18 VW Golf R for track events. As most of you probably know, the Golf R has a 2.0L single turbo motor with about 290hp/280tq in stock form. It's a lot of fun on roads, but I have yet to drive it on a track. It also has some turbo lag issues from that single turbo, which I've had to learn to drive around.

Since any 992 I buy will be primarily a road car, with at most only an occasional track day, I'd really like to at least consider the 7MT. For the road I also cannot see the need for the performance of either the 992 S or GTS. So, the ideal model for me could be a Base C2, especially if I could get one with Sport Chrono, PTV/LSD, Sport PASM, and the 7MT. In my dreams only, probably. Oh well, this is all about wants, not needs.

 

You will get it. Porsche already mentioned that we will get a 992 T, and what you listed is exactly the additional options the 991 T came with.

Be patient, though, I doubt we will see it before the 2022 M/Y, if not 2023.

 

like i said before i don't think its turbo lag.. once you floor the car it takes a second then goes but its not like turbo lag.. turbo lag you feel the power increasing slowly then it pushes you back in your seat .. this feels like a electronic delay

 

What you just said about "it takes a second" is interesting. I don't recall anything particularly specific from the one time I drove a 991.2 Base C2, except that it seemed to respond well and was quite quick. But, I've now been driving my '18 VW Golf R for two years with their 7-speed DSG gearbox (similar to PDK). This VW has a 2.0L 4 cylinder single turbo motor with about 290hp/280tq. If I'm sitting at a traffic light, motor idling, and my right foot not touching the gas pedal at all, I can press the gas pedal and the car feels like it responds very well nearly instantly. It doe not have the same connected response feeling that you get with a NA motor, but neither is it typical turbo lag. Overall, in the above situation, I'm very happy with how it responds. However, let's just change the scenario slightly: Say I'm approaching the traffic light and slowing down with my foot mostly off the gas, but still with slight pressure on the pedal. As I'm approaching the light, intending to make a left turn, the light turns green so I slowly enter the intersection because I have to wait for a car coming from the opposite direction to pass me before turning left. I've barely kept my foot on the gas pedal while slowly moving forward. As soon as the car passes, I depress the gas pedal normally (not particularly hard) to move and make the left turn. Absolutely nothing happens. Not just a delay. I could push the pedal further down and the same thing- nothing, I'm simply coasting at the same slow pace while I was waiting for the car to pass. Think about this situation, where you wait to make your left turn for one car to pass, but there are more cars coming and you would normally have enough time to make the left turn in front of them. When I am still moving slowly forward throughout this maneuver and step on the gas to complete the turn before oncoming traffic I am left slowly just continuing to coast across in front of them. Anything that I try to do by pressing the gas pedal results in zero response from the engine. After a few of these incidents I finally discovered that while coasting slowly and barely on the gas the only way to get any acceleration from the engine was to physically take my foot totally off the gas pedal, then quickly press it again. The response would be immediate with a sense of good turbo power and no delay. At normal driving speeds, say cruising along at anywhere between 30-70 mph, with your foot rather lightly on the gas, this problem does not occur at all. This issue I've described feels like it may very well be electronic. There is no physical connection between the gas pedal and the engine, so possibly the engine is simply not getting the message I'm trying to send by pressing my foot down. I've never heard anyone mention my just described problem with a Porsche 9A2 3.0L twin turbo motor, so your description of "this feels like a electronic delay" sounds right, but it does not leave you stranded with no further response from the motor. My VW problem seems to be related to the electronic accelerator combined with a 2.0L motor tuned to nearly 300hp with a single turbo.