Alan Smithee

^ You forgot to mention 'and more profitable'.

Hence the industry shift to electric.

Chris3963

What you are after is an Alpine A110...close to 300hp in the S model....only 2,450lbs.....absolutley brilliant car....but they are not selling very well.

tstafford

Why not just buy are really nice 997 or 993?

992carreraS

Porsche once considered a less expensive car, below the Boxster I believe. Their final position was not to dilute the brand and deemed a used Porsche was actually their entry level car. Same theory can apply here as tstafford has quoted. Perfect answer to " why doesn't Porsche make a smaller 911" ? Because, they already did.

chuckbdc

I don't think Porsche's disinterest has nothing to do with diluting the brand or undercutting the Boxster. There is at present simply not enough of a market for smaller than Boxster roadsters or sports cars to justify production. Niche cars like Miata, Z4 and its ugly Toyota cousin sell in ever smaller numbers. Thats also why Porsche is seriously considering evolving the 718 into its electric two seater offering in a few years.

rk-d

I think while there can be debate about the potential market for a back to basics, small 911, I don’t think there is a debate that Porsche will never build one.

Have you owned an air-cooled Porsche? As long as you have a good local shop, it’s not necessarily a big deal. Yeah you have to pay to play, but $150k gives you a lot of wiggle room. I’m a good bit under that and my car is pretty much exactly what I’ve always wanted in a 911.

chuckbdc

I bought a new 1978 911 SC in 78 and enjoyed it for 30 years. Fantastic car as a daily driver, PCA autocross and DE (once the clutch, chain tensioners air box, air pump, muffler and sundry other "improvements" were made). Fun to work on too. Thought I'd never replace it. But I did and don't miss it a bit. My 991 C2S with SPASM/PDK and PS4s is, for me, and objectively, superior in every way. That said, there is nothing like an air cooled 911 and every Porsche enthusiast owes it to themselves to experience one.

Drifting

Why is that you think?

I haven’t had an opportunity to drive one as not available in US. I do think they priced the Alpine too aggressively. Not sure why most wouldn’t just get a cayman given the cost/specs of the alpine, particularly given the known it factor of a Porsche. Alpine didn’t beat the cayman on much, only weight, but with much less HP, and so the cayman has a better power to weight ratio, and the cayman cost less, and comes from a more prestigious company.

Why would anyone purchase an Alpine over a Cayman?

limegreen

Of course I have, but I completely disagree that it's not a big deal especially if you have to spend new car money on one.

While they are very well built and able stand the test of time nothing can stop the forces of aging and an old air cooled Porsche is..... old. The paint, the body, the hardware, the interior trim and seats, the mechanicals etc. they are all showing their age at this point and even the greatest kept examples are far from feeling anything more than somewhat fragile, rickety, tired and around every corner is an aged component waiting to become problematic.

I would know because 11 years ago I sold what was probably one of the nicest 88 911's in the country at that time and it was that feeling that way even at the 20 year mark let alone now. The 993's are no different today. The leather is starting to dry out, the weather seals are not as supple as they used to be, the spoiler groans with every deployment and it's rubber bellow is tearing, every repair is met with brittle plastics and clips, deteriorated hoses and wires etc. the paint is showing it's age and is only another compound buff or two away from needing a respray and that isn't even getting into the engine / drive-train.

If those types of things aren't a bother to you and seen as "personality/ patina" then I totally get it.

If your more like me and want the best value for the money and to experience things when at their absolute best with as little hassle as possible then a newer car is unfortunately the only answer.






Could it have something to do with the fact that its a...... Renault?

ThomasCarreraGTS

Could it have something to do with the fact that its a...... Renault?[/QUOTE]


Yes. This. Used to work for Renault. They designed entertaining cars but like all French, British and Italian makes, reliability is a foreign concept to them.

limegreen

Anytime there is a discussion about Porsche breaking the current conventional mold by producing a back basics sports car there are always a handful who cite examples of other makes who tried and failed doing the same. They use that as the basis for why Porsche can't , won't or shouldn't do it without first considering that those companies are NOT Porsche.

What I find most hilarious though is that these companies ( Alfa, Renault, Lotus) had way more to lose in most instances than Porsche does. Yet, despite their short comings, I love the sports cars that these companies have built and even though they have fallen predictably short in many ways I respect the hell out of them for having the guts to try and putting in the effort to do so.

Porsche these days is the equivalent of a middle aged,boring, compliant corporate drone of a suburban Dad who only used to be cool. Most pathetically, even though he desperately still wants to be cool again and despite his secure financial position, he's not willing to risk anything for the chance to get it all back.

rk-d

Evidently that’s not the case, because what you want is the experience of an older Porsche 911. The car you want does not exist. I’d say your best bet would be a new GT4 or Boxster Spyder. Obviously you don’t like dealing with older cars. I don’t agree with your laundry list of problems - I’ve had a very positive experience with my car and it certainly doesn’t feel old or rickety. If anything, it’s the opposite, but that’s neither here nor there and not really the point anyway.

Bottom line - if I didn’t have a 993, I’d be on the list for a 2020 Boxster Spyder. That car checks off a lot of these boxes for me and having previously owned a GT4, I’d predict it’s got all the visceral feedback you’d want.

EDIT: GT3 Touring is another one. I need a backseat for my girl, otherwise I'd jump all over a GT3-T if I had no need for that.

MarcusG

I forget who said it earlier in the thread but yes, Rennlist is a very small slice of the Porsche 911 market.

That's why the 911 is still becoming more big boned. And more a grand tourer.

Like Chuck said earlier.. if you think you're in the market for a brand new "smaller" 911 and you haven't owned an air cooled car... you gotta go out and do it. Then you'll know.

Did you guys see the video last week with a 992 and the ruby 964 Carrera S on the ring? I'm not saying the world should revolve around ring times but...

If the experience is what you want, you can get into a halfway decent 964 for $50 and jump into the learning curve.

I'm the first to not want to own a new 911 out of warranty but you just gotta do what you gotta do.

slc4s

Seems to me like the Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder are as close as you are going to get. Naturally aspirated, manual transmission, kinda sorta relatively speaking light weight.

olsonreels

New cars have depreciation which must be factored into VFM. Old cars are old with old car problems. I think everyone gets that. If the new cars stink and the old cars stink, what is one to do?

993 spoiler wall is $114.21 from Sonnen (plus tax and shipping). Even the most ham fisted person there is could change that out in under 15 minutes. Set for the next 5+ years before it splits again.

993 spoiler transmission is $321 from Sonnen. 10 minutes on the web to figure it out and another 15 minutes changing it. No more grinding noise when the spoiler operates (but it will come back as the bearing will rust out in time). Or, if you are inclined its $6 for a sealed bearing (including super glue to put the housing back together) to replace the corroded steel bearing which makes the noise. And a couple of hours to do the job via the DIY found on the web. This will last as long as the glue bonds hold.

I bought my 993 eyes wide open as I wanted a new hobby. So far the experience is nothing like you are trying to paint and matches most of what is written on Rennlist (repairs/updates/upgrades). Have put 8500 miles on it in 17 months. Some minor niggles but honestly its been great. And super easy to work on.

Possibly drive a 992 before hammering the coffin nails in on Porsche?