First Drive in 992
02-01-2019, 11:34 AM
#106
Burning Brakes
Damn. Even though I watched this video, I hadn't noticed they got rid of the sharp lines on each side of the rear windshield extending down past the grill. They really should have kept those. Would have tied the hood lines in well. Looks so much better on the 991.2. Also think the rear lights on the 992 could be lowered by a couple of centimeters. Just my opinions.
02-02-2019, 12:50 AM
#107
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Addendum: Spent an unexpected track day in the 991.2 this week, which was interesting after time on track in the 992.
Thoughts here: https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1127...gh-pt-2-a.html
Thoughts here: https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1127...gh-pt-2-a.html
02-06-2019, 02:57 AM
#108
Oder Rear Axle Steering?
[QUOTE=stout;15606177]^ No question in my mind that RAS, as it does in the 991.2, contributed to agility, stability, and driver confidence in the 992s I tested. What I found interesting is that it is less apparent in use to me than it is in the 991.2, where I sometimes can detect a whiff of "digital" at work in the simpler-spec cars (Carrera S, Carrera T). It's a very minor and hard to "prove" sensation, and issue—but it wasn't one in the 992.
@stout Thank you for your excellent review, which I really appreciate. I am about to order my 992 C2S and am not sure whether to include the RAS. Technically, the steering is more direct without it. Does one feel the difference? I care for a visceral driving experience but I also like the car to be agile. Were you able to drive a car with and without RAS? What would you recommend? Thank you.
901911
@stout Thank you for your excellent review, which I really appreciate. I am about to order my 992 C2S and am not sure whether to include the RAS. Technically, the steering is more direct without it. Does one feel the difference? I care for a visceral driving experience but I also like the car to be agile. Were you able to drive a car with and without RAS? What would you recommend? Thank you.
901911
02-06-2019, 03:29 AM
#109
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=901911;15619111]
^ Too early to answer your question, as they did not have non-RAS cars available to me to test. So, there is some extrapolation (always a risk...) to be considered. I was 50/50 on RAS on the Carrera T, appreciating its added agility, precision, and stability as I have in more complex 991.2 models but recognizing a bit of purity lost, as if another computer was at work with my inputs. Which, of course, was a reality. RAS almost won me over, but a back to back drive over the same roads in a Carrera without RAS (or, for that matter, Sport PASM) had me liking no RAS.
Thing with the 992 is, they've improved RAS again. It's so imperceptible that I had to check the spec. The car just works. So...I would probably order it. Ditto with PDCC, which I was no fan of in the 991.1 for similar reasons. It, too, is great on the 992. Invisible in use.
I do, however, want to try the 992 Carrera 7MT. I am very curious, as I tend to like simple cars. But then "technology cars" are done well, I like them. My first hours in a 992 with Sport PASM, PDCC, and RAS suggest its chassis is done very well indeed…
^ No question in my mind that RAS, as it does in the 991.2, contributed to agility, stability, and driver confidence in the 992s I tested. What I found interesting is that it is less apparent in use to me than it is in the 991.2, where I sometimes can detect a whiff of "digital" at work in the simpler-spec cars (Carrera S, Carrera T). It's a very minor and hard to "prove" sensation, and issue—but it wasn't one in the 992.
@stout Thank you for your excellent review, which I really appreciate. I am about to order my 992 C2S and am not sure whether to include the RAS. Technically, the steering is more direct without it. Does one feel the difference? I care for a visceral driving experience but I also like the car to be agile. Were you able to drive a car with and without RAS? What would you recommend? Thank you.
901911
@stout Thank you for your excellent review, which I really appreciate. I am about to order my 992 C2S and am not sure whether to include the RAS. Technically, the steering is more direct without it. Does one feel the difference? I care for a visceral driving experience but I also like the car to be agile. Were you able to drive a car with and without RAS? What would you recommend? Thank you.
901911
Thing with the 992 is, they've improved RAS again. It's so imperceptible that I had to check the spec. The car just works. So...I would probably order it. Ditto with PDCC, which I was no fan of in the 991.1 for similar reasons. It, too, is great on the 992. Invisible in use.
I do, however, want to try the 992 Carrera 7MT. I am very curious, as I tend to like simple cars. But then "technology cars" are done well, I like them. My first hours in a 992 with Sport PASM, PDCC, and RAS suggest its chassis is done very well indeed…
02-06-2019, 03:54 AM
#110
992 seems like a winner. I'm on board. It's the fussiest 911 to date, so I can write a book on things I don't like about it, but just as I felt when I saw and sat in it, it just comes together well enough to me. And at the end of the day, it looks identical to a 991 to most eyes.
At least now I know my era of 911 ownership and aspiration won't stop at the 991.1 like I bummed-outedly assumed. If I can get myself to get a turbo 911, I know which one it will be. Between the 991.1 and 992, there are things about both that I know will make me very happy and feel a sense of specialness.
I'm confident 992's won't do nearly as well in the resale department as 991.1's, which if true, will bode well if I do decide to switch in the future.
At least now I know my era of 911 ownership and aspiration won't stop at the 991.1 like I bummed-outedly assumed. If I can get myself to get a turbo 911, I know which one it will be. Between the 991.1 and 992, there are things about both that I know will make me very happy and feel a sense of specialness.
I'm confident 992's won't do nearly as well in the resale department as 991.1's, which if true, will bode well if I do decide to switch in the future.
02-06-2019, 10:40 AM
#111
[QUOTE=stout;15619124]
^ Too early to answer your question, as they did not have non-RAS cars available to me to test. So, there is some extrapolation (always a risk...) to be considered. I was 50/50 on RAS on the Carrera T, appreciating its added agility, precision, and stability as I have in more complex 991.2 models but recognizing a bit of purity lost, as if another computer was at work with my inputs. Which, of course, was a reality. RAS almost won me over, but a back to back drive over the same roads in a Carrera without RAS (or, for that matter, Sport PASM) had me liking no RAS.
Thing with the 992 is, they've improved RAS again. It's so imperceptible that I had to check the spec. The car just works. So...I would probably order it. Ditto with PDCC, which I was no fan of in the 991.1 for similar reasons. It, too, is great on the 992. Invisible in use.
I do, however, want to try the 992 Carrera 7MT. I am very curious, as I tend to like simple cars. But then "technology cars" are done well, I like them. My first hours in a 992 with Sport PASM, PDCC, and RAS suggest its chassis is done very well indeed…
Pete- Thank you for your prompt and thoughtful reply. I have added RAS to my configuration, but will do without PDCC. My only caveat to ordering the car is that I am afraid I might get bored with it, just like I did with my 991.2 (4S, PDK). I tried the 7 speed manual transmission in a 991.2 GTS and found it unsatisfactory: These turbo engines have so much torque that changing gears manually adds little to the driving experience. Above all, I felt that the 7 speed manual transmission is not a great transmission and that these cars are really designed for a pdk. The electronics (automatic handbrake, start-stop systems etc.) just work better with a pdk. It is for this reason that I hope to get a more direct and visceral experience in the 992, mainly due to the improved steering. Do you think this is a realistic expectation?
Thank you.
901911
^ Too early to answer your question, as they did not have non-RAS cars available to me to test. So, there is some extrapolation (always a risk...) to be considered. I was 50/50 on RAS on the Carrera T, appreciating its added agility, precision, and stability as I have in more complex 991.2 models but recognizing a bit of purity lost, as if another computer was at work with my inputs. Which, of course, was a reality. RAS almost won me over, but a back to back drive over the same roads in a Carrera without RAS (or, for that matter, Sport PASM) had me liking no RAS.
Thing with the 992 is, they've improved RAS again. It's so imperceptible that I had to check the spec. The car just works. So...I would probably order it. Ditto with PDCC, which I was no fan of in the 991.1 for similar reasons. It, too, is great on the 992. Invisible in use.
I do, however, want to try the 992 Carrera 7MT. I am very curious, as I tend to like simple cars. But then "technology cars" are done well, I like them. My first hours in a 992 with Sport PASM, PDCC, and RAS suggest its chassis is done very well indeed…
Thank you.
901911
02-06-2019, 02:20 PM
#112
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=901911;15619506]
Pete- Thank you for your prompt and thoughtful reply. I have added RAS to my configuration, but will do without PDCC. My only caveat to ordering the car is that I am afraid I might get bored with it, just like I did with my 991.2 (4S, PDK). I tried the 7 speed manual transmission in a 991.2 GTS and found it unsatisfactory: These turbo engines have so much torque that changing gears manually adds little to the driving experience. Above all, I felt that the 7 speed manual transmission is not a great transmission and that these cars are really designed for a pdk. The electronics (automatic handbrake, start-stop systems etc.) just work better with a pdk. It is for this reason that I hope to get a more direct and visceral experience in the 992, mainly due to the improved steering. Do you think this is a realistic expectation?
Thank you.
901911
^ You are welcome, and I cannot fault your logic on any count. Hard to say, as "satisfactory" is, in the end, going to be extremely personal.
I find your comments about PDK vs 7MT very interesting, as I come at it a slightly different way: Even as someone who prefers three pedals so strongly that I can overlook the (accurate) points you make regarding vehicle integration, I have to say the merger between the turbo 3.0 and PDK is masterful—and perhaps one of Porsche's more satisfying powertrains. I was blown away by how much I liked a 991.2 Carrera T with RAS and PDK, even if it wasn't the one I'd order personally. It was so efficient in its work on a wildly challenging back road that it earned a great deal of my respect and was a lot of fun, leaving me to concentrate on and enjoy a great chassis. My only caveat for you is whether you have already owned and lived with PDK and got bored. That's what happened to me with my one car with PDK, a 987.2 Cayman S. It sat around a lot, though it was brilliant on track. And, during a day with the 992, both my co-driver and I noted how PDK is effectively perfect now, but wished for a manual anyway. I do think a 992 C2S might be a bit more playful for you, and thus maybe less boring...and have to go back to how seamless the latest generations of PDK are with the twin-turbo 3.0.
Pete- Thank you for your prompt and thoughtful reply. I have added RAS to my configuration, but will do without PDCC. My only caveat to ordering the car is that I am afraid I might get bored with it, just like I did with my 991.2 (4S, PDK). I tried the 7 speed manual transmission in a 991.2 GTS and found it unsatisfactory: These turbo engines have so much torque that changing gears manually adds little to the driving experience. Above all, I felt that the 7 speed manual transmission is not a great transmission and that these cars are really designed for a pdk. The electronics (automatic handbrake, start-stop systems etc.) just work better with a pdk. It is for this reason that I hope to get a more direct and visceral experience in the 992, mainly due to the improved steering. Do you think this is a realistic expectation?
Thank you.
901911
I find your comments about PDK vs 7MT very interesting, as I come at it a slightly different way: Even as someone who prefers three pedals so strongly that I can overlook the (accurate) points you make regarding vehicle integration, I have to say the merger between the turbo 3.0 and PDK is masterful—and perhaps one of Porsche's more satisfying powertrains. I was blown away by how much I liked a 991.2 Carrera T with RAS and PDK, even if it wasn't the one I'd order personally. It was so efficient in its work on a wildly challenging back road that it earned a great deal of my respect and was a lot of fun, leaving me to concentrate on and enjoy a great chassis. My only caveat for you is whether you have already owned and lived with PDK and got bored. That's what happened to me with my one car with PDK, a 987.2 Cayman S. It sat around a lot, though it was brilliant on track. And, during a day with the 992, both my co-driver and I noted how PDK is effectively perfect now, but wished for a manual anyway. I do think a 992 C2S might be a bit more playful for you, and thus maybe less boring...and have to go back to how seamless the latest generations of PDK are with the twin-turbo 3.0.
02-06-2019, 03:18 PM
#113
I'm now considering chopping in my 991,2GT3 for a 992S. I'm only contemplating this as i have been told it will help me get a 992GT3 allocation early next year. I was all set for a Manual however as no date has been give for one or a base model i have only a 992S PDK to consider.
I really loved the RAS on my 991,2GTS PDK and will get it on the 992..I'm really curious on whether the test 992s were EU spec with the mandatory GPF fitted or US versions..If EU how did it sound compared to the 991.2 as this really bugs me..
I'm really drawn towards the new colors such as Dolomite silver,Aventure green or one of the blues..Which of these in your opinion suited the 992s lines best.?
I really loved the RAS on my 991,2GTS PDK and will get it on the 992..I'm really curious on whether the test 992s were EU spec with the mandatory GPF fitted or US versions..If EU how did it sound compared to the 991.2 as this really bugs me..
I'm really drawn towards the new colors such as Dolomite silver,Aventure green or one of the blues..Which of these in your opinion suited the 992s lines best.?
02-06-2019, 03:51 PM
#114
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'm now considering chopping in my 991,2GT3 for a 992S. I'm only contemplating this as i have been told it will help me get a 992GT3 allocation early next year. I was all set for a Manual however as no date has been give for one or a base model i have only a 992S PDK to consider.
I really loved the RAS on my 991,2GTS PDK and will get it on the 992..I'm really curious on whether the test 992s were EU spec with the mandatory GPF fitted or US versions..If EU how did it sound compared to the 991.2 as this really bugs me..
I'm really drawn towards the new colors such as Dolomite silver,Aventure green or one of the blues..Which of these in your opinion suited the 992s lines best.?
I really loved the RAS on my 991,2GTS PDK and will get it on the 992..I'm really curious on whether the test 992s were EU spec with the mandatory GPF fitted or US versions..If EU how did it sound compared to the 991.2 as this really bugs me..
I'm really drawn towards the new colors such as Dolomite silver,Aventure green or one of the blues..Which of these in your opinion suited the 992s lines best.?
Can't help on color, as they didn't have Aventurine—a color I too am very interested in. So far, I am not such a fan of the 992 in bright colors—with silver being the one exception for reasons I cannot explain. But, from my time around the 992 as well as the Christo article, it's all about dark colors so far—with Night Blue on Graphite Blue leather being my pick for now—though my predilection for green keeps me wondering how Agate or Aventurine—or Black!—would look with one of the new green interiors.
02-06-2019, 05:13 PM
#115
Rennlist Member
The car I tested was an EU car, so it had the particulate filters. Sound in the car was better than in my 991.2 Carrera—being a bit more vocal with better sounds—and better, imo, than PSE-equipped 991.2 3.0 cars because they got rid of that synthetic, count-the-pops-because-it's-always-the-same-number from the exhaust. Some present complained that the filters mean the cars are too quiet from the outside, but I view that as an advantage. I want the sounds for me, with less sound for others. .
02-06-2019, 05:15 PM
#116
The car I tested was an EU car, so it had the particulate filters. Sound in the car was better than in my 991.2 Carrera—being a bit more vocal with better sounds—and better, imo, than PSE-equipped 991.2 3.0 cars because they got rid of that synthetic, count-the-pops-because-it's-always-the-same-number from the exhaust. Some present complained that the filters mean the cars are too quiet from the outside, but I view that as an advantage. I want the sounds for me, with less sound for others. Lower profile is a bonus, in my view, but that's a personal choice—and the good news for US customers who like a louder exhaust is they're gonna get a more vocal car.
Can't help on color, as they didn't have Aventurine—a color I too am very interested in. So far, I am not such a fan of the 992 in bright colors—with silver being the one exception for reasons I cannot explain. But, from my time around the 992 as well as the Christo article, it's all about dark colors so far—with Night Blue on Graphite Blue leather being my pick for now—though my predilection for green keeps me wondering how Agate or Aventurine—or Black!—would look with one of the new green interiors.
Can't help on color, as they didn't have Aventurine—a color I too am very interested in. So far, I am not such a fan of the 992 in bright colors—with silver being the one exception for reasons I cannot explain. But, from my time around the 992 as well as the Christo article, it's all about dark colors so far—with Night Blue on Graphite Blue leather being my pick for now—though my predilection for green keeps me wondering how Agate or Aventurine—or Black!—would look with one of the new green interiors.
As i'm in the UK the news on the GPF is a mix of good and bad.As i'm currently bored i've just configured a 992 in Aventurine with the Exclusive 5 spoke rims and yellow PCCBs..On the interior i've done Sports plus seats in Sports tex with Crayon stitching and Paldao trim..I must say it looks absolutely amazing..!
Taking into account the GPFs is the expensive PSE more essential than it would be in the US.
02-06-2019, 06:53 PM
#117
Important question. I hope we get an answer soon.
02-06-2019, 07:05 PM
#118
The car I tested was an EU car, so it had the particulate filters. Sound in the car was better than in my 991.2 Carrera—being a bit more vocal with better sounds—and better, imo, than PSE-equipped 991.2 3.0 cars because they got rid of that synthetic, count-the-pops-because-it's-always-the-same-number from the exhaust. Some present complained that the filters mean the cars are too quiet from the outside, but I view that as an advantage. I want the sounds for me, with less sound for others. Lower profile is a bonus, in my view, but that's a personal choice—and the good news for US customers who like a louder exhaust is they're gonna get a more vocal car.
I suspect you don't have enough seat time in other 991.2 variants so the comparisons to other .2's other than your base aren't all that accurate. The backfires from the PSE on the .2 range anywhere from 2-6 times. With sport cats or bypass pipes.... You should hear that for yourself. Cars with PSE/X51 have a deeper better sounding exhaust. From what I've heard there's no difference in sound that's clearly noticeable in the 992. Perhaps some extra tubing in cabin to draw more sounds from the engine.
Is 385 too much now, with the new 992? Just curious.
02-06-2019, 11:05 PM
#119
Your 991.2 has the oval exhaust. It almost makes almost no sound at all. Especially from the outside. That means that almost any car will be more vocal and better with sounds than your base with no exhaust.
I suspect you don't have enough seat time in other 991.2 variants so the comparisons to other .2's other than your base aren't all that accurate. The backfires from the PSE on the .2 range anywhere from 2-6 times. With sport cats or bypass pipes.... You should hear that for yourself. Cars with PSE/X51 have a deeper better sounding exhaust. From what I've heard there's no difference in sound that's clearly noticeable in the 992. Perhaps some extra tubing in cabin to draw more sounds from the engine.
Is 385 too much now, with the new 992? Just curious.
I suspect you don't have enough seat time in other 991.2 variants so the comparisons to other .2's other than your base aren't all that accurate. The backfires from the PSE on the .2 range anywhere from 2-6 times. With sport cats or bypass pipes.... You should hear that for yourself. Cars with PSE/X51 have a deeper better sounding exhaust. From what I've heard there's no difference in sound that's clearly noticeable in the 992. Perhaps some extra tubing in cabin to draw more sounds from the engine.
Is 385 too much now, with the new 992? Just curious.
seriously dude?
Stout is the editor of the most prestigious Porsche magazine and one of, if not the, leading reviewer.
i suspect he has plenty of seat time
02-07-2019, 01:58 AM
#120
Your 991.2 has the oval exhaust. It almost makes almost no sound at all. Especially from the outside. That means that almost any car will be more vocal and better with sounds than your base with no exhaust.
I suspect you don't have enough seat time in other 991.2 variants so the comparisons to other .2's other than your base aren't all that accurate. The backfires from the PSE on the .2 range anywhere from 2-6 times. With sport cats or bypass pipes.... You should hear that for yourself. Cars with PSE/X51 have a deeper better sounding exhaust. From what I've heard there's no difference in sound that's clearly noticeable in the 992. Perhaps some extra tubing in cabin to draw more sounds from the engine.
Is 385 too much now, with the new 992? Just curious.
I suspect you don't have enough seat time in other 991.2 variants so the comparisons to other .2's other than your base aren't all that accurate. The backfires from the PSE on the .2 range anywhere from 2-6 times. With sport cats or bypass pipes.... You should hear that for yourself. Cars with PSE/X51 have a deeper better sounding exhaust. From what I've heard there's no difference in sound that's clearly noticeable in the 992. Perhaps some extra tubing in cabin to draw more sounds from the engine.
Is 385 too much now, with the new 992? Just curious.
BTW, all the 991.2 variants sound like crap and all the aftermarket stuff just makes it louder crap. Anything they did on the 992 would be an improvement, particularly if they got rid of all the phony decel pops and crackles.