stout

Spent an unexpected day on track at Sears Point on Wednesday at the invitation of Merit Partners, which is funny because I ordered a GT4 with track days in mind but didn't have time for more than 1-2 while I ordered the Carrera without track days in mind given my experience with the GT4 in this chapter of life.

But, with unsettled weather and a gray morning, I elected to take the 991.2 over the 914. Was a bit bummed with that choice when I pulled in only to see a seriously clean 1972 911E in Albert Blue with MD plates, lined up to run on track. In original paint, no less. Can you say hero status?







The day was a lot of fun, particularly after driving the 992 on the big track at Valencia a couple of weeks ago.

A few takeaways:

• This was my first time in a 991.2 Carrera on a proper track, as the driving event where it excelled in Tenerife was a closed rally stage. It was also good on the road and an autocross, but I was curious about how it would do on a big track.
• Day started with a slalom exercise and a "techniques of a corner" exercise, I think to sort out the run groups. The Carrera was very good in both, but its lack of an LSD quickly became apparent in the slalom, with the inside rear lighting up. Carrera T, S with Sport PASM, or GTS would fix this...
• I ended up in a group with a very well-driven 458 and GT350R, and while it was lead-follow ( ), the instructor was maxed out and while there were some spots I would have liked to move a bit quicker, the pace was working all three cars pretty hard. And the mere Carrera, despite being well down on hp, more than held its own at that pace. Thank you, peak torque @ 1700rpm on up with a lot of weight over the tires that matter off a corner, not to mention superb brake balance and PCCB.
• The car was a lot of fun on track, and super approachable. Oddly less capable than the GT4 and yet more approachable and more entertaining in some ways.
• As I suspected, car is a bit soft. It has TechArt springs, DSC V3, factory 5mm spacers all around, and the OE Michelins, and while it was very good out there—particularly for a "mass-market" street 911—even with the springs and DSC I found myself wanting 10-30% more spring with damper adjustments to match. Maybe a touch more rear bar, also. I think that setup would keep a lot—if not most—of the streetability while adding considerably to the car's performance when you're pushing it. Would be curious to play with this, and may move to the H&R sleeves on the PASM dampers in time to experiment with this. Or, you can just buy a Carrera t.
• One can begin to see the reason PAG might have gone to the digital dash in the 992, as I found toggling between the screens I wanted—Sport Chrono for lap timing, tire pressures for getting those dialed in and watching heat, and vital temps—on the single display in the gauge cluster annoying on track where it doesn't bother me much on the street. Also, a reminder of how annoying/distracting it is to have to time yourself at the start/finish with a stalk, particularly if you want to view said other screens. A trigger is definitely the way to go.
• 4WSS+ held my body in place well enough for a very occasional trackday, but if I was going to track the car regularly, I'd be interested in having a knee brace made for the driver's door. Big, and just the right amount of firm/soft. Bugged me maybe 3-5% of the time, so not a big complaint, but…
• The oft-derided 7MT never presented a problem in the heat of it, and the gearing in 2-3-4 was superb. This, too, would be better in a T/S/GTS.
• I was genuinely surprised to see the Carrera keep pace with the cars that it did, at least one of which was on R-compounds and both of which had quick drivers. We were running 2:03s and probably a bit under (see hassles with Sport Chrono stalk above), limited by the lead car. I suspect with the 991.2 Carrera exactly as is, 1:50s wouldn't at all be hard to dip into. Add springs + R-compound tires and there's more there—would be curious to see how much. If I wonder how the Carrera would stack up against the Ferrari and Mustang with that setup (or, without a lead car), I suspect a T/S/GTS on R compounds and with a LSD would be on another level. Then again, Sears is a handling track, which tips things in favor of the 911—particularly with its rear weight bias and ability to put the power down.
• So how was it, doing a track day in the "old" 991.2 ten to fifteen days after the 992S? It isn't a fair fight, as the 992S had RAS, PDCC, PDK, and the benefit of time/development/money—but if you gave me the keys to either for a track session, I'd take the 992. The new car makes big strides in staying flatter, and was capable of giving a 991.2 GT3 RS a pretty hard time at Valencia in the hands of multiple drivers (none of whom were as good as the driver in the RS)—mainly due to the 3.0 engine's torque but also due to the advancements with the chassis. Very curious to try a 992 without all of the performance options. But…give me the keys to either to drive home? The 992 still has some work to do on me there, as I still find the 991.2 utterly irresistible as a street machine for its blend of performance, comfort, aesthetics, and (relative) simplicity. Paint it dark green, or make it a T, and the deal is sealed…

Special thanks to tstafford, who gave me target tire pressures of 30F, 34R. These worked well once I got them down there, and just as you predicted, the Michelins got greasy after 6~ laps (7-8 in my case).

groundhog

Good write - up.

Couple of thoughts - I wouldn't put too much store in the 992 S being able to hang with the current GT3 RS. If it was a Porsche works driver in the RS (or former) they were taking it easy

If you think about this for a moment, the ring times released by Porsche are marginally slower than the outgoing 991.2 GTS which is definitely slower than the GT3 RS (3s/per minute - roughly). The 991 Series 2 GT3 RS is a very, very accomplished and dialled in track capable car.

In terms of the 991.2 - I have said this many times and I believe we are in close agreement - the performance fruit offered by Porsche (for the humble Carrera) has become a game changer e.g. the addition of RAS (increased slip angle), PDCC (maintenance of contact patch), sports chrono ("race" gear change stratgegy plus locked down engine mounts), PDK aligned with PTV-E (plus) and SPASM add up to substantial differences from the base model and the T.

A car with out these features is a fantastic sports car but not necessarily a fantastic performance car.

Tires, tires, tires The pilot 4S are a great street tire - probably the best one out there. However, on 19s they offer more comfort thanks to the slightly larger sidewall. On track this flips into more roll and less certainty. More roll, near always means a bit less grip and loss of slip angle.

Added to this - camber, camber, camber as a general rule the base and S in the 991 series II had minimal camber up - front ~ - 0.3 or less IIRC. The GTS is stock form moved that up to -1.1 and in the GT3 that moved up to -1.3 (again IIRC). These aren't subtle differences from a cornering and feel perspective . (there are good reasons for this e.g. standing water relative to tire type and contact patch).

I think you nailed when you said the 991.2 base was a great street machine (in my language, sports car) - However, from my perspective since the 991 series II, Porsche have offered two options a "sports car" and a "performance car" (with all the performance fruit). Going forward, its my view that Porsche should offer all of the performance fruit for all 911 models.

tstafford

Thanks for the write-up (and the shout out). Sounds like a great day.

Your comment about the GT4 vs. the 991.2 makes a ton of sense to me. Approachable vs. capable. I think the 991.2 is a superb option for the occasional track visitor. It's fairly easy to feel fast in the car and enjoy the experience.

Rennolazine

slvr993

Great write up Pete! These cars are phenomenal for the guys driving mostly street with maybe a few track days. I took my T to the track last year. I run in the highest run group with some serious cars and the T surprised a lot of them. Its nothing like a track dedicated car or even my last 2018 GT3 ( which is what I'm used to on track), it rolled more then I would like and the Michelins 4s aren't as good as the PSC2 in my opinion and nothing like an R compound. But for a base model, bone stock car ( high temp fluid and some camber) it was a blast and performed incredibly well. These cars really can hang with much "bigger" cars. The RAS and the gobs of Torque right out of the corners is key. The GT3's and Vettes pull on the straights and they are all around quicker of course, but I had more than one Corvette and GT3 guy ask what I've done to my car. I let them by on the long back straight and then stick to them like glue around the rest of the track, losing a little ground in some sections and making it back on corner exit. I was very surprised as I wasn't expecting it to do quite that well. It didn't feel as composed as a more Track oriented/dedicated car, but it was getting it done without any real drama.

As a street car - these base model Porsches are exceptional. As an occasional track car they are also hard to beat. For serious track use there is lots to do, but then it wouldn't be a great street car anymore.

seis-speed

stout

Thanks!

Wrong. A couple of engineers noted the instructors in the 991.2 RSs (not works RSR or 919 drivers, but no slouches!) stated their surprise at how hard they had to work to stay ahead of a few of the Americans (this is not a new discussion point, as there are currently a few American journalists who run at a serious pace). Perhaps more importantly, I went out for a ride in one of the GT3 RSs to gauge it for myself. Was there more there? Sure. But not a lot...and a lot less than I would have thought, too.

• 991.2 Carrera launch saw me surprised to see a C2 7MT give a 991.1 RS a hard time up a closed rally stage, but sure the RS would walk if not run away on a real track.
• 992 Carrera S launch saw me shocked to see a C2S keep an RS honest on a real track, one Porsche used to introduce the 918.

The equalizer is the emissions-driven turbo 3.0 and its torque. Now, had you put Weber into the RS, and the instructors into the 992s, I suspect it would have become interesting. After one ride, I could tell Weber really is on another level…

I suspect we will see those Ring times improve with more testing/better conditions, and tires too. And the Ring is a pretty bad indicator of other tracks, in my opinion. While it's varied, for sure, it is its own kettle of fish. My guess (and it's only that) is that a lot of the "average" GT3 and GT3 RS drivers out there are in for a shock if a well-driven 992 C2S shows up at the Glen, Sears Point, Laguna, etc.

On this we definitely agree. The challenge to the GT team has little to do with experience (they have that nailed right now, especially after the ride in the RS and from recent time in the R, etc) and everything to do with speed. The turbo 3.0's accessible torque changes everything, pushing the GT3's advantage into higher speeds where horsepower and aero come into play—and everyone agrees the cars don't need to get faster on the street. And yet they will…because no one is brave enough to back down, and there is that master we all serve: progress. Interesting "problems" to sort through…

Thanks again for the tips! And the above is spot on.

Now that I've come off the high, I have to say that, while I want to make some tweaks to the suspension for the road (a bit more spring, maybe a rear ARB, and—if it's a longterm keeper—an LSD) that would also benefit the car on track a bit, I am sure I don't want to mod the car for track work. It's too good as a street car. If a future chapter has more track days than this one—and more than chapters past—a different car is in order. Although I do like the idea of going back out on track with a child seat in the back. I think it gave the Ferrari 458 a complex. Mustang driver mentioned it with a big grin, too.

You're gonna have a BALL.

A Carrera T with some fluid and a set of R-compound tires would have been a beast.

Fully agreed! The thing that makes them better on the street makes them a bit worse on the track, but the roll and tires also add a little challenge I didn't mind—and the cars punch well above their weight even in stock form.

And isn't that the point—to infect you with our affliction?

rosenbergendo

Were the non-S brakes on the Carrera T and issue at the track?

groundhog

I just wanted to pick this apart a little more - "A couple of engineers noted the instructors in the 991.2 RSs (not works RSR or 919 drivers, but no slouches!) stated their surprise at how hard they had to work to stay ahead of a few of the Americans (this is not a new discussion point, as there are currently a few American journalists who run at a serious pace). Perhaps more importantly, I went out for a ride in one of the GT3 RSs to gauge it for myself. Was there more there? Sure. But not a lot...and a lot less than I would have thought, too."

The first part of this suggests both cars are relatively easy to drive at say 90%.

The second sentence is nuanced but important. I agree the differences will likely appear small and the cars seem quite close in terms of relative distance - however, these small differences ultimately compound over a number of laps. Obviously that shouldn't be a surprise as the RS is more performance orientated, better tires, better brakes better aero.

My .2GTS was set up for full competition last season and I chased a 991.1 RS for most of that year - the differences weren't large but they added up. For 2 or 3 laps I could keep up but after that he would slowly get away - its infuriating (official timed sprint racing).

So in my view there is a little shade e.g. from a sports car perspective the differences are relatively small and the small distance gaps immaterial, but from a performance car perspective they add up to be large. I got my 3s a lap difference from the last event of the season, this particular person had moved over to the .2 RS - and to be honest it really wasn't a contest (although for one or two laps it may have appeared close) - for reference he put a lot of this down to the Cup 2 Rs (which he decided to blow off in one morning). I have to say I was very impressed with that car (bone stock except for brake pads and safety e.g. fire suppression, full cage etc)

Re the .2 keeping up with the RS up hills and on switchbacks - not surprised by this, its the rally car recipe - turbo engines deliver a huge amount of mid range torque and power (relatively), they eat up hills and twisty roads.

I agree the 3l is a key part of the closeness - its an immensely tractable engine, a really fine piece of work from Porsche. From my perspective it allows the Carrera to be a performance car or a sports car (depending on the options chosen) and thats a great outcome for Porsche enthusiasts.

Hopefully you got to spend some time with Mark Webber - top bloke, very glad Porsche took him on as an ambassador.

Glad you took the time to post the various reports and reviews of the 992 (and others in the past) - its important to get past the stylistic changes and dig behind the scene and outline the differences in engineering that deliver specific results.

jnolan

tstafford

stout

Good analysis, I think. Range might be 85-95% depending on driver, though it's hard to know what other testers were leaving on the table, and similarly difficult to know what instructors were leaving on the table. I would guess they not only hold the advantage in skill, but also in knowledge of the car they're driving all day as well as the track itself. My take was: among the faster pairings, there was a margin, but not a huge one—so 5-15% is a good guess. I was probably around 10%~ on track in places I felt safe to explore a bit, with zero desire to add further risk there or elsewhere. Upside is…?

Yes, though we were out a few laps at a time. I guess what I observed is: With two drivers at a reasonable level > higher level, and depending on who is driving what, these cars can run together for a bit. How long? Not sure. Summer tires are going to go off, and aero makes things easier on the 991.2 RS driver. Torque makes things easier on the 992S driver. RS is the better track car for sure (what it's made for), but the surprise this time around was how the consumer/street-oriented 992S kept a recently released RS honest on a big track. I really wasn't expecting that, and it sounds like a few of the instructors weren't, either. Still, I'd treat this as a mild observation for now...the real confirmation/measure of this will be as the cars filter into the world and we see them at track days, etc—with a rather big assumption: That you see the right drivers in each, or at least indicative drivers in each.

From tracking a GT4 on Cups and then tracking a Carrera on P4Ss last week, I saw that tstafford is exactly right: the summer Michelins get greasy at about 6-7 laps even if you dial into good targeted pressures and keep them there—handing an even bigger advantage to a car on Cups. And if the Carrera driver isn't managing the pressures…it's game over. So tires alone are gonna work against the 992 when we see them show up at track days in stock form, and then you add softer springs and less aero. But sounds like your GTS was very well set up—which tells me the RS driver knew how to use his machinery. Also, the 991.1 RS is still a beast on track—it made a big leap over the 997 RS series cars. 991.2 RS adds a lot more spring...getting into Cup levels.

Can't argue with any of the above—Porsche isn't stupid and knows how to get the gaps between its models right in making the models right for those gaps...but this 3.0 offers some new challenges in that regard due to the torque curve. These aren't bad times to be living in, as a ride in the RS same day reminded me. That noise...

And yes, Webber is good people!

Haven't seen much either. RAS presents some interesting opportunities with toe & wear for obvious reasons, and I suspect Porsche has used up a fair it of those opportunities…would be curious to hear from those tracking with it, as well as TPC, BGB, etc. Can dig into this further next time I am with the right people. I have wondered in the past about those possibilities, but not sure I dug into it. Reviewing an interview with the suspension engineer behind the 992 right now, trying to decide if we will publish in 000.

JAhmed

Great write up as always, Pete. After 1300+ track miles in mine, I can't say that I've really ever wanted more from a daily driver

groundhog

Toe is total toe - all RAS equipped, front caster is ~ 8.0+/- 0.3/0.45
For the .2 GT3 manufacturer ranges are front - Front camber -1.33 to -1.27, toe 0.0 to 0.04 -----Rear camber -1.33 to -1.27; toe 0.16 to 0.24
For the .2 GTS manufacturer ranges are front - Front camber -1.2 to -1.1, toe -0.03 to 0.07-----Rear camber -1.55 to -1.45; toe 0.15 to 0.25
For the .2 S manufacturer ranges are front - Front camber -0.25 to 0.05, toe -0.03 to 0.07-----Rear camber -1.45 to -1.15; toe 0.15 to 0.25

The optimal setting appears to be about -1.8 front and -2.2 rear on MPSC2N1 (personal preference for track and r.rally)

stout

^ Great info! Thanks!