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So R tires on the 992 and I am sure they will lower it with another few. You also have to take into consideration that it was PCCB (carbon brakes) on the GTS and it was noted in the original test article how much of a later brake point and higher speed they could carry. I don’t know if the 7:25 992 had PCCB.
Here is the original article - I think its important to understand the context
The 7:22 is real CG quotes it in the article . I think its important to understand this in the context of the 450PS Carrera e.g. is there any real meaningful difference. By the same token these times are blisteringly fast.........so does it matter?
I'm really enjoying Stouts commentary but I do note that Porsche progressively up camber on the the front wheels as you go through the badges (e.g. 991 Series II) - this has a noticeable impact on steering feel, turn in and the sense of understeer. For example -0.1 on the S, -1.1 on the GTS and -1.3 on the GT3. I would be very interested to know from Stout if he has that info for the new 450PS Carrera
As an afterthought the P Zero N1 have a bit of a bad rap on RL - the reality is they are a road tire, however, when fresh they are capable of high levels of grip all be it for a relatively short period of time.
Thank you again for taking the time to write this and share here! I don’t know of anyone else in your position doing that.
Also so for the simple and modest, but still clear description on things. It is easy on the eye.
Found these Sport Tex pictures on Autoblog today, From a Car they tested. Can’t wait to see that combination irl.
The wood comment I found interesting... have had the same notion but almost doubted my mind and thinking it can’t be true, but it does actually look good.
Another thing I’ve been wondering about is the “chromed” molding around the side windows on a silver. Seen several official photos with it but here’s another one of those wood like situations. Did you see any and what was your take?
Thanks again,
P
Love these seats. I am hoping they are as great in person as they are in pics. I ordered these with the 4 ways on my 992 build. The 18 ways annoy me, too much fiddling to find what I think is a comfortable spot! I have found over the years that sometimes less is more.
992 on the big track
Valencia is a great circuit, with a mix of bends, a high-speed front straight, and enough elevation change to keep things interesting. We didn't get a ton of track time, but we did get more laps than we sometimes do, and it was enough to get some impressions down. First thing: The 992 Carrera S is seriously fast. As stated previously in an answer to a question, the instructors were driving 991.2 GT3 RSs—and I got the sense the instructor ahead of me was working his RS fairly hard (though not to the limit). It wasn't that hard to catch up, and I know I was leaving bags of time here and there all the way around the circuit between unfamiliarity with the circuit (it's been 5~ years since my last ten~ laps there in a 918), jet lag, and my own limits when it comes to risk/reward. Where it was most notable: Out of corners, where the 3.0 had zero trouble keeping up with the 4.0. An engineer later noted that one of the instructors said he was having to work his RS hard to stay ahead, and this was in a private conversation where that wasn't the subject but rather an aside to the idea that this new Carrera represents a starting point for the next GT3 and Turbo, etc. Second thing: The Carrera S is fun enough and then some for the occasional or even semi-regular track day. It is a bit soft for track work, even with Sport PASM and PDCC, but only a bit—and it makes sense that this 911 leaves space for more track-oriented models while sticking to what it is: A 911 built for street use. PDK works brilliantly on track, as do the standard brakes (big reds) and Pirelli tires—though I did have a bit less confidence in the brake pedal towards the end of the session (no fade, though, and I probably could have been a bit nicer to the brakes). Some other quick thoughts after only a few good laps: High-speed stability is superb given the lack of a big, fixed rear wing. Squat/dive/roll are well attenuated...to the point you have to think about the fact you aren't dealing with them. As it was on the street, PDCC is really well sorted—now "organic" in the sense that you don't notice it at work and wouldn't know it's there. I need to drive cars with and without down the right roads to be sure, but I think PDCC may have just moved from a "skip" to "buy" for me. Traction out of turns is quite good, and, again, the new Pirellis didn't fall off while getting run ragged. The adaptive sport seats are quite good on track—better than their predecessors and quite possibly better than the sublime (at least for my frame) 4WSS+ in the 981/991 era. What the car isn't is visceral—if the measuring stick is a GT3. For a reminder course, I asked to ride along in a GT3 RS with one of the instructors—and was immediately reminded of why people (and I) love the normally aspirated flat sixes from Flacht. The scream. The drama. The absolutely dialed chassis, a road car that...just. shouldn't. be. that. good. on. track. And people leave them in the garage? For real? But man was he working that thing to keep it ahead of the 992S. I think he had a bit more to go, but he was hardly cruising…
Second and last ride of the day was back in a 992, this time with Mark Webber. Yes, I decided to stand in line because…well, why wouldn't you. The car he chose to use for hot laps? C4S with PCCB, like the 992 Carrera S he just ordered. Turns out he likes AWD cars for dailies, and this will do until the next Turbo is out. As expected, it was a blinding lap, and here's a driver I'd get into a car again with anytime. Smooth, predictable, sharing something with you rather than showing you something (always my cue to get out), and using all of the car with a subtlety of inputs I've seen in few drivers. When I was watching him from the pits, he kept showing up in parts of the track well before I expected him to. From inside the car, it was a pleasant ride in the park. That's when you know. And the C4S was up to the challenge 4-5 passenger rides in.
I feel like I am forgetting some things, so consider these a few first thoughts jotted down. Feel free to ask questions, as I have some I need to answer anyway!
'Night…
pete
Pete, great info. Really appreciate your insights. I have had all flavors of 911s over the years and gradually shifted to only GT cars because I track them a lot, and I like the drama from the NA engines. I stepped up to order a new 992 S because I missed having a daily driver 911, so I was thrilled to see these comments. Euro Delivery this fall with the usual stops at various tracks has me quite excited! Thanks again.
Pete, thanks for making me have to work late! Caught your post on IG this afternoon, then of course I had to put my work aside for a few minutes and hop over here to read more about your ride & impressions.......45 minutes later......still have some work to finsh.
Thanks for the diversion.
Amazing detail. Thank you. If you have any more pics of a white car from the launch that'd be awesome.
Will look at doing a photo dump if a) people are interested and b) Rennlist doesn't waste my time as it has with photo loading lately. Seems buggy, and other users tell me the same. Photos would include documentary images not meant to artistic but for my own use as well as press images. I stopped carrying a big DSLR to this stuff a while back.
Originally Posted by Northquest
Thank you again for taking the time to write this and share here! I don’t know of anyone else in your position doing that.
Also so for the simple and modest, but still clear description on things. It is easy on the eye.
Found these Sport Tex pictures on Autoblog today, From a Car they tested. Can’t wait to see that combination irl.
The wood comment I found interesting... have had the same notion but almost doubted my mind and thinking it can’t be true, but it does actually look good.
Another thing I’ve been wondering about is the “chromed” molding around the side windows on a silver. Seen several official photos with it but here’s another one of those wood like situations. Did you see any and what was your take?
Well, that's bugging...because I literally walked over to a representative after reading your question and asked if there was a car with that interior I could take a peek at. And I did so because I thought I caught a glimpse of a 992 with an odd, checkerboard pattern on its seats. Ah well, glad you found these! Will say these photos only reinforce that passing impression from a glimpse (internal thought: Hmm, that's a bit 997 Speedster-ish, which means it isn't for me). Need to see it again, and in different colors, but I think I prefer the non-checker pattern Sport-Tex in the 991. But this is gonna be a personal thing.
I wish I could offer you some thoughts on the bright window molding from this trip, but I cannot. I suspect it's also one of those things that gets very tricky depending on color and trim, just as it is with the 991. Should have ordered it on my first 991, but didn't. Glad I didn't order it on my second one...
Originally Posted by groundhog
Stout, enjoyed the level of detail and insight - thanks for making the time to keep the unwashed informed
Were the vehicles you tested fitted with RAS? The reason I ask is, this single option makes a very significant difference to the 991.2 when one has it pinned.
I also agree with your comments on the GT3 - Largely I put this down to the quality of the 9A2, its power - torque delivery and RAS. The GT3 almost represents a different market segment for those that want a specific emotive experience and for some buyers that makes a lot sense. Performance wise the gap really is down to the driver and tires these days (vis a vis say GTS and GT3)
With regard to the PDK the shorter gearing allows more force at the contact patch thereby nullifying the current GT3s gearing advantage (may apply to the new S and will definitely apply to the new GTS).
I also agree with your comment on the weight, my GTS weighs in at about 3340 lbs or thereabouts and this impacts on tires on track, let the rears cool off too much and you have every chance of rolling the sidewalls.
Great review, very fair, balanced and objective.
Afterthought - I went and had a look at few interior pics and movies of the interior and was simply left with a feeling it could be the interior from any generic higher end car - the seats in particular look quite large and thick. Contrast those with say, the simple sport plus seats in alcantara - the latter looks and feels like it's from a sports car the former from a Bimmer or Merc (thats my impression).
Afterthought 2: I noticed you mentioned the 7:25 ring time isn't that what we'd expect from a 450PS Carrera given Porsche and Auto Motor Und Sport did times of 7:22 and 7:24 in the outgoing 991 Series II GTS - so doesn't that beg the question "why haven't the stated improvements had a significant impact on performance over the broadly equivalent engine set up in the outgoing model" . Basically like for like the performance gains appear very marginal.
Wanted to confirm this before speaking on it, and now have that confirmation as well as one better: the actual spec of the car I used for the road test...
Racing Yellow
Standard Interior in Black incl. Leather Seats
Sport Package
Sport Exhaust System with Tailpipes in Silver Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur
Sport Chrono Package
Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) (Lowered 10mm)
8-speed Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC)
Rear Axle Steering
Power Steering Plus
Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB)
20"/21" Carrera Classic Wheels
Wheel Center Caps with Colored Porsche Crest
LED-Matrix Design Headlights with Porsche Dynamic Light System Plus (PDLS+)
Lane Change Assist (LCA)
Adaptive Sport Seats Plus (18-way) with Memory Package
Heated Multifunction GT Sport Steering Wheel
Roof Lining in Alcantara®
Interior Trim in Carbon Fiber
Vehicle price * $147,810
As to your point re: the 991.2 GTS times, the gains are in line with what we've seen in the past, with standard Carreras matching or beating the outgoing S (for instance), but in this case we start with the Carrera S matching or beating the 991.2 GTS (I think the press will beat the 7:25 time, as may the factory in time). And then you bring out better tires...
Originally Posted by Northquest
Gebhard, test editor from Sport Auto ( sister magazine of AM&S), did a 7:23,77 on R tires.
As above, tires are worth a lot!! And Christian ain't slow… He's also, a very (!) nice guy—particularly in a tight spot. Like being stopped by the Spanish police 3-4 times on the same day. Something about a helo scrambled out of Barcelona years ago to catch some slideways hooligans (not us). They never did get us, but they eventually ticketed a colleague. The "James Bond" trip, as it's known within Weissach. Good times, good memories. Coulda been a lot different.
My take, after driving a 991.2 Carrera 7MT in CA a day before heading to Spain to drive the 992 Carrera S: Its NA-ish character is a lot like the old 370-hp engine while its power is a lot like the outgoing 450-hp GTS engine—a win-win. Would like to spend more time with it before signing off on that as my final verdict, but I think it's a stunning engine. Sounds better, too. Particularly appreciate what appears to be an elimination of the predictable PSE fakery in terms of pops...which you could count and expect the same number each time.
Originally Posted by Noah Fect
Ditto, these posts are both insightful and informative.
Thanks! Skipping attempts to craft them and using them as a bit of a note pad, and really enjoy the interaction, too! Should have done this long ago, at Panorama or Excellence, but those had models I needed to respect just as most magazines or websites would. 000 falls outside of those models, and what's right for here isn't necessarily right for its pages. And I can hone what I do want to do for 000 through this process.
Originally Posted by RupeTN
Pete, thanks for making me have to work late! Caught your post on IG this afternoon, then of course I had to put my work aside for a few minutes and hop over here to read more about your ride & impressions.......45 minutes later......still have some work to finsh.
Thanks for the diversion.
Thanks Pete - nice spec - basically all the performance goodies - hence the performance 😀
I like Chris Gebhards work at AMuS - his articles on the 991 S and GTS are worth a read (Corsa peak lateral g 1.6 Vs 1.5 for the PZN1).
When new the PZN1 are very sticky but this is lost relatively quickly, the Corsas sit in between the PZN1 and MPSCN1 - I had one set of Corsas and felt they were a bit better than the PZN1 but no where near as effective as the MPSC2N1.
I think there is a really good article in a "compare and contrast" of the new S without the performance fruit and the new S with the performance fruit.
With the 991 it's like night and day. 👍
PS Just priced one up $AUD334,000 ~ $USD250,000 Carrera S with the performance fruit
01-21-2019 | 07:12 AM
. I think its important to understand this in the context of the 450PS Carrera e.g. is there any real meaningful difference. By the same token these times are blisteringly fast.........so does it matter?
