djcxxx

slc4s

Pete: interested on your take on the subjective "feel" of the interior vs 991.2. The shiny black plastic on the center console cheapened it a bit for me but it still looked what I would call luxurious and high quality. It was at the LA auto show though so I couldn't sit in it... just look. So compared to a 992 with full leather did you think it felt more, less, or equally luxurious given you had time to touch and interact with the environment?

dkhm3

great write up. 991.35, pretty great way to sum it up.

Would you be able to share the options list on your test cars? I wonder what Porsche considers a good build to present to reviewers for the 992- Besides PCCB and PDCC, did they include the sport pasm and ras?
To me, all the photos of the 992, the car seems bloated and large- does it look this way in person when you walk toward it? It would have been nice to have an aggressive rear stance like the AWD versions of the 991's vs the larger front and rear haunches.
Also on the digital gauges you mentioned that you can't see the outer ones in the car, what are your thoughts about how that affects the way the car drives day to day? I assume on the track one has no time but to look at the center tach, but day to day it would be annoying to tilt your head to read it?
The new PDK 8, I wonder on the improved acceleration numbers are due to the shorter gears? do you feel a difference in the way the car shifts vs 991.2?

Thanks Pete.

stout

EDIT: Apologies for the book in advance, all. I can write quicker in long form than when it comes to editing down/laboring over words and pursuing clever/elegant. So consider this "notes in the raw" feedback.

^ I think a lot of Porsche enthusiasts have fallen into the "it must be GT" trap and are actually not driving brand new 911s they keep in the garage due to $$ and depreciation instead of buying less expensive 911s they would not only enjoy more often but possibly enjoy more.

Don't get me wrong, I love GT3s, but when I look at sales percentages and all of the threads about price, I get the sense something is off—particularly after getting to know just how good the 991.2 is in all situations, from daily use to back road blasts. A lot of track work? Sure, GTx is the way to go. But how many do this, and how often? How how much more fun are they having on those fairly rare or rare days they're on track compared to the fun they'd have in a Carrera/S/GTS/T. You are probably better able to speak to that than most.

It was also interesting to me, in Valencia, due to a big surprise. Just as a 991.1 GT3 RS with a better driver who knew the course couldn't put much if any gap on me in a 991.2 Carrera 7MT with summer tires up a closed hillclimb course in Tenerife, I was surprised to find that it wasn't all that hard to keep up with a 991.2 GT3 RS (again driven by a better driver than me) around Valencia. This was strange to me, as I figured the 991.1 RS would've left the 991.2 Carrera 7MT in a different zip code had we been on a race track. And yet this time, we were on a race track, and the 991.2 RS had nothing for the 992 Carrera S. Later that night, an engineer shared that one of the instructors said he had to work his RS pretty hard to stay ahead of a few of the Americans. I don't know which instructor or which Americans, but there were a few quick shoes in my group and this engineer's comments came on his own, not as an answer to something I asked. I think it was around the time that we were discussing the 992 Carrera S's pace, and he mentioned what Harley and I had thought about earlier in the day on our own: If this is the Carrera S, the next GTx and Turbo models will be…well, pretty wild. As for the 992S's ability to keep pace with a 991.2 RS around Valencia? I think it was the 991.2 GTS power levels, the very effective 8spd PDK, and then the collection of refinements in track width, calibrations, and subtler things—all of these elements overcoming the 50~kg weight gain.

I wasn't in love with the 992 as a track car—and a ride in the RS reminded me why it's sooooooooo good as both a track tool and an experience (that engine)—but more important to me than speed is the experience. And, on great roads, the 992 Carrera S offered a GREAT drive. Sharp. Predictable. Fun at 5/10ths. Fun when you're really after it, too. I can't say that for every 911 I have tested.

And the manual, which both of us pined for, is still to come. In the meantime, I think PDK proponents are going to be very happy.

You raise an interesting point, and one I've been thinking about since the advent of the 991—at what point, precisely, does the VW influence begin? And perhaps more importantly, at what point is it felt in the cars themselves? I think this is debatable, and probably going to vary person to person. Just my take. I definitely see the influence of VW managers in at least a couple of things in the 992.

Good question. Subjective feel of the interior, in the overall, is very good. I'd mark it down for the drive select **** (hello, aftermarket?), the piano black panels to either side of the shifter, the central cupholder (done for the American marker, sadly), and maybe the gloss black screen to matte-black trim interface to either side of the central screen. As for the rest? Our test car's full-leather interior looked high quality to these eyes, on par with or better than the full-leather interior in my first 991.2. Would be curious to see one without full leather. Steering wheel looks nicer than the 991.2 unit, and the seats looked better to me. High marks in particular for the black seat adjuster buttons, which looked refreshing after the glitzy ones in chromey paint. YMMV, and maybe my preference for them will fade with time. The more two-dimensional doors maybe don't look quite as interesting or expensive as the 981/991 door panels, buuuut they add a feeling of thinner doors/greater space that I don't mind. The new door panels and slender bright trim flowing out of the door releases feel to me more expensive and better designed than the 991 releases/panels. I only wish the designers had been content not to add a wisp of carbon or whatever to these "spears." The spears are pretty enough as is, but maybe if I saw them as I think I'd like to see them I would change my mind? The door release's "sail" theme is picked up at the ends of the dash trim (deliberate, said a designer) and the taillights (I think, but the designer said not deliberate). The armrests seemed nicer/softer to me (need to spend more time to say for sure, but that was my impression and is my recollection). The dash is better than I first thought from photos as well as my "sit" in the car in LA, with the center vents having a nice finishing "rectangle" detail in dark gray and other thoughtful touches.

The digital screens to either side of the tach look very nice, and the integration of things like the next nav instruction in the center of the speedo means you don't have to toggle the one screen in the 991.2 cluster over to that, losing tire pressure or other info on that single screen. Need to play with this more, but I can see better utility in the offing. One thing to note: The user-programmable center buttons decrease in number with the addition of some options/configurations, so play close attention to the configurator images of those buttons as you option the car up. Also, interestingly, the "hidden" buttons in the HVAC control panel at the top of the center console change depending on market. Americans get "Max A/C" in the right-most button where other markets have recirculatory button there. I'd rather have the latter in San Francisco/Northern California, as I just about never hit Max A/C, but I don't live in LA or Houston. It was interesting to listen to the philosophy behind that stuff...I am thinking about publishing that long-form interview in 000, but my takeaway is: This stuff ain't easy. A lot of inputs/requirements.

Back to the overall subjective take: I suspect the interior will, in most ways, be deemed at least as nice as the 991.2's in the eyes of Carrera customers. I'd love the see optional "Sport Paddles" borrowed from the GT4 Clubsport offered in all 992s, and I'd love to see GT cars do away with 80% of the center console (that much space isn't necessary for the number of buttons present) with "center console delete" offered as an option on other models (or at least, as much deleted as possible) but I suspect that's unlikely. There may be safety issues, etc involved—but I'd love to get back to Porsche sports cars where very little separates driver and passenger.

Finally, and I am sure I'll go down in flames for this here on RL, I think the call of the surfaces I saw in the 992s present was...the wood. I know, I know. I am surprised too. Let me note: I generally haaaaate wood in car interiors, and can probably count the times I've liked wood in a Porsche interior up to now on three fingers. Or maybe just one? But what works here is the fact that a) it isn't glossy, b) it is a horizontal surface on the dash, more like a shelf than a wall you have to stare at, and c) it is used sparingly. Any more wood and it would be nasty to me. Would I order it? Hmm. Hmm. Maybe I would, as a nod to the 901.

I drove 3-4 different cars, and it can be tricky to keep up with the options at tests like this. You are, in some cases, literally jumping in, sitting down, driving (hard, in some cases), and on to the next exercise. Sometimes, you get a list of equipment. Sometimes, you do not. Or you miss it. The road car we drove had hard-backed Adaptive Sport Seats (very good, and better/softer to these bones than the previous ones), PCCB, PDCC, and, I am told, PASM Sport. I was told a lot of cars present had Sport PASM. I can look into and request equipment lists for the cars I drove, and had made a note to do so on the plane ride home as I know the license plates.

It does, a bit. But then, 991s look large to me, especially whenever they are around earlier 911s. Even 996s. This, at some level, is probably inevitable—as they are bloated and large by comparison. Bizarrely, the 992 didn't look as massive to me as I expected it to when Porsche presented it to us right behind a SWB 911. The 992 was silver, the 911 beige—and the 911 was further away from my seat. No, I can't explain that, but I remember studying it. Also: I was surprised how small my 991 looked when parked next to a Mercedes GLA recently. As in...tiny. So a lot of this is our minds playing tricks with us. Happens to me a lot of the freeway, where I'll see an original Range Rover (big, right?) near a newer one. Or a CR-V. Or a 2005 Mustang (which looks like a truck next to pickups and many SUVs).

I don't think you'll be disappointed in this regard. Of everything done to the exterior, the flares (front and rear but particularly the rear) are the shining success to these eyes. While I am still processing the changes to either end of the car, the fenders/flares and slimmed doors are masterful in my view, again particularly in the rear.

Need to spend more time living with the car in order to answer this with more confidence, but my sense after a half-day with the car is that the freedom of gauge user-determined configuration will mitigate this to a large degree. I focused my attention on vehicle dynamics and things one can't easily learn through a visit to a dealer or the configurator, but your question is valid and one I shared. One designer told me they knew this and decided to try the larger screens knowing the outside two would be obscured—valuing the legibility/size of the larger "dials" more and therefore assigning limited info choices to the outer "dials" that is both more limited and that can be, in some cases, repeated elsewhere (like time and/or temp).

One thing I wish they would do: allow the center screen to be configured as a giant display for not just tire pressure but also temp (McLaren does this) alongside a digital dashboard with a panel of small dials monitoring everything the car does (trans temp if it does, etc).

Other observations: The new speedo really vibes off of the original 901 gauges, and is fine by me even if I prefer the look of the ones in the 991 dating back to the late 1960s. And the new needles are pretty cool, with a narrow and precise illuminated "hair" at the tips. It's a cool detail, and surprisingly effective at improving the perception or reality of precision. In a quick talk with one of the people behind these systems, I learned (much to my dismay) that rolling out a retroactive fix for the 991.2's automatic rev-matching in Sport or Sport Plus with Sport Chrono is about as easy as rolling out a hardware change like a third door mirror. In other words, it ain't gonna happen. Will share this with the 991 board, as that's where the inquiry originated a few months ago. Had to wait for the right time and person to ask, and that happened this weekend. But the upshot is: How it comes, is how it comes. Even when it comes to matters digital.

My sense is yes on the gearing. To be honest, I am not the world's PDK expert because I have studiously avoided PDK cars since ordering a 987.2 Cayman S with PDK and learning that I was bored out of my mind on the street (loved it on track and auto-x, however). So...while PDK-S in the 991.1 GT3 was notably different from previous PDKs upon first try, other systems have seemed to me like refinements rather than revolutions. Better? Yes. More intuitive? Also, yes. Radically better? I'll defer to someone else to make that judgment, but my take is that the 8spd PDK shifts VERY quickly, super smoothly, and is quite proficient when left to its own devices. I prefer it in the Manual mode on back roads for a bit more predictability (including the predictability of me hitting the rev limiter in second twice...) and a bit more interaction. It's a great gearbox, and I don't really know how someone could wish for more from an automatic.

JIMMY JAMES

Amazing detail. Thank you. If you have any more pics of a white car from the launch that'd be awesome.

Ikone

Thanks for the awesome and detailed write-up. Very much appreciated. All this makes me want to go with another T when they come out. Hopefully they wait until the 992.2.

Northquest

STG

Nice write ups Pete and generous of you to take the time to share your experience.

groundhog

Stout, enjoyed the level of detail and insight - thanks for making the time to keep the unwashed informed

Were the vehicles you tested fitted with RAS? The reason I ask is, this single option makes a very significant difference to the 991.2 when one has it pinned.

I also agree with your comments on the GT3 - Largely I put this down to the quality of the 9A2, its power - torque delivery and RAS. The GT3 almost represents a different market segment for those that want a specific emotive experience and for some buyers that makes a lot sense. Performance wise the gap really is down to the driver and tires these days (vis a vis say GTS and GT3)

With regard to the PDK the shorter gearing allows more force at the contact patch thereby nullifying the current GT3s gearing advantage (may apply to the new S and will definitely apply to the new GTS).

I also agree with your comment on the weight, my GTS weighs in at about 3340 lbs or thereabouts and this impacts on tires on track, let the rears cool off too much and you have every chance of rolling the sidewalls.

Great review, very fair, balanced and objective.

Afterthought - I went and had a look at few interior pics and movies of the interior and was simply left with a feeling it could be the interior from any generic higher end car - the seats in particular look quite large and thick. Contrast those with say, the simple sport plus seats in alcantara - the latter looks and feels like it's from a sports car the former from a Bimmer or Merc (thats my impression).

Afterthought 2: I noticed you mentioned the 7:25 ring time isn't that what we'd expect from a 450PS Carrera given Porsche and Auto Motor Und Sport did times of 7:22 and 7:24 in the outgoing 991 Series II GTS - so doesn't that beg the question "why haven't the stated improvements had a significant impact on performance over the broadly equivalent engine set up in the outgoing model" . Basically like for like the performance gains appear very marginal.

digits

I know I'm not alone in thinking that plastic and especially glossy surfaces always look cheap - that seems like such a silly place to cut corners on cost when the impression of quality is achieved with so little in actual materials cost.

You said it - this stuff really ain't easy. I am probably in the minority here in that I am not upset about the loss of analog gauges. VW is pushing this across everything anyway - even my 2018 Golf R is all digital now. It's not great... yet - but it isn't awful and this is the future we need to embrace. I find I never actually look at the analog side gauges on the edges in my 991.2 - they're blocked by the steering wheel! I put the digital values for coolant&oil temps, oil pressure, and fuel in the MFD. I appreciate when a manufacturer gives me a way to organize info I need to spot quickly while driving and still makes it possible to access/update info where I have more time to spend (safely) interacting. I know Porsche will do a great job with this (better than my VW Golf for sure, and it's really not so terrible). User programmable center buttons sound fantastic!

Northquest

groundhog

[/QUOTE]

Yes I think you're right the optional Corsas similar to Cup 2s.

"Porsche figures in the press documents for the 911 Carrera GTS the Nordschleife time with the sports tires of the type Pirelli P Zero Corsa N0 with 7.22 minutes." From google translate.

Northquest

stout

Will return to some of the questions/feedback, but for now want to get through some thoughts on the other two movements in Spain. So, first up…

992 on the wet handling course:
Of everything poorly conveyed during the 992's debut, Wet Mode got the shortest shrift in my opinion. It wasn't until I heard an engineer speaking about it that its broader importance—and intention—began to sink in. This engineer, who played a pivotal role in the development of PSM for the 996 C4 (and subsequent offerings), was clearly proud of the development in Hockenheim, noting its value for safety in the here and now as well as its potential value for autonomous vehicles when it comes to detecting conditions wet enough to require various adaptations. In speaking with him again in Spain, he noted that a lot of lives have been saved by PSM and its derivatives, but that PSM has done little in one area: hydroplaning. For obvious reasons. He said the problem is only worse on the autobahn, where the 911 driver is used to being king or queen...seeing BMW 7s and big Benzes get out of his/her way—but the 911's wider tires and comparatively light weight work against it in standing water. The goal of Wet Mode is twofold: 1) To alert the driver (who may be on a call after a long day at work, or tired, or listening to the radio really loudly) that the conditions are right for hydroplaning, and 2) to prompt the driver to make an opt-in decision to engage a mode that smooths inputs and radically reduces the chances of the driver losing control—particularly as he/she heads for an offramp after leaving a rain-slicked freeway (apparently a situation that has claimed more than a few 911s). The key to making the system useful was avoiding too many warnings, too often, and for the wrong things. And programming it to recognize the difference between the sound of sand on the freeways of the Middle East and standing water.

How does it work? If you're driving along and the system's acoustic sensors in the wheel wells detect enough splashing water to signal conditions ripe for hydroplaning, you get a prompt on the dash to ask you if you want to switch to Wet Mode. Do so, and the rear wing comes up for additional downforce (if you are going fast enough) and inputs such as throttle response are dulled while power is limited and PASM isn't allowed to stiffen up the dampers. All the things that make sense in the rain if you're after maximum grip and minimum risk. How is it different than PSM? The thresholds are lowered—where PSM intervenes to save you, Wet Mode is working to keep you from getting to that "moment." It's a subtle distinction on paper, not so much in person.

The only pity with the wet driving demonstration was that it was relatively low speed—so there was no chance to experience the system identifying conditions that could lead to hydroplaning, and the wing stayed down throughout the exercise. It would have been great to try the system in a setting where you could be free to lose the car at 70 mph on standing water with enough runoff for that not to matter, but such venues are few and far between. We had to settle for something like a kart track with a lot of sprinklers and a lot of tire walls—alternating between Wet Mode (very controlled) and Sport Plus with PSM on (not so controlled, and PSM was very proactive to fix spins as well as understeer when it came on (which was often) before we went back to Wet Mode. Playing between the modes, it was clear that Wet Mode is not only much safer, but probably the faster way around in truly wet conditions. Another way to put the difference: I think it would have been difficult if not impossible to put the 992 into a tire wall in Wet Mode short of not steering, where it would have been pretty easy to do so in Sport Plus (I still had to make some corrections, as I never had 100% confidence that PSM was gonna save the car if I didn't add some counter steer or alter throttle as needed.

Great exercise? No. Worthwhile exercise? For sure. Impressive system? Yes. Would I like to have it in a 996, 997, or 991, if I could wave a magic wand? Yes, I would.

As for the 992 on a tight course, and a wet one at that? Takeaways were: Quick-witted. Agile for its size. Nicely balanced. Able to generate under- or oversteer depending on which newbie inputs I added—which suggests it's fairly neutral for a rear-engined car. 3.0 spools quickly enough to launch the thing quickly even from low speed corner exits with not much traction—to the point that I had to rely on full threshold braking in a few spots on the course, where it also did well. PDK definitely an advantage on the small course.

stout

And…

992 on the big track
Valencia is a great circuit, with a mix of bends, a high-speed front straight, and enough elevation change to keep things interesting. We didn't get a ton of track time, but we did get more laps than we sometimes do, and it was enough to get some impressions down. First thing: The 992 Carrera S is seriously fast. As stated previously in an answer to a question, the instructors were driving 991.2 GT3 RSs—and I got the sense the instructor ahead of me was working his RS fairly hard (though not to the limit). It wasn't that hard to catch up, and I know I was leaving bags of time here and there all the way around the circuit between unfamiliarity with the circuit (it's been 5~ years since my last ten~ laps there in a 918), jet lag, and my own limits when it comes to risk/reward. Where it was most notable: Out of corners, where the 3.0 had zero trouble keeping up with the 4.0. An engineer later noted that one of the instructors said he was having to work his RS hard to stay ahead, and this was in a private conversation where that wasn't the subject but rather an aside to the idea that this new Carrera represents a starting point for the next GT3 and Turbo, etc. Second thing: The Carrera S is fun enough and then some for the occasional or even semi-regular track day. It is a bit soft for track work, even with Sport PASM and PDCC, but only a bit—and it makes sense that this 911 leaves space for more track-oriented models while sticking to what it is: A 911 built for street use. PDK works brilliantly on track, as do the standard brakes (big reds) and Pirelli tires—though I did have a bit less confidence in the brake pedal towards the end of the session (no fade, though, and I probably could have been a bit nicer to the brakes). Some other quick thoughts after only a few good laps: High-speed stability is superb given the lack of a big, fixed rear wing. Squat/dive/roll are well attenuated...to the point you have to think about the fact you aren't dealing with them. As it was on the street, PDCC is really well sorted—now "organic" in the sense that you don't notice it at work and wouldn't know it's there. I need to drive cars with and without down the right roads to be sure, but I think PDCC may have just moved from a "skip" to "buy" for me. Traction out of turns is quite good, and, again, the new Pirellis didn't fall off while getting run ragged. The adaptive sport seats are quite good on track—better than their predecessors and quite possibly better than the sublime (at least for my frame) 4WSS+ in the 981/991 era. What the car isn't is visceral—if the measuring stick is a GT3. For a reminder course, I asked to ride along in a GT3 RS with one of the instructors—and was immediately reminded of why people (and I) love the normally aspirated flat sixes from Flacht. The scream. The drama. The absolutely dialed chassis, a road car that...just. shouldn't. be. that. good. on. track. And people leave them in the garage? For real? But man was he working that thing to keep it ahead of the 992S. I think he had a bit more to go, but he was hardly cruising…

Second and last ride of the day was back in a 992, this time with Mark Webber. Yes, I decided to stand in line because…well, why wouldn't you. The car he chose to use for hot laps? C4S with PCCB, like the 992 Carrera S he just ordered. Turns out he likes AWD cars for dailies, and this will do until the next Turbo is out. As expected, it was a blinding lap, and here's a driver I'd get into a car again with anytime. Smooth, predictable, sharing something with you rather than showing you something (always my cue to get out), and using all of the car with a subtlety of inputs I've seen in few drivers. When I was watching him from the pits, he kept showing up in parts of the track well before I expected him to. From inside the car, it was a pleasant ride in the park. That's when you know. And the C4S was up to the challenge 4-5 passenger rides in.

I feel like I am forgetting some things, so consider these a few first thoughts jotted down. Feel free to ask questions, as I have some I need to answer anyway!

'Night…

pete