Dead battery woes
07-02-2023, 02:46 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
in my case it was a wonky factory module keeping a load on the 12V battery even when the car was unused…I'm optimistic with a new correctly behaving module the car will be able to sit idle "longer" before the battery is dead - but as I noted in my thread going forward with modern vehicles I believe it's impossible to safely store these vehicles for extended periods of time due to:
Now what I do believe is reasonable but porsche does not provide:
modern cars and Porsche's in particular need trickle charging to stay alive these days because of the "always on" systems that are now inherent in the product feature set. The choices seem to be: trickle charger required after some number of "weeks" of a non-use - or ship with a higher capacity battery from the factory - but that only moves the period of time out further for requiring 12V trickle charging - because these vehicle's are never full shut off…there is always something "awake" waiting for an RF signal of some sort to cause an action…
good 12V trickle charger + 12V booster is requirement equipment these days - unless the car is driven frequently enough and long enough duration.
- keyless entry/start (something has to "listen" for the RF signal) that takes power
- online status for the Porsche app - this is a wireless communication and the car has to be "awake" - more power demand
- in car security system (the flashing red light)
- interior monitoring
- other's I don't know about
Now what I do believe is reasonable but porsche does not provide:
- higher capacity factory battery - they know these systems are "alive" and need constant power - they should provide a battery that can handle the car being idle for at least 6 months (assuming the car is behaving correctly and as designed which in my case due to a bad module it was not)
- a more supported and direct/easy method to externally maintain the 12V battery vs. alligator clamps
- if they need constant power for long term storage they should provide a well integrated, easy method for doing so.
- porsche should make their vehicle's easier to "recover" vs the "jump start the fuse panel to get the frunk open" procedures we all have endure currently…
Spoiler
Yes you may need to "jump start" an EV with a dead 12V battery (actually you just need to "boost" the 12V enough to wake the car up - at which point the car comes alive, notices the 12V is low and engages the onboard DC/DC converter and uses power from the "big battery" to recharge the 12V battery) - but technically you need to jump start it - to Porsche's credit - they fixed the software in 2021 and there are few if any further reports of this issue - my personal 2020 Taycan has been rock solid since the fix - even lasting 6+ weeks of non-use with main battery at 50% or less…but this problem was embarrassing at the time IMHO…modern cars and Porsche's in particular need trickle charging to stay alive these days because of the "always on" systems that are now inherent in the product feature set. The choices seem to be: trickle charger required after some number of "weeks" of a non-use - or ship with a higher capacity battery from the factory - but that only moves the period of time out further for requiring 12V trickle charging - because these vehicle's are never full shut off…there is always something "awake" waiting for an RF signal of some sort to cause an action…
good 12V trickle charger + 12V booster is requirement equipment these days - unless the car is driven frequently enough and long enough duration.
Apple for example documents "stand by time" for iPhone - i.e. the amount of time you can expect your iPhone to remain "alive" while not being used…
https://www.apple.com/iphone/battery.html
for example Apple documents iPhone standby time at 9 days with "hey siri" active, or 15 days with hey-siri disabled…
modern cars are effectively rolling computers - it's time to document "standby" time…
Hey Porsche is the "standby time" for my 2022 911 TurboS Cabriolet 2 weeks? 4 weeks? 3 months? or 6 months? i.e. when will the battery die if don't "charge it" either via driving or 12V trickle charger?
Now that I think about it - yeah - this should be something they are 100% unfront about - what is the expected stand by time of my 911 rolling computer? We shoud know, it would clear up a lot of confusion.
but it is a fact that standby time is no longer "indefinite" like previous less communicative vehicle's with active electronics - those days are long long long gone.
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 07-02-2023 at 02:47 PM.
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AlexCeres (11-26-2023)
07-02-2023, 02:53 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
also porsche knows exactly how much power their products "take" while sitting idle - and they know the capacity of the batteries they are shipping - they should document for us "standby" time one can expect before needing to "start/run" the vehicle or have it on a trickle charger
Apple for example documents "stand by time" for iPhone - i.e. the amount of time you can expect your iPhone to remain "alive" while not being used…
https://www.apple.com/iphone/battery.html
for example Apple documents iPhone standby time at 9 days with "hey siri" active, or 15 days with hey-siri disabled…
modern cars are effectively rolling computers - it's time to document "standby" time…
Hey Porsche is the "standby time" for my 2022 911 TurboS Cabriolet 2 weeks? 4 weeks? 3 months? or 6 months? i.e. when will the battery die if don't "charge it" either via driving or 12V trickle charger?
Now that I think about it - yeah - this should be something they are 100% unfront about - what is the expected stand by time of my 911 rolling computer? We shoud know, it would clear up a lot of confusion.
but it is a fact that standby time is no longer "indefinite" like previous less communicative vehicle's with active electronics - those days are long long long gone.
Apple for example documents "stand by time" for iPhone - i.e. the amount of time you can expect your iPhone to remain "alive" while not being used…
https://www.apple.com/iphone/battery.html
for example Apple documents iPhone standby time at 9 days with "hey siri" active, or 15 days with hey-siri disabled…
modern cars are effectively rolling computers - it's time to document "standby" time…
Hey Porsche is the "standby time" for my 2022 911 TurboS Cabriolet 2 weeks? 4 weeks? 3 months? or 6 months? i.e. when will the battery die if don't "charge it" either via driving or 12V trickle charger?
Now that I think about it - yeah - this should be something they are 100% unfront about - what is the expected stand by time of my 911 rolling computer? We shoud know, it would clear up a lot of confusion.
but it is a fact that standby time is no longer "indefinite" like previous less communicative vehicle's with active electronics - those days are long long long gone.
Your 12V starter battery is approach a limit for which it will turn off for battery maintenance and longevity. We've notice you've not taken a drive in quite some time (24 days since last started). Please take a 20 min or more drive or provide an external 12V charger to keep your Porsche ready for immediate driving engagement. This will maintain your vehicle's battery health and your driving engagment.
if it needs maintaining (which it does) then it should work with me as the owner to keep me informed of it's status. Finding it "dead" in the garage is a not a great customer experience, Especially since it's not a surprise and the onboard electronics draining the battery probably watched it happen in real time and could've sent some messages to potentially avoid the situation.
it can tell me I've left my door open, windows down, or frunk open - it should inform me that my 12V battery needs attention before it shuts off.
I believe this would be an honest improvement in ownership experience vs. silently dropping "offline" - and is a reality of modern vehicles that they can not sit indefinitely and it's unreasonable to expect them to do so. And if the car is driven sufficiently these messages would "never" trigger - and would probably save on porsche road side, warranty investigations, and unnecessary owner angst for a 100% avoidable problem - power is being used, you need to keep the 12V battery charged some how…to just bury your head in the sand and assume this will never happen it simply denying the factual operational standard of the modern vehicle with active electronics.
the more I think about it - the more upset I am here that Porsche isn't being proactive with me about the state of my 12V battery - and helping me keep the vehicle operational with some simple and obvious metrics and communication about my 12V battery state so I can avoid "finding it dead". This is an avoidable problem, Porsche should be engaging with us on the status of this system, and proactively informing us that it needs charging to avoid unnecessary and foreseeable outage. The LiON battery being drained via normal use to it's low battery state offline - should not be something that happens in secret…it should ping us on the way down to give me a chance to intercede and avoid the hassle.
this is separate from an actual battery 'failure" - but with LiON I would suggest more frequent than actual failures.
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 07-02-2023 at 03:06 PM.
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AlexCeres (11-26-2023)
07-02-2023, 03:15 PM
#33
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^ Porsche could do all that, but it would cut into the fat profit margins, and they don’t have much incentive to do more because we’re already kind of captive to them - they pretty much own the sports car market from $100-275k.
My car’s battery died (completely) simply from trying to start it a dozen or so times when it had no gas. And the starter failed too. Not good …
My car’s battery died (completely) simply from trying to start it a dozen or so times when it had no gas. And the starter failed too. Not good …
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daveo4porsche (07-02-2023)
07-05-2023, 03:51 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
also porsche knows exactly how much power their products "take" while sitting idle - and they know the capacity of the batteries they are shipping - they should document for us "standby" time one can expect before needing to "start/run" the vehicle or have it on a trickle charger
Apple for example documents "stand by time" for iPhone - i.e. the amount of time you can expect your iPhone to remain "alive" while not being used…
https://www.apple.com/iphone/battery.html
for example Apple documents iPhone standby time at 9 days with "hey siri" active, or 15 days with hey-siri disabled…
modern cars are effectively rolling computers - it's time to document "standby" time…
Hey Porsche is the "standby time" for my 2022 911 TurboS Cabriolet 2 weeks? 4 weeks? 3 months? or 6 months? i.e. when will the battery die if don't "charge it" either via driving or 12V trickle charger?
Now that I think about it - yeah - this should be something they are 100% unfront about - what is the expected stand by time of my 911 rolling computer? We shoud know, it would clear up a lot of confusion.
but it is a fact that standby time is no longer "indefinite" like previous less communicative vehicle's with active electronics - those days are long long long gone.
Apple for example documents "stand by time" for iPhone - i.e. the amount of time you can expect your iPhone to remain "alive" while not being used…
https://www.apple.com/iphone/battery.html
for example Apple documents iPhone standby time at 9 days with "hey siri" active, or 15 days with hey-siri disabled…
modern cars are effectively rolling computers - it's time to document "standby" time…
Hey Porsche is the "standby time" for my 2022 911 TurboS Cabriolet 2 weeks? 4 weeks? 3 months? or 6 months? i.e. when will the battery die if don't "charge it" either via driving or 12V trickle charger?
Now that I think about it - yeah - this should be something they are 100% unfront about - what is the expected stand by time of my 911 rolling computer? We shoud know, it would clear up a lot of confusion.
but it is a fact that standby time is no longer "indefinite" like previous less communicative vehicle's with active electronics - those days are long long long gone.
https://www.porsche.com/usa/accessor...ideassistance/
listed under "service" jump start
If your vehicle is not driven on a daily basis or has not been started for more than six weeks, the battery may need to be replaced.
07-05-2023, 09:39 AM
#35
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The car is like ta scorned woman. "Is everything ok?"..... "I'm fine"..."You seem upset?"....."It's nothing"....."Are you sure honey is it something I did?"....."you just do you, I'm good"
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07-05-2023, 06:02 PM
#36
If you don't know what you did wrong, then I'm certainly not going to tell you
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07-06-2023, 01:49 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
interesting related thread over in the 992 GT3 forums…https://rennlist.com/forums/992-gt3-...d-battery.html
post #33 is my thoughts…https://rennlist.com/forums/992-gt3-...l#post18893921
post #33 is my thoughts…https://rennlist.com/forums/992-gt3-...l#post18893921
required equipment for modern porsches these days unfortunately - it's also a decent USB "charger" for devices and such and includes the light - so it's a generically useful device, and has enough power to start an ICE or EV or wake up a Porsche via the fuse-box dance…and then start the vehicle with direct access to the 12V battery terminals.
Amazon
and don't put it in the frunk for "when you need it" - think about it…
Amazon
and don't put it in the frunk for "when you need it" - think about it…
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 07-06-2023 at 02:01 PM.
07-15-2023, 09:49 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
interesting related thread over in the 992 GT3 forums…https://rennlist.com/forums/992-gt3-...d-battery.html
post #33 is my thoughts…https://rennlist.com/forums/992-gt3-...l#post18893921
post #33 is my thoughts…https://rennlist.com/forums/992-gt3-...l#post18893921
something to keep an eye on…
11-18-2023, 09:00 PM
#39
in my case it was a wonky factory module keeping a load on the 12V battery even when the car was unused…I'm optimistic with a new correctly behaving module the car will be able to sit idle "longer" before the battery is dead - but as I noted in my thread going forward with modern vehicles I believe it's impossible to safely store these vehicles for extended periods of time due to:
Now what I do believe is reasonable but porsche does not provide:
modern cars and Porsche's in particular need trickle charging to stay alive these days because of the "always on" systems that are now inherent in the product feature set. The choices seem to be: trickle charger required after some number of "weeks" of a non-use - or ship with a higher capacity battery from the factory - but that only moves the period of time out further for requiring 12V trickle charging - because these vehicle's are never full shut off…there is always something "awake" waiting for an RF signal of some sort to cause an action…
good 12V trickle charger + 12V booster is requirement equipment these days - unless the car is driven frequently enough and long enough duration.
- keyless entry/start (something has to "listen" for the RF signal) that takes power
- online status for the Porsche app - this is a wireless communication and the car has to be "awake" - more power demand
- in car security system (the flashing red light)
- interior monitoring
- other's I don't know about
Now what I do believe is reasonable but porsche does not provide:
- higher capacity factory battery - they know these systems are "alive" and need constant power - they should provide a battery that can handle the car being idle for at least 6 months (assuming the car is behaving correctly and as designed which in my case due to a bad module it was not)
- a more supported and direct/easy method to externally maintain the 12V battery vs. alligator clamps
- if they need constant power for long term storage they should provide a well integrated, easy method for doing so.
- porsche should make their vehicle's easier to "recover" vs the "jump start the fuse panel to get the frunk open" procedures we all have endure currently…
Spoiler
modern cars and Porsche's in particular need trickle charging to stay alive these days because of the "always on" systems that are now inherent in the product feature set. The choices seem to be: trickle charger required after some number of "weeks" of a non-use - or ship with a higher capacity battery from the factory - but that only moves the period of time out further for requiring 12V trickle charging - because these vehicle's are never full shut off…there is always something "awake" waiting for an RF signal of some sort to cause an action…
good 12V trickle charger + 12V booster is requirement equipment these days - unless the car is driven frequently enough and long enough duration.
I am only on page 1 of this thread but this is and has been my one big complaint. I trickle it after having to jump my TTS over 5-10 times. PITA. First having to use the key to get in, then jumping through the fuse box to open frunk, then jump the car. Pain!!!!
Now I trickle every time I dont use it for more than 3 days.
Left town last Sunday to return Thursday night. Friday morning jumped in and DEAD. That is 4 full days and it was dead. WTF? That is simply unacceptable IMO. I hope there is a warranty fix or something I can throttle back to make this better.
I cant even drive it to the airport for long term parking for 4 days without anxiety that it won't start? That is crazy.
11-19-2023, 12:28 PM
#40
Hi Motown - not sure what year your car is but mine is a 2021 992CS and I had major battery issues as well until Siberian pointed out that there was a software update bulletin that Porsche put out advising of a software updated that needed to be performed. Seems like there was a drain on the battery that the software update corrected. I've been good ever since.
11-20-2023, 12:40 AM
#41
Hi Motown - not sure what year your car is but mine is a 2021 992CS and I had major battery issues as well until Siberian pointed out that there was a software update bulletin that Porsche put out advising of a software updated that needed to be performed. Seems like there was a drain on the battery that the software update corrected. I've been good ever since.
11-20-2023, 12:22 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
I discovered that if you leave your 911 unlocked in your garage - even with the key kept away from the car- the battery will drain. You must lock the car with the remote to completely isolate the battery.
There was also a. System update as well that I learned about when the 911 4S we rented from Porsche died in an underground parking garage and it took days to get into the car to jump the battery.
the emergency door lock key just spun in the lock - dealer said this happens more often than they would like to admit. And on the 992 911 porsche decided to save $5 and remove the emergency release cable hidden behind the fascia on the left front wheel well.
once the car was towed back to the dealer - Saltzburg Porsche- they updated the battery control software and this ended this issue.
There was also a. System update as well that I learned about when the 911 4S we rented from Porsche died in an underground parking garage and it took days to get into the car to jump the battery.
the emergency door lock key just spun in the lock - dealer said this happens more often than they would like to admit. And on the 992 911 porsche decided to save $5 and remove the emergency release cable hidden behind the fascia on the left front wheel well.
once the car was towed back to the dealer - Saltzburg Porsche- they updated the battery control software and this ended this issue.