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Power VS Weight for Canyons and Road Driving: Lambo Revuelto - SF90 - 765 - 3RS - GT3
Hi All,
I have intentionally posted in this forum as I see the GT3 and 3RS as the measuring stick and value the opinion of forum members.
I found today's launch of the Revuelto very interesting. Its gorgeous and looks so much better than the SF90... And a 9500 redline in a powerhouse V12!My experience outside of Porsche in the last 10 years is fairly limited. Aside from Porsche I've had the pleasure of owning a tuned F90 M5 and a stock 675LT Spider. Both truly phenomenal for their own use case. But I haven't had any experience with the latest cars with huge HP numbers.
What I find interesting is both the SF90 and Revuelto have huge power, but weigh around 500kg more than a 675lt. That is a huge amount! Surely this additional weight must impact the driving experience. Those of you with a good amount of time behind the wheel of some of these huge HP modern cars, can you please share experiences vs say a 3RS or GT3 or 675.
I wonder if this added power and weight improve or detract from the driving experience versus lighter and less powerful cars.
Is 500hp the sweet spot for street driving making the GT3, ST, Speedster etc the King?
Is the 675 and 765 the best sweet spot of power and weight?
OR is the power to weight ratio of these powerhouse flagship hybrids the new king?
I realise the prices are drastically different, but more cost doesn't always mean better.
Thanks and those of you with experience in these various cars please share your experiences and opinions.
Last edited by BrntRubber; 03-29-2023 at 08:44 PM.
I think all of those cars listed are overkill for canyon carving and the street. The GT4, GT4 RS, & Lotus Emira are the best options for canyon carving and street use. Your list is better for high speed tracks.
Most canyon roads are B roads with a lot of bumps, dips, & undulations, which is not ideal for a stiffly sprung car that is optimized for high speed stability.
I think all of those cars listed are overkill for canyon carving and the street. The GT4, GT4 RS, & Lotus Emira are the best options for canyon carving and street use. Your list is better for high speed tracks.
Most canyon roads are B roads with a lot of bumps, dips, & undulations, which is not ideal for a stiffly sprung car that is optimized for high speed stability.
This.
500 hp isn't more fun than 400 hp for canyon carving. I think having a slightly more narrow track and shorter wheelbase (also not supercars) are important too. GT4s, boxster spyders are pretty good. A miata with real shocks and springs, or an elise would also be fun.
Power isn't the only measuring stick, there is weight, balance, braking, steering feel, etc. All of the above work, pick one and enjoy it. If you dont like it, trade on another or add to it.
I’m personally not reaching for the SF90 keys for tight canyon runs. It’s like letting loose a tiger in a dog kennel. That’s not to say it’s not up to the job, but it eats up road so quickly, I would probably opt to drive relaxed, which is not the point.
GT3 is incredible for canyon runs with the linear power, great noises, and manual transmission. I don’t have to anticipate as much the “oh ****” moment where I’m going too fast and I didn’t realize a corner was so sharp or something. SF90 will bite you if you’re unstable with the weight or power distribution, and it bites hard.
I won’t be a buyer of the new Lambo, so no idea how it will compare. I assume it will be similar (stupid fast, heavy)
Last edited by User 81423; 03-29-2023 at 09:59 PM.
I think all of those cars listed are overkill for canyon carving and the street. The GT4, GT4 RS, & Lotus Emira are the best options for canyon carving and street use. Your list is better for high speed tracks.
Most canyon roads are B roads with a lot of bumps, dips, & undulations, which is not ideal for a stiffly sprung car that is optimized for high speed stability.
Not the case, I took out a tarmac rally series and podiumed at national level events using a 991.2 GT3 RS on stock adjustable Bilstein suspension. 100N/mm f and 160N/mm rear is quite well balanced (doesn't mean its a comfort ride) - the more important considerations in relation to suspension, for competition of this type, are height and travel (e.g. potential for radiator damage in compressions). Track stiff springs are over 200N/mm front and rear e.g. Cup Cars.
The most important consideration is the driver - the driver must understand the limitations of the car and where you can make time and where you can give time for the set up you're driving (risk reward for optimal time trade off). The average speeds in these multi-day closed road events are way north of canyon carving/ spirited driving and on average stage speeds, match the average speeds of medium to medium fast tracks.
For spirited, fun, sensible canyon carving you're way better off taking a ~ 300HP Cayman/Boxster for a run than a 800HP torque rich, heavy, super car (IMHO).
Not the case, I took out a tarmac rally series and podiumed at national level events using a 991.2 GT3 RS on stock adjustable Bilstein suspension. 100N/mm f and 160N/mm rear is quite well balanced (doesn't mean its a comfort ride) - the more important considerations in relation to suspension, for competition of this type, are height and travel (e.g. potential for radiator damage in compressions). Track stiff springs are over 200N/mm front and rear e.g. Cup Cars.
The most important consideration is the driver - the driver must understand the limitations of the car and where you can make time and where you can give time for the set up you're driving (risk reward for optimal time trade off). The average speeds in these multi-day closed road events are way north of canyon carving/ spirited driving and on average stage speeds, match the average speeds of medium to medium fast tracks.
For spirited, fun, sensible canyon carving you're way better off taking a ~ 300HP Cayman/Boxster for a run than a 800HP torque rich, heavy, super car (IMHO).
I find it interesting many are saying gt4 or spyder is the ideal for the canyons.
I found the gt3 and speedster great for caving the canyons. I also enjoy it in my 675lts but do feel it is wanting to be pushed harder than my abilities or the road will allow.
I admit I am having romantic thoughts about the Revuelto and 765. I know looks are subjective but the 765 looks amazing. The new Lambo looks truly incredible. With 1,000hp and a 2 sec 0 to 60 (the 2.5 is massively conservative apparently), in a bruce wayne spec, it awakens the inner kid in me.
I find it interesting many are saying gt4 or spyder is the ideal for the canyons.
I found the gt3 and speedster great for caving the canyons. I also enjoy it in my 675lts but do feel it is wanting to be pushed harder than my abilities or the road will allow.
I admit I am having romantic thoughts about the Revuelto and 765. I know looks are subjective but the 765 looks amazing. The new Lambo looks truly incredible. With 1,000hp and a 2 sec 0 to 60 (the 2.5 is massively conservative apparently), in a bruce wayne spec, it awakens the inner kid in me.
The new Lambo is AWESOME!!!
I think as far as weight is concerned, this car changes the game because of the individual torque vectoring from its front electric motors. When you start talking about individual wheel torque vectoring, that can mask and hide weight in corners because it can do things that a conventional drivetrain can't.
I think as far as weight is concerned, this car changes the game because of the individual torque vectoring from its front electric motors. When you start talking about individual wheel torque vectoring, that can mask and hide weight in corners because it can do things that a conventional drivetrain can't.
Interesting, I had no idea it was that signifigant.
Interesting, I had no idea it was that signifigant.
You can accelerate an outside wheel and brake/decelerate an inside wheel - however there are a number of large BUTs (1) no matter what you do you have an optimal slip angle of around 4.5 degrees, the best way to keep this in your favour using technology is rear axle steering (2) heavy cars generate more heat in the tires during hard braking thus like for like (HP drive system) the heavier car will have higher tire wear rates and overheat the tires more quickly (reducing effective cf of the tire).
Mass is like permanent downforce with increased wear rates and heating - whereas active aero (as in GT3 RS) in a light vehicle gives you downforce only when you need it (lower rates of wear and heating).
lambos drive more like american muscle cars than euro sports cars. i hope they can dial that type feel out of the new one but at 4000 lbs, will not be easy.
lambos drive more like american muscle cars than euro sports cars. i hope they can dial that type feel out of the new one but at 4000 lbs, will not be easy.
I think it’ll feel more like a more powerful Nissan GT-R with better throttle response and weight distribution (than an American muscle car).
I think it’ll feel more like a more powerful Nissan GT-R with better throttle response and weight distribution (than an American muscle car).
interesting. i had 2 gtrs and while they didnt feel like a dodge demon muscle car, they still were not true sports cars in feel. maybe lambo high tech can mitigate the 2 ton weight? rear wheel steer should be a big help.
03-29-2023, 08:42 PM
Power VS Weight for Canyons and Road Driving: Lambo Revuelto - SF90 - 765 - 3RS - GT3
