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I was playing with this, trying to convince myself you were right on the effective gearing. You can look at this in two ways - speed in each gear, or thrust from the car as a combination of torque curve and gearing. What is surprising to me is that the effective gearing in 2,3 and to some degree 4, is pretty close in that you're shifting at very similar speeds.
But thrust is obviously a bit different.....
note this is for a 981 GT4
Those are interesting metrics and cool graphs, but I wasn’t trying to make a statement about effective gearing - just actual gearing.
If you ignore the fact that one gearbox turns the opposite direction of the other, consider how things would look if the gearboxes were swapped between the two cars (and normalized for having different rear tire diameters)
I was really only considering the vehicle speed per 1,000 rpm (and that is very different between the cars).
ShakeNBake, I'm sure some people can follow these charts... but I for one cannot. Since I don't really care about the GT4, could you do a cleaner comparison of speeds in gears for 992 GT3 Manual vs. PDK? I wouldn't mind seeing that.
For those who don't think the Manual in the 992 GT3 (or 991.2 GT3 for that matter) is the best manual ever... well then there is no argument, that you have have the best Automatic ever... and get the PDK.
I for one, still like being involved with the car... and those with a PDK unfortunately, just will never get it.
Dave
Last edited by SCCAForums; 01-19-2022 at 02:22 PM.
Best manual I’ve ever owned was a 901 dogleg 5-speed in my 1970 911E. Another manual will never compare to the mechanical feel of that box. That said, my GT3T will be manual. If there was ever a modern manual that comes closest; it’s the GT 6-speed MT.
Conversely, I personally find the PDK is best suited with TT engines & manuals with AC/NA cars.
ShakeNBake, I'm sure some people can follow these charts... but I for one cannot. Since I don't really care about the GT4, could you do a cleaner comparison of speeds in gears for 992 GT3 Manual vs. PDK? I wouldn't mind seeing that.
For those who don't think the Manual in the 992 GT3 (or 991.2 GT3 for that matter) is the best manual ever... well then there is no argument, that you have have the best Automatic ever... and get the PDK.
I for one, still like being involved with the car... and those with a PDK unfortunately, just will never get it.
Dave
The speeds in gears are misleading because the redlines are so different. The metric that tells the gearing story for what it is would be mph per 1,000 rpm (at least that’s my opinion that I’ve been trying to express).
Or if you insist on speeds in gears, then limit both cars to 8,000 rpm..
ShakeNBake, I'm sure some people can follow these charts... but I for one cannot. Since I don't really care about the GT4, could you do a cleaner comparison of speeds in gears for 992 GT3 Manual vs. PDK? I wouldn't mind seeing that.
For those who don't think the Manual in the 992 GT3 (or 991.2 GT3 for that matter) is the best manual ever... well then there is no argument, that you have have the best Automatic ever... and get the PDK.
I for one, still like being involved with the car... and those with a PDK unfortunately, just will never get it.
Dave
Just not true. Have had GT3's with manual gearboxes and and have Porsches with manual gear boxes. I get it perfectly well. PDK for me just edges out the manual gearbox at this point in time in terms of what it will allow the driver to do and the power it will put down at the wheels. Andres Preuniger was pretty vocal along time ago about his dismay about the preference by many over the PDK. He is now towing the company line "great to have options" - and it is. For some reason manual gearbox people tend to be maniacal about the choice. Fact is the PDK is a masterpiece.
Last edited by TexasPorschelover; 01-19-2022 at 03:43 PM.
PDK for me just edges out the manual gearbox at this point in time in terms of what it will allow the driver to do and the power it will put down at the wheels.
I have no issue with you preferring PDK on a subjective basis or because it’s objectively faster (particularly at launch), but it objectively puts down less power to the wheels than Manual (more power lost in wet clutches).
It has been repeatedly demonstrated on chassis dynos…
I have no issue with you preferring PDK on a subjective basis or because it’s objectively faster (particularly at launch), but it objectively puts down less power to the wheels than Manual (more power lost in wet clutches).
It has been repeatedly demonstrated on chassis dynos…
The PDK is better than 99% of drivers, certainly than me, of being in the right gear at precisely the right time - don't kid yourself otherwise. It allows the driver to focus directly on the road and maintaining max speed through turns etc. This is important given how powerful these cars are today. My 964 wide body is the right machine for a manual gearbox for me at least.
Last edited by TexasPorschelover; 01-19-2022 at 03:56 PM.
The PDK is better than 99% of drivers, certainly than me, of being in the right gear at precisely the right time - don't kid yourself otherwise. It allows the driver to focus directly on the road and maintaining max speed through turns etc. This is important given how powerful these cars are today. My 964 wide body is the right machine for a manual gearbox for me at least.
I have plenty of faults as a driver, but selecting the right gear has never been an issue for me (particularly on a track where you choose the same gear at the same place on every lap).
I have plenty of faults as a driver, but selecting the right gear has never been an issue for me (particularly on a track where you choose the same gear at the same place on every lap).
Good for you then. Are you better than a PDK? in a sweeping turn into a hairpin and can you outperform a PDK? In a very aggressive uphill very curvey canyon run with cliffs on one side are you better without a PDK? Not here to debate it. Just think manual gearbox fanatic's perhaps for the most part aren't really pushing these cars too hard or at least nearly as hard as they can be with better technology. I love my manual gearbox cars. For me, the GT3 is a handful when driven very hard and a PDK is a valued tool. Mainly my point is " I get it " just fine.
Good for you then. Are you better than a PDK? in a sweeping turn into a hairpin and can you outperform a PDK? In a very aggressive uphill very curvey canyon run with cliffs on one side are you better without a PDK? Not here to debate it. Just think manual gearbox fanatic's perhaps for the most part aren't really pushing these cars too hard or at least nearly as hard as they can be with better technology. I love my manual gearbox cars. For me, the GT3 is a handful when driven very hard and a PDK is a valued tool. Mainly my point is " I get it " just fine.
No, I cannot shift as fast as a PDK and I am not better than a PDK, but I enjoy driving far better when I’m doing the shifting.
Question is… how many guys are actually racing their GT cars on track?
Not I. To the extent that I pay attention to lap times, I'm only comparing to myself. I'm not even sure in which racing classes one could compete with a street GT3 in wheel to wheel racing...
01-19-2022, 01:59 AM
