Allocation + ADM?
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Lodi (10-08-2021)
10-07-2021, 11:10 AM
#1832
Yes it's true. People who pay these ADM's are fat ****** who can't drive and definitely don't drive their cars "like they are meant to be driven" (presumably at 9000rpm every day all day) and they are all scared sh!tless of the track. So they don't deserve this car and it's a crying shame they are taking a spot from a real enthusiast, LIKE YOU!
Or...
Maybe they just have more money and are happy to spend it rather than waiting (and that bugs you because you can't/won't.)
I wonder which is more likely ?
Or...
Maybe they just have more money and are happy to spend it rather than waiting (and that bugs you because you can't/won't.)
I wonder which is more likely ?
10-07-2021, 11:51 AM
#1833
Rennlist Member
Im not sure dealers charging ADM inherently leaves a bad impression…its the manner in which they do it. If my dealer came out and said their first 7 GT3’s will go to the highest bidder and the rest will go to repeat customers / clients on the wait list at MSRP, and the SA / GSM regularly updates me and treats me as if he values my business- I’m OK with that.
For me to expect him to turn down $100K ADM offers is unrealistic- esp when a highly anticipated car is initially released. The problem is that many dealers jerk us around which leaves a really bad taste.
As an aside- its hard to “judge” folks who pay ADM…MSRP is an arbitrary designation. I test drove an F8 back to back with a 991.2 3RS last week and I cant say the F8 is inherently better- just different. Without knowing the MSRP’s of both cars, i’m sure there are many who would pay as much if not more for the RS. So if someone has the means, wants the 992 GT3, values it at $300K, who am I to say he’s stupid, wrong, etc?
For me to expect him to turn down $100K ADM offers is unrealistic- esp when a highly anticipated car is initially released. The problem is that many dealers jerk us around which leaves a really bad taste.
As an aside- its hard to “judge” folks who pay ADM…MSRP is an arbitrary designation. I test drove an F8 back to back with a 991.2 3RS last week and I cant say the F8 is inherently better- just different. Without knowing the MSRP’s of both cars, i’m sure there are many who would pay as much if not more for the RS. So if someone has the means, wants the 992 GT3, values it at $300K, who am I to say he’s stupid, wrong, etc?
Last edited by Fang911; 10-07-2021 at 12:03 PM.
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rhk118 (10-07-2021)
10-07-2021, 11:56 AM
#1834
Are you suggesting that it's better to make a quick buck than treat longstanding customers with respect? Not sure if you were indicating that a business owner is better to maximize profit no matter what or if you meant something else. I think this sort of behavior, in spite of "free market" discussions here is pushing the envelope. As an aside, how would we feel if our physician elected that their time in the day is only so available and a new premium was put on every time slot such that it becomes a bidding war for their time. More priority for a sooner appointment by paying twice or three times the amount, maybe more to get in ahead of others. Or if a time slot became a variable value because it was the last one left that day and it became an auction for access in that situation. It just strikes me as odd behavior. Yes they could do it, but what would we think? We could say, well they have the right to do that, but what impression would be left?
Last edited by mnawa; 10-07-2021 at 11:57 AM.
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raymort (10-07-2021)
10-07-2021, 01:11 PM
#1835
Uhm, that's exactly what happens in US medicine! Patients are evaluated on insurance coverage, for example whether they'll be sent to hospital if their insurance is not very good and possibly made to wait, vs taken to a private facility if insurance benefits permit it and faster service. The pay to play environment exists at all levels, and again, ADM on a luxury vehicle is the least offensive example.. you don't NEED a GT3 so you can walk away from the disposable income purchase.
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azzurri (10-07-2021)
10-07-2021, 01:14 PM
#1836
Um, hate to be the bearer of new news to you, but that is kinda how the US medical system works. While you may go to "public access" doctors, there are "private access" doctors that charge a Sh$% ton for access. You think the likes of Tiger Woods goes to the local general practitioner on his Blue Cross HMO plan when he is needing knee surgery? You think Tiger's doctors take Medicaid and charge Tiger the Medicaid rate? Come on...
Last edited by azzurri; 10-07-2021 at 01:56 PM.
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Rod27 (10-07-2021)
10-07-2021, 01:17 PM
#1837
Uhm, that's exactly what happens in US medicine! Patients are evaluated on insurance coverage, for example whether they'll be sent to hospital if their insurance is not very good and possibly made to wait, vs taken to a private facility if insurance benefits permit it and faster service. The pay to play environment exists at all levels, and again, ADM on a luxury vehicle is the least offensive example.. you don't NEED a GT3 so you can walk away from the disposable income purchase.
Last edited by azzurri; 10-07-2021 at 01:32 PM.
10-07-2021, 01:35 PM
#1838
Its fascinating that the debate on ADM is still ongoing.
Some dealers charge msrp. Some charge ADM.
Some people pay msrp. Some pay ADM.
Is there really anything left to discuss on this?
Some dealers charge msrp. Some charge ADM.
Some people pay msrp. Some pay ADM.
Is there really anything left to discuss on this?
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seanhaus (10-07-2021)
10-07-2021, 01:37 PM
#1839
This is not anything new to me, you aren't educating me on anything. You are not seeing my point. There are lots of people in the medical system. There are the Hondas and there are the Porsches. What I said was not whether or not the Porsche should charge differently than Honda. What I said was if you go to a Porsche doctor and then he or she decides to selectively change the cost of treatment on a scarcity basis mentality whether or not that is correct or just. That is my point.
You think Hertz pays the same for a Honda as others?
You seem to want some utopia - that’s not capitalism and certainly now how very profitable companies operate.
10-07-2021, 01:39 PM
#1840
Racer
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Talking with my SA today about a GT3 allocation they have and what sort of interest they are seeing. We frequently chat, great to have that sort of back and forth with someone in the industry. It’s crazy these ADM’s. Some GM’s out there think they can get a 100K ADM. I’m aghast. Seriously, what sort of fools pay that. Just because they can I suppose and supply is limited at present. A fool and their money will be separated.
I got a GT4 for MSRP. Ordered in December 2019, delivered August 2020. I know the first few went with ADMs, I was part of the 2nd or third allocation and there was no ADM.
An enthusiast is going to drive and service their GT cars. I doubt these unicorns who pay up for these ridiculous ADMs ever drive these GT cars as they were meant too. Most of these fellas are likely way out of shape, would pass out on a high-G carousel, and crap their pants running at full throttle from the Kink to Canada Corner at Road America. The cars are garage queens. A Trophy. Way above the talents of their unicorn owners.
Because I drive my GT4 like it was meant to be driven, I rack up some parts and service receipts over the year. Obviously they aren’t going to total to 100K in year 1. But over time, and with the additional business a happy client pushes to the dealership, it has to add up. Multiple those additional clients business, and that $100K crack hit might just be a poor decision.
Its a great product. Hard to find dealers with leadership to match.
I got a GT4 for MSRP. Ordered in December 2019, delivered August 2020. I know the first few went with ADMs, I was part of the 2nd or third allocation and there was no ADM.
An enthusiast is going to drive and service their GT cars. I doubt these unicorns who pay up for these ridiculous ADMs ever drive these GT cars as they were meant too. Most of these fellas are likely way out of shape, would pass out on a high-G carousel, and crap their pants running at full throttle from the Kink to Canada Corner at Road America. The cars are garage queens. A Trophy. Way above the talents of their unicorn owners.
Because I drive my GT4 like it was meant to be driven, I rack up some parts and service receipts over the year. Obviously they aren’t going to total to 100K in year 1. But over time, and with the additional business a happy client pushes to the dealership, it has to add up. Multiple those additional clients business, and that $100K crack hit might just be a poor decision.
Its a great product. Hard to find dealers with leadership to match.
I paid $255,236 cash for my GT3 this week because I can. It had ZERO effect on my net worth. I also bought a 255k TTS Cab and a 165k Targa 4S this year from the same dealer. Oh and I also service all of my cars with an open wallet. I bet I'm in better shape than you and my car will be at Sebring on November 7th and 8th...I wont be crapping my pants.
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10-07-2021, 01:45 PM
#1841
Um, hate to be the bearer of new news to you, but that is kinda how the US medical system works. While you may go to "public access" doctors, there are "private access" doctors that charge a Sh$% ton for access. You think the likes of Tiger Woods goes to the local general practitioner on his Blue Cross HMO plan when he is needing knee surgery? You think Tiger's doctors take Medicaid and charge Tiger the Medicaid rate? Come on...
10-07-2021, 01:54 PM
#1842
Hating on others because of their success isn’t a useful skill.
10-07-2021, 02:04 PM
#1843
I'm not talking about utopia--maybe you are overreaching with your suggestion. That's not my idea. .
10-07-2021, 02:07 PM
#1844
I have no qualms with what they charge. You aren’t forced to purchase their services. It takes a skilled doctor years of education and experience to achieve those skills, and likely a divorce or two. If they have a willing patient that wants to pay, awesome for them both.
Hating on others because of their success isn’t a useful skill.
Hating on others because of their success isn’t a useful skill.
Now here's my question for you...I can understand your sense that given it's business, all businesses should be able to charge what they want and so forth, like it or not. Do you understand that the fact that the rules change for seemingly little reason could be seen as somewhat predatory from the other side of the equation?
Last edited by azzurri; 10-07-2021 at 02:12 PM.
10-07-2021, 02:36 PM
#1845
Rennlist Member
Not sure if the medicine example is apropos here. As a nephrologist- I accept private insurance (United, BCBS, etc), Medicare, and Medicaid. For any given service ie. Level 4 office consultation- I charge all payers the same amount. They pay me what they pay me based on a contracted amount between my group/hospital and that particular insurance provider- ie. BCBS reimburses $250 / Medicare $150 / Medicaid $50 REGARDLESS of what I whether I bill them $350 or $1000. It is illegal for me to ask the patient to cover the difference between what I charge and what the payer reimburses me. It is also illegal for me to ask some people for a copay but not others (discrimination). This does not apply to fee-for-service ie cosmetic procedures that are outside the purview of insurance.
Not for profit hospitals are required to take care of people in the ER and hospital regardless of insurance status. You may wait hours, you may not like the service, but they will not turn you away because you have medicaid or are uninsured. And if you have no insurance, come into an ER with crushing chest pain consistent with a heart attack, you will be seen quickly. If the hospital is full, our ER will be on "bypass" which means they will direct ambulances to other local hospitals but that is not determined by insurance status.
Because Medicare reimbursement continues to decline while oversight / documentation becomes increasingly burdensome, some physicians have "concierge" practices. They will charge $2000/yr to 300 people and guarantee same day appointments, personal return calls for all questions, hospital visits instead of by a hospitalist, cell phone access, weekend access, minimum 30 min appointments, etc. Doesnt make sense for a young healthy individual, but can work very well for an older person with multiple medical issues. In this situation, the physician still bills insurance for the office visits.
Not for profit hospitals are required to take care of people in the ER and hospital regardless of insurance status. You may wait hours, you may not like the service, but they will not turn you away because you have medicaid or are uninsured. And if you have no insurance, come into an ER with crushing chest pain consistent with a heart attack, you will be seen quickly. If the hospital is full, our ER will be on "bypass" which means they will direct ambulances to other local hospitals but that is not determined by insurance status.
Because Medicare reimbursement continues to decline while oversight / documentation becomes increasingly burdensome, some physicians have "concierge" practices. They will charge $2000/yr to 300 people and guarantee same day appointments, personal return calls for all questions, hospital visits instead of by a hospitalist, cell phone access, weekend access, minimum 30 min appointments, etc. Doesnt make sense for a young healthy individual, but can work very well for an older person with multiple medical issues. In this situation, the physician still bills insurance for the office visits.
Last edited by Fang911; 10-07-2021 at 02:46 PM.
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