...how about this C2S? (Still trying to find my first Porsche)
02-22-2017, 05:34 PM
#16
Drifting
I agree on the pricing -- I'd be surprised if they let it go for 70k even.
That said...
Who cares what others here paid for similar cars?
1) Markets are different and that might explain some of the difference.
2) dealers are different -- some more willing or more desperate, others sure they will be able to get a higher price later.
3) Most importantly -- if this car checks all your boxes, and you try to negotiate and they won't budge, think long and hard before walking away from it. Chances of finding another silver/red combo are not great. Add in SPASM and PDCC and whatever other options it has that you want and the possibilities become even more remote. In the end, if you keep it even just 3 years, and the whole time you're thinking about "the one that got away" while driving "the one who's price was approved by Rennlist", that would just suck.
I once bought a used Turbo. Looked for 3 months for some exact specs, some of which were unusual (like sunroof delete.) Miles had to be under 15k. When I found "the" car, ironically it was located 12 miles away (I was doing a nationwide search.) Tested it and it was indeed "the" one. The guy was priced about 3k north of a reasonable deal, about 7k north of a good deal. He came down a tiny bit, maybe a grand, and then stalled. I paid it. Never thought about the price again. Drove the car for two years, 8,000 miles, and sold it for what I paid for it (Turbos were on a slight rise at the time). But even if I hadn't got what I paid (as you won't if you later sell this Carrera) it was still the correct choice.
On the other hand, if you want Silver-over-black with sunroof, PDK, and whatever else comes or doesn't come with it is okay, then hold out for the drop-dead best deal.
That said...
Who cares what others here paid for similar cars?
1) Markets are different and that might explain some of the difference.
2) dealers are different -- some more willing or more desperate, others sure they will be able to get a higher price later.
3) Most importantly -- if this car checks all your boxes, and you try to negotiate and they won't budge, think long and hard before walking away from it. Chances of finding another silver/red combo are not great. Add in SPASM and PDCC and whatever other options it has that you want and the possibilities become even more remote. In the end, if you keep it even just 3 years, and the whole time you're thinking about "the one that got away" while driving "the one who's price was approved by Rennlist", that would just suck.
I once bought a used Turbo. Looked for 3 months for some exact specs, some of which were unusual (like sunroof delete.) Miles had to be under 15k. When I found "the" car, ironically it was located 12 miles away (I was doing a nationwide search.) Tested it and it was indeed "the" one. The guy was priced about 3k north of a reasonable deal, about 7k north of a good deal. He came down a tiny bit, maybe a grand, and then stalled. I paid it. Never thought about the price again. Drove the car for two years, 8,000 miles, and sold it for what I paid for it (Turbos were on a slight rise at the time). But even if I hadn't got what I paid (as you won't if you later sell this Carrera) it was still the correct choice.
On the other hand, if you want Silver-over-black with sunroof, PDK, and whatever else comes or doesn't come with it is okay, then hold out for the drop-dead best deal.
02-22-2017, 06:39 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I'm pretty certain that much under $70 is pretty danged optimistic. Like NoGaBiker, I also spent about 3 months of looking for a 991 outfitted just the way I wanted and only found a very few (well to be honest I wanted a GTS but the prices were beyond the price promises I made to my wife... gotta watch what I promise next time!). I ended up paying about $5k more than I initially intended (and only $5k under the original asking price) but had the piece of mind that I got all of the key features I was looking for except for one that was retrofittable and I kept the price after taxes below what I had promised.
The extra $5k doesn't worry me until I see the thinking that a car like this pretty well-outfitted 2013 S you are looking at can be had for $62k... then I worry that we are sabotaging our own potential resale values by trying to see how low a number we can claim someone should be able to get a car for! I'm virtually certain that every thread like this a least one assertion of a price that is well under market realities. C'mon guys, let's argue the 991.1 prices higher so that next time I flip I can get a better sales price (yeah, I know that's a double-edged sword).
At least be sure to get a solid warranty though. The cost of repairs on these isn't cheap. Personally I'm always willing to pay more for a CPO. Let me give you my CPO thoughts: Don't forget a CPO includes not only the warranty, but the dealer typically ends up spending a fair amount taking care of all of the upcoming service items and/or tires so you don't have to worry about them for a while; especially with a car approaching 4 years and 40k miles. They also inspect the car pretty thoroughly... likely far better than a typical non-Porsche dealer. I've had the dealer show me what they did to CPO my cars and it has included things like the 4 year service on my 997.2 (plugs, air filters, oil, belt, etc.) and new tires... adding up to around $3k in service/tire costs. Altogether, to me a CPO that is well vetted, has any major service included and likely new tires, is worth paying another $5-6k for peace of mind and no worries for a year or more.
All that said, this car does look pretty nice! If this is the one for you, I hope it works out for you!
The extra $5k doesn't worry me until I see the thinking that a car like this pretty well-outfitted 2013 S you are looking at can be had for $62k... then I worry that we are sabotaging our own potential resale values by trying to see how low a number we can claim someone should be able to get a car for! I'm virtually certain that every thread like this a least one assertion of a price that is well under market realities. C'mon guys, let's argue the 991.1 prices higher so that next time I flip I can get a better sales price (yeah, I know that's a double-edged sword).
At least be sure to get a solid warranty though. The cost of repairs on these isn't cheap. Personally I'm always willing to pay more for a CPO. Let me give you my CPO thoughts: Don't forget a CPO includes not only the warranty, but the dealer typically ends up spending a fair amount taking care of all of the upcoming service items and/or tires so you don't have to worry about them for a while; especially with a car approaching 4 years and 40k miles. They also inspect the car pretty thoroughly... likely far better than a typical non-Porsche dealer. I've had the dealer show me what they did to CPO my cars and it has included things like the 4 year service on my 997.2 (plugs, air filters, oil, belt, etc.) and new tires... adding up to around $3k in service/tire costs. Altogether, to me a CPO that is well vetted, has any major service included and likely new tires, is worth paying another $5-6k for peace of mind and no worries for a year or more.
All that said, this car does look pretty nice! If this is the one for you, I hope it works out for you!
02-22-2017, 06:56 PM
#18
Race Car
I've been exploring trade values on my similar car. Based on dealer offers (allowing for fair profit), I'd say that if the car checks out mechanically, a range of 62 -72 covers lo and hi pretty well. It sure looks good!
02-22-2017, 08:05 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
just to be cautious beyond the price
1. the car sold at auction, usually porsche dealers will pick up lease returns unless either the car has an issue or they have a lot of inventory of the same car on their lot . Hopefully in this case it was the latter.
2. completely no record on car fax is somewhat of a concern. The guy could have done oil change on his own etc , but again it is concerning
3. The best after market warranty is usually offered by original manufactures i.e. CPO. I researched this subject a lot recently when i was considering buying a used M3 for my son. I read about a lot of horror stories .
4.This is a porsche , not a bread and butter honda that if there is a problem, it can be fixed relatively cheap. Labor and parts for porsche can be expensive
5. Overall, I believe for a high end car, it is safer to pay couple of thousands extra and buy from a porsche dealer unless the car is still under factory warranty so you have some protection
just my 2 cents
1. the car sold at auction, usually porsche dealers will pick up lease returns unless either the car has an issue or they have a lot of inventory of the same car on their lot . Hopefully in this case it was the latter.
2. completely no record on car fax is somewhat of a concern. The guy could have done oil change on his own etc , but again it is concerning
3. The best after market warranty is usually offered by original manufactures i.e. CPO. I researched this subject a lot recently when i was considering buying a used M3 for my son. I read about a lot of horror stories .
4.This is a porsche , not a bread and butter honda that if there is a problem, it can be fixed relatively cheap. Labor and parts for porsche can be expensive
5. Overall, I believe for a high end car, it is safer to pay couple of thousands extra and buy from a porsche dealer unless the car is still under factory warranty so you have some protection
just my 2 cents
02-22-2017, 09:03 PM
#20
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I feel like you're being a little optimistic with that offer for $62k.. If they're asking $74k, do you really expect a 16% discount? I hope you can work something out though, beautiful car.
On a sidenote, my CPO 2013 991 C2S last year had 42k miles and was $69k if that helps at all.
On a sidenote, my CPO 2013 991 C2S last year had 42k miles and was $69k if that helps at all.
I considered this car, indeed a beautiful bold silver/red. Nice options SPASM+PDCC. The red is not for everyone and will impact resale a little. The car had an empty carfax. Grand Prix motors said they bought it from Porsche Lease. I seriously doubt they will let that car go for less than 70k. Prices in the Pacific Northwest are among the highest in the US.
I agree on the pricing -- I'd be surprised if they let it go for 70k even.
That said...
Who cares what others here paid for similar cars?
1) Markets are different and that might explain some of the difference.
2) dealers are different -- some more willing or more desperate, others sure they will be able to get a higher price later.
3) Most importantly -- if this car checks all your boxes, and you try to negotiate and they won't budge, think long and hard before walking away from it. Chances of finding another silver/red combo are not great. Add in SPASM and PDCC and whatever other options it has that you want and the possibilities become even more remote. In the end, if you keep it even just 3 years, and the whole time you're thinking about "the one that got away" while driving "the one who's price was approved by Rennlist", that would just suck.
I once bought a used Turbo. Looked for 3 months for some exact specs, some of which were unusual (like sunroof delete.) Miles had to be under 15k. When I found "the" car, ironically it was located 12 miles away (I was doing a nationwide search.) Tested it and it was indeed "the" one. The guy was priced about 3k north of a reasonable deal, about 7k north of a good deal. He came down a tiny bit, maybe a grand, and then stalled. I paid it. Never thought about the price again. Drove the car for two years, 8,000 miles, and sold it for what I paid for it (Turbos were on a slight rise at the time). But even if I hadn't got what I paid (as you won't if you later sell this Carrera) it was still the correct choice.
On the other hand, if you want Silver-over-black with sunroof, PDK, and whatever else comes or doesn't come with it is okay, then hold out for the drop-dead best deal.
That said...
Who cares what others here paid for similar cars?
1) Markets are different and that might explain some of the difference.
2) dealers are different -- some more willing or more desperate, others sure they will be able to get a higher price later.
3) Most importantly -- if this car checks all your boxes, and you try to negotiate and they won't budge, think long and hard before walking away from it. Chances of finding another silver/red combo are not great. Add in SPASM and PDCC and whatever other options it has that you want and the possibilities become even more remote. In the end, if you keep it even just 3 years, and the whole time you're thinking about "the one that got away" while driving "the one who's price was approved by Rennlist", that would just suck.
I once bought a used Turbo. Looked for 3 months for some exact specs, some of which were unusual (like sunroof delete.) Miles had to be under 15k. When I found "the" car, ironically it was located 12 miles away (I was doing a nationwide search.) Tested it and it was indeed "the" one. The guy was priced about 3k north of a reasonable deal, about 7k north of a good deal. He came down a tiny bit, maybe a grand, and then stalled. I paid it. Never thought about the price again. Drove the car for two years, 8,000 miles, and sold it for what I paid for it (Turbos were on a slight rise at the time). But even if I hadn't got what I paid (as you won't if you later sell this Carrera) it was still the correct choice.
On the other hand, if you want Silver-over-black with sunroof, PDK, and whatever else comes or doesn't come with it is okay, then hold out for the drop-dead best deal.
I'm pretty certain that much under $70 is pretty danged optimistic. Like NoGaBiker, I also spent about 3 months of looking for a 991 outfitted just the way I wanted and only found a very few (well to be honest I wanted a GTS but the prices were beyond the price promises I made to my wife... gotta watch what I promise next time!). I ended up paying about $5k more than I initially intended (and only $5k under the original asking price) but had the piece of mind that I got all of the key features I was looking for except for one that was retrofittable and I kept the price after taxes below what I had promised.
The extra $5k doesn't worry me until I see the thinking that a car like this pretty well-outfitted 2013 S you are looking at can be had for $62k... then I worry that we are sabotaging our own potential resale values by trying to see how low a number we can claim someone should be able to get a car for! I'm virtually certain that every thread like this a least one assertion of a price that is well under market realities. C'mon guys, let's argue the 991.1 prices higher so that next time I flip I can get a better sales price (yeah, I know that's a double-edged sword).
At least be sure to get a solid warranty though. The cost of repairs on these isn't cheap. Personally I'm always willing to pay more for a CPO. Let me give you my CPO thoughts: Don't forget a CPO includes not only the warranty, but the dealer typically ends up spending a fair amount taking care of all of the upcoming service items and/or tires so you don't have to worry about them for a while; especially with a car approaching 4 years and 40k miles. They also inspect the car pretty thoroughly... likely far better than a typical non-Porsche dealer. I've had the dealer show me what they did to CPO my cars and it has included things like the 4 year service on my 997.2 (plugs, air filters, oil, belt, etc.) and new tires... adding up to around $3k in service/tire costs. Altogether, to me a CPO that is well vetted, has any major service included and likely new tires, is worth paying another $5-6k for peace of mind and no worries for a year or more.
All that said, this car does look pretty nice! If this is the one for you, I hope it works out for you!
The extra $5k doesn't worry me until I see the thinking that a car like this pretty well-outfitted 2013 S you are looking at can be had for $62k... then I worry that we are sabotaging our own potential resale values by trying to see how low a number we can claim someone should be able to get a car for! I'm virtually certain that every thread like this a least one assertion of a price that is well under market realities. C'mon guys, let's argue the 991.1 prices higher so that next time I flip I can get a better sales price (yeah, I know that's a double-edged sword).
At least be sure to get a solid warranty though. The cost of repairs on these isn't cheap. Personally I'm always willing to pay more for a CPO. Let me give you my CPO thoughts: Don't forget a CPO includes not only the warranty, but the dealer typically ends up spending a fair amount taking care of all of the upcoming service items and/or tires so you don't have to worry about them for a while; especially with a car approaching 4 years and 40k miles. They also inspect the car pretty thoroughly... likely far better than a typical non-Porsche dealer. I've had the dealer show me what they did to CPO my cars and it has included things like the 4 year service on my 997.2 (plugs, air filters, oil, belt, etc.) and new tires... adding up to around $3k in service/tire costs. Altogether, to me a CPO that is well vetted, has any major service included and likely new tires, is worth paying another $5-6k for peace of mind and no worries for a year or more.
All that said, this car does look pretty nice! If this is the one for you, I hope it works out for you!
just to be cautious beyond the price
1. the car sold at auction, usually porsche dealers will pick up lease returns unless either the car has an issue or they have a lot of inventory of the same car on their lot . Hopefully in this case it was the latter.
2. completely no record on car fax is somewhat of a concern. The guy could have done oil change on his own etc , but again it is concerning
3. The best after market warranty is usually offered by original manufactures i.e. CPO. I researched this subject a lot recently when i was considering buying a used M3 for my son. I read about a lot of horror stories .
4.This is a porsche , not a bread and butter honda that if there is a problem, it can be fixed relatively cheap. Labor and parts for porsche can be expensive
5. Overall, I believe for a high end car, it is safer to pay couple of thousands extra and buy from a porsche dealer unless the car is still under factory warranty so you have some protection
just my 2 cents
1. the car sold at auction, usually porsche dealers will pick up lease returns unless either the car has an issue or they have a lot of inventory of the same car on their lot . Hopefully in this case it was the latter.
2. completely no record on car fax is somewhat of a concern. The guy could have done oil change on his own etc , but again it is concerning
3. The best after market warranty is usually offered by original manufactures i.e. CPO. I researched this subject a lot recently when i was considering buying a used M3 for my son. I read about a lot of horror stories .
4.This is a porsche , not a bread and butter honda that if there is a problem, it can be fixed relatively cheap. Labor and parts for porsche can be expensive
5. Overall, I believe for a high end car, it is safer to pay couple of thousands extra and buy from a porsche dealer unless the car is still under factory warranty so you have some protection
just my 2 cents
I don't think he would even consider selling me the car.
It's kinda laughable, but maybe my naivety with P-cars is showing?
Anyway, he said bottom number is $71.5k.
Don't think he'll take my calls anymore- they've had the car for almost 90 days and still holding strong I suppose.
02-22-2017, 09:21 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Another interesting comparison point is a thread currently underway on the 997.2 forum for a well-appointed 2012 C4S PDK with 36k miles, freshly serviced with transferrable CPO. The guys there are talking about pricing it in the mid 60s.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...-with-pse.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...-with-pse.html
02-22-2017, 09:26 PM
#22
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Another interesting comparison point is a thread currently underway on the 997.2 forum for a well-appointed 2012 C4S PDK with 36k miles, freshly serviced with transferrable CPO. The guys there are talking about pricing it in the mid 60s.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...-with-pse.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...-with-pse.html
Less miles, higher MSRP, CPO and more options...
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-custo...b6ed08&url=usa
02-22-2017, 09:28 PM
#23
Doesn't seem so bad to me. If it's the car that ticks all the boxes then I'd pounce. The $2-4k you might save by waiting and searching for months is a small price to pay for convenience and the time you'll save searching. Color combo is great and the options are fantastic.
Sorry but $62k seems well below market for this car. I'm sure someone somewhere got that price on a similar car...perhaps an undesirable color or perhaps an unlucky car...but I wouldn't bank on $62k for a 2013 911S with that kind of equipment. $70k sounds about right. I paid around there for a 2012.5 with much less equipment (though it only had 10k miles).
Cheers,
NF
Sorry but $62k seems well below market for this car. I'm sure someone somewhere got that price on a similar car...perhaps an undesirable color or perhaps an unlucky car...but I wouldn't bank on $62k for a 2013 911S with that kind of equipment. $70k sounds about right. I paid around there for a 2012.5 with much less equipment (though it only had 10k miles).
Cheers,
NF
02-22-2017, 10:17 PM
#24
Racer
Here is Manheim auction pricing info for reference point on a 2013 S Coupe:
For Week Ending Feb 17
Above Average Below Dec 2016 Aug 2016 Feb 2016
Sale Price $79,201 $66,250 $53,299 $62,175 $68,125 $73,500
Odometer 13,944 27,887 41,831 48,098 26,562 13,620
Total Sold All 6 4 2 7
Feb 22 - Mar 01 2017
Above Average Below Mar 2017 Feb 2018
Auction $74,000 $65,000 $57,000 $65,000 $61,000
Est. Retail $83,000 $74,000 $65,000 $74,000 $69,000
For Week Ending Feb 17
Above Average Below Dec 2016 Aug 2016 Feb 2016
Sale Price $79,201 $66,250 $53,299 $62,175 $68,125 $73,500
Odometer 13,944 27,887 41,831 48,098 26,562 13,620
Total Sold All 6 4 2 7
Feb 22 - Mar 01 2017
Above Average Below Mar 2017 Feb 2018
Auction $74,000 $65,000 $57,000 $65,000 $61,000
Est. Retail $83,000 $74,000 $65,000 $74,000 $69,000
02-22-2017, 10:33 PM
#25
I looked at that car in December as well as the white 2014. They've not moved on the price for either car and they've had them for several months.
There is not a lot of inventory in Portland. I expanded my search and found a newer, lower mileage CPO car from Las Vegas for a little more money.
There is not a lot of inventory in Portland. I expanded my search and found a newer, lower mileage CPO car from Las Vegas for a little more money.
02-23-2017, 12:22 AM
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I looked at that car in December as well as the white 2014. They've not moved on the price for either car and they've had them for several months.
There is not a lot of inventory in Portland. I expanded my search and found a newer, lower mileage CPO car from Las Vegas for a little more money.
There is not a lot of inventory in Portland. I expanded my search and found a newer, lower mileage CPO car from Las Vegas for a little more money.
Could you give me some insights? Would much appreciate it.
After a decent amount of consideration- I like this one car in particular. I can keep trying to find a better fit that's closer to "perfect" but in reality, I'll only save myself maybe another 5k and that's not a consideration worth having if it costs me 2 months of driving time.
02-23-2017, 12:39 AM
#27
Carguru says it's been at the dealer for 82 days. I'm surprised they aren't more flexible with the price
02-23-2017, 12:43 AM
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I looked at it in person. I didn't look too closely because the color combination isn't something that appealed to me. The interior is very red. It glows red. You'll need to look at it in person to see if it is something you like.
Carguru says it's been at the dealer for 82 days. I'm surprised they aren't more flexible with the price
Carguru says it's been at the dealer for 82 days. I'm surprised they aren't more flexible with the price
Agreed that they *should* be more flexible but they're saying that they're at their cost on the car- part of me understands that they wont want to sell it at a loss.
I held out like that on my '65 and it panned out in the end. I suppose I might be the guy that it pans out on for them...
02-23-2017, 05:39 AM
#30
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The red I'm sold on- one thing I miss about the M3 I had years back was the two tone Fox Red Leather interior, this is like that but on steroids. I'm very much sold on it. I've always had a thing for off colored interiors.
Agreed that they *should* be more flexible but they're saying that they're at their cost on the car- part of me understands that they wont want to sell it at a loss.
I held out like that on my '65 and it panned out in the end. I suppose I might be the guy that it pans out on for them...
Agreed that they *should* be more flexible but they're saying that they're at their cost on the car- part of me understands that they wont want to sell it at a loss.
I held out like that on my '65 and it panned out in the end. I suppose I might be the guy that it pans out on for them...