Minesh

Good evening, I have been reading for about a year and I am about to pull the trigger on my first 911 after years in Audi's and BMW's. That being said Porsche's are a different animal completely and the Used market is even more complex and extremely spread out in values. I am a novice and don't want to make a mistake and trust in the knowledge of this forum.

I finally found a car that has the options I want (I think) but most importantly its a MANUAL which was a mandatory for me. Please take a look at the details below on the vehicle and and give me your educated thoughts on if its a good deal or if I am foolish and why. The dealer is wanting an answer from me tomorrow or they will certify the car again and raise the price. I don't intend to track the car and financially its a stretch for a weekend fun car but I decided I would treat myself if it makes sense.


2012 911S (991) White
40K miles
Full Leather
Bose
Sport Exhaust
Rear Park Assist
Light Design Package
Dynamic Light
Heated & Cooled Seats
Sunroof
Sport Chrono
Premium Package Plus
Porsche entry and Drive
20 inch wheels
Clear Bra

Any educated opinions or suggestions I can get would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and I am looking forward to being a new active member.

Dewinator

There's nothing rare about a white 911S, it's the most common color/variant, even if it's a manual. The CPO costs them $4k so if they're willing to sell CPO for 68, they're willing to go down to at least 64 non-CPO.

No SPASM too, I'd pass on this one. The only thing unique about this one is the high miles (which wouldn't bother me in itself since these cars are rock solid, but this one doesn't have anything rare about it which would give you a reason to accept it).

CSK 911 C4S

I call BS on CPO'ing a car a 2nd time.

I would walk away just because of this tactic to raise the cars price if you don't make a decision by tomorrow.

You don't mention leather interior........ I'm guessing it's just the standard vinyl?

Which Porsche dealer is this car located? I was trying to look it up if it was online.

StormRune

Here are some comments first on your direct questions and then on the comments posted so far.

Much of what you have listed either comes standard on an S (Sport Chrono, 20", PASM) or as part of the Premium Plus package (Light Design, Dynamic Lights (PDLS), Heated/Cooled Seats, Entry and Drive). It is pretty nicely filled out with the Bose, Park Assist, PSE (Sport Exhaust), Sunroof, and clear bra, especially if the bra is still in good shape and doesn't need replacing. Its not clear whether the seats are 14 way or 18 way adaptive seats (slight more adjustments and a little deeper bucket), and while I like the 18 ways and consider them a nice bonus find, the 14s are very nice too. For the price, 14 ways are just dandy.

It's a very nice car, but as Dewinator says it isn't rare (but not exactly plentiful with all of those options either) so that should give you some latitude if you decide to keep looking. Since it is an S it does have PASM (which sits 10mm lower than non-PASM), but not Sport PASM that brings the lowering to a total of 20mm. Its up to you whether that is important or not. I have a car with SPASM and PDCC, the firmest of the bunch and also 20mm lower. For me the ride isn't bad at all even when engaged... much better than I would have expected and far better than my prior 997 when PASM was turned on. So SPASM isn't a bad idea if you want maximum OEM lowering (your choice), but again, the more options you add to the list the more rare the car becomes and the pricier it gets.

The standard interior on these cars is much nicer than earlier generations and I would have been okay with that myself, although I did end up with a full leather interior and was willing to pay a bit extra once I found a car with everything else I wanted plus leather. Again, the vinyl in a 991 is nice so unless thats a big thing to you waiting for one with leather will likely increase your wait time and cost a bit more. I'd think you are fine without it since minimizing price is mentioned as a factor to you.

However, depending upon the maintenance state of the car, re-CPOing it may be a very good thing for these reasons: If the car needs new tires or any of the 40k/4yr service items are due, they get taken care of as part of the CPO process. These can add up to pretty close to the $3k difference you are seeing and if not already done at the $65k price then these may make it worthwhile. Plus you get the peace of mind of the thorough check-out of the car. My last 997 CPO included almost $3k of work, new spark plugs, new tires, new brake pads and rotors, plus oil change etc. If you go the route of approving the CPOing for these reasons, they may let you pick the tire brand too if those aren't already done. It has to be one of the N-rated tire sets for CPO.

So I think you'll want to find out the maintenance state of the car and tires first before deciding whether or not to waive CPO. A times I know I've traded in a car just before service is due to save that cost. 40k miles is a little on the high side but not bad for a 2012, but I'm guessing that is also factored into the price since that looks pretty attractive to me. Higher miles is one of the ways to make the car more affordable, but it will also mean that you'll have to sell the car for a bit less later unless you don't plan on adding too many miles yourself. Once our cars have more than 50k miles, the price decline becomes a little steeper than under 50k, but that's even less of a big deal if this is a longer term keeper. Bear in mind that once you have one of these cars, it is hard not to drive it.

Best wishes and let us know what happens!

StormRune

One more thought: Once all of the official price bargaining is done, I've typically been able to get the dealer to throw in a thing or two when I promise that "if you just add these, then we have a deal". This time I got an OEM 5mm wheel spacer set ($450 value), last time I got the side rock guards (in front of the rear wheels) replaced with fresh ones AND the latest Navigation system update, probably again a roughly $500 value. All dealers may not do this though. Ask for two or three things, settle for one unless they are holding firm.

Minesh

Thanks so much for the input guys I need all the help I can get. Here is the link to the car from last week prior to that owner trading in to the Dealership. The dealership does not have it listed yet. I do think the Dash is Leather as I think it did have stitching across it but not certain, also it does have PASM. Maybe you guys can tell from the pics?

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...35600591&Log=0

FYI regarding the comments on CPO vs not for the work that gets done. The prior owner had the 40K service done in May and all 4 wheels got NEW breaks and Rotors as well as spark plugs to the tune of $4500. The dealership that took it in showed me the service records and since it was bought new everything has been done at that dealership. The tires "I think" all have about 50% +/- left. The CarFax does show a Minor rear end ding but the paint looks perfect and they said it only looks like it was hit on the bumper...Not sure if that is BS or not.

The spacers Question or other "Add on" type things are interesting? That definitely might be something I could ask for, any other suggestions on what else I may want/need? Since it was mentioned that this S model and Color are the most common and plenty are available why am I having a hard time finding a Manual??? I can throw a rock and hit a PDK but the stick is SO hard to find in the south. Thats why I am worried if I let it go I could be waiting another 4 months till another one comes along in the same equipment and price range.

One last question....I really like the Sapphire Blue but they said its quite rare and it would hurt me on resale since its not a common color people buy. Any thoughts on that? I know most people don't like it but I really think its a sharp color...They had a GT3 in Sapphire I saw at the dealership yesterday and thought it looked amazing. It probably doesn't matter since I definitely can't find a Stick S used for sale

STG

DocMo

If you love Sapphire Blue , you should keep looking...you'll be much happier when you find the right one. Manual vs. pdk, I've always been a die hard manual guy and still love manuals, but for my 991 GTS I went with pdk, it's different but fantastic. Try one before you make a final call.
For a manual, you should also ask your sales rep about a PPI over rev report (it takes them 2 minutes to get it through the car's ECU).

STG

I'd be concerned and get a major inspection done because of the rear end accident. Don't trust what they say. A rear ender is usually a deal breaker for 90% of buyers and a $10K ding in value.

Over revs are a concern too as mentioned.

This car at this price isn't a unicorn. If it doesn't add up, there are others. We see them all the time in the "Hot for Sale Pick of the Week" stickie.

It is a nice build though!

StormRune

STG beat me to the build sheet! Nicely done. I do not see a leather dash, what you are seeing is aliasing from the poor photo quality and it's not on the option sheet.

It's easy for us to tell you to wait, but I don't think there are a lot coming through at that price point or with manual trannys. But as DocMo is observing, you have to ask yourself if you really would regret not getting your "perfect" color. I think the 991 whites look great myself though.

Have you been watching the North America site? I did for the last 3 months before buying my new car just a couple of weeks ago and didn't see all that many like this at this price... but I was looking a little newer and with PDK so I might not have paid attention to them. The North America site is here if you haven't found it, click on the Pre-Owned cars tab: http://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutpors...snorthamerica/

STG

White would be the least of my concern. Color is subjective.

The only thing that would concern me is the accident. When did it happen?? BEFORE or AFTER the current CPO??

If after the current CPO, they may not be able to recertify it anyway. Also, if it has over revs.

Looks like the car has had TWO previous owners now.

If service is up to date and has a current CPO, the price is "fair".

Anyway, I'm out. Work calls. You're in good hands here with these Rennlisters for advice. At least the ones who posted already.

spiderv6

40k miles. Not your target color. Accident history. $65K.

I can't really find a reason to say 'go for it'.

Supply is tight right now and prices seem to be holding up very well. That is priced 'robustly' but for me doesn't add up.

Follow the HFS thread, don't rush it, ad don't fall for the "you need to decide by tomorrow or xxxxx' BS from the dealer.

StormRune

On the getting-things-thrown-in thought, there's not a lot of choices for the car at a low price point. New mats or Online Services (Aha Radio when connected to a smartphone) is the only other thing I can thing of IF that is important to you. You can also ask for official bling like a jacket, shirts, etc. This time the dealership threw in a certificate for $250 from the Porsche Design store they had on premises, but that stuff is crazy expensive so I only ended up with a Porsche Design leather wallet and a shirt from that. But hey, those were free and totally unexpected... a nice plus.

R_Rated

CPO will include new tires... That's half the 3k cost. Not bad.

STG

You're making an almost $70K purchase. Forget the free pens, tshirt, or coffee mugs. You've got bigger things to worry about! Be a smart shopper not someone looking for cheap handouts.