Any former/current Audi R8 owners in here?
09-09-2015, 11:29 PM
#31
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Cayenne is probably the best of the bunch, but you pay a premium for the Porsche badge.
Have not driven the new GLE yet, but the previous ML was not very inspiring.
09-09-2015, 11:33 PM
#32
Race Director
Any former/current Audi R8 owners in here?
Originally Posted by ipse dixit
I would take the X5 (M version, or not).
Cayenne is probably the best of the bunch, but you pay a premium for the Porsche badge.
Have not driven the new GLE yet, but the previous ML was not very inspiring.
Cayenne is probably the best of the bunch, but you pay a premium for the Porsche badge.
Have not driven the new GLE yet, but the previous ML was not very inspiring.
What's with Mercedes and the ugly oversized tablet/iPad wanna be that looks like they just glued to their dashes? They didn't even attempt to integrate it at all!
09-09-2015, 11:38 PM
#34
09-09-2015, 11:42 PM
#35
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
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I think the X5 used to be one of the better selling BMW models, until BMW decided to desegmentize and slice and dice the market for SUVs into the X1, X3, X4, and the "GrandCoupes".
09-10-2015, 09:19 AM
#36
It is hard to see profit on these cars at all. They take about 10X as long to build as a 911, and a lot of exotic castings and hand-fabrication. Putting a new engine in means a lot ofthings..
new wiring harness
new lines
new mounts
and don't forget they have to do all of the CARB and TUV certification all over again.
If they can't update the NAV, they ain't gonna do the motor! They probably only added the DSG because it cost less than the R-tronic.
Still....hats off to audi for what they accomplished. A custom vehicle that re-invigorated Audi. With BMW becoming the new "Buick"...there are less and less gems like the 991 and R8.
09-10-2015, 10:19 AM
#37
I would like those red RS5 cam covers, but they would be mostly hidden in the R8's engine bay anyway!
09-10-2015, 11:24 AM
#38
Rennlist Member
Basically, the costs are like an Audi...lol!
That means pretty darn low. My first 6K miles required nothing in costs, and the first service is covered. You can drive the V8 daily and put lots of miles on them, if you choose.
The V8 engine is basically an RS4 motor, so it is reasonable to service. They can only have an R8 tech work on it, so some things take longer, but they don't charge more. Most of the other parts are cleverly "off the shelf" from other audis. For example, the steering rack is an A6 part.
The V10 is a different animal as far as costs. Now you have a lambo engine and all the things that go with that. They are still reliable as hell, but I would not want to have to buy a new motor on one...
That means pretty darn low. My first 6K miles required nothing in costs, and the first service is covered. You can drive the V8 daily and put lots of miles on them, if you choose.
The V8 engine is basically an RS4 motor, so it is reasonable to service. They can only have an R8 tech work on it, so some things take longer, but they don't charge more. Most of the other parts are cleverly "off the shelf" from other audis. For example, the steering rack is an A6 part.
The V10 is a different animal as far as costs. Now you have a lambo engine and all the things that go with that. They are still reliable as hell, but I would not want to have to buy a new motor on one...
09-10-2015, 11:34 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
Well, that just made it worse IMO. Audi took a unique design and turned it into a VW minivan.
We have a Q7 Prestige S Line. Motor has a lot of power, but that's the only good thing I can say about it. Every week something else breaks on it. Like being pecked to death by ten chickens. And between the supercharger and the lazy transmission, the lag is horrible. Need to merge quickly? Mash the gas pedal and count to three. And it eats very expensive tires. For breakfast, lunch and dinner. I would literally have a party if someone stole that thing. I love Audi, but the quality on this thing is horrible.
We have a Q7 Prestige S Line. Motor has a lot of power, but that's the only good thing I can say about it. Every week something else breaks on it. Like being pecked to death by ten chickens. And between the supercharger and the lazy transmission, the lag is horrible. Need to merge quickly? Mash the gas pedal and count to three. And it eats very expensive tires. For breakfast, lunch and dinner. I would literally have a party if someone stole that thing. I love Audi, but the quality on this thing is horrible.
We were in the market for a larger vehicle with third row seating and went with a GL550 with ACS (Active Curve System). I believe ACS is like PDCC and is phenomenal in transforming the driving experience on these big SUVs.
The GL450/550 is due for a facelift that will hit the stores this time next year - probably to be called the GLS.
We also test drove the Cayenne GTS (great handling), Escalade (very nice inside but drives like the truck it is), Range Rover Sport (V8 supercharged is a hoot) and the new Volvo XC90 (couldn't get over the 4cyl supercharged turbo, but by far the freshest interior and best tech for the money).
09-10-2015, 12:20 PM
#40
Re: Why Audi updated to the S-Tronic on the R8...
More than likely, it is due to cost.
It is hard to see profit on these cars at all. They take about 10X as long to build as a 911, and a lot of exotic castings and hand-fabrication.
Putting a new engine in means a lot ofthings..
new wiring harness
new lines
new mounts
and don't forget they have to do all of the CARB and TUV certification all over again.
If they can't update the NAV, they ain't gonna do the motor! They probably only added the DSG because it cost less than the R-tronic.
Still....hats off to audi for what they accomplished. A custom vehicle that re-invigorated Audi. With BMW becoming the new "Buick"...
there are less and less gems like the 991 and R8.
It is hard to see profit on these cars at all. They take about 10X as long to build as a 911, and a lot of exotic castings and hand-fabrication.
Putting a new engine in means a lot ofthings..
new wiring harness
new lines
new mounts
and don't forget they have to do all of the CARB and TUV certification all over again.
If they can't update the NAV, they ain't gonna do the motor! They probably only added the DSG because it cost less than the R-tronic.
Still....hats off to audi for what they accomplished. A custom vehicle that re-invigorated Audi. With BMW becoming the new "Buick"...
there are less and less gems like the 991 and R8.
Indeed, it would have posed a technical & cost challenge to them.
But you would be wrong about the reason why they added the new S-Tronic for the facelift R8 in MY2014. It was not cost - in fact it was
very expensive for them to do since it was all developed internally. The reason for doing it was market necessity (read customer demand)
due to the constant & nearly universal complaints about R-tronic.
For anyone interested in this topic, below was the report I posted on the Teamspeed Audi forum back in March of 2013 after meeting
Stephan Reil, head of Technology Development at Quattro GmbH at the introduction of the revised US MY2014 R8 (MY2013 in ROW):
Just got back from this two day event. My wife and I arrived Thursday at the Carneros Inn in Sonoma, a very nice facility where Audi hosts folks invited by them to participate at track events at the near by Sonoma Raceway. At 7 pm, our group of 26 or so where bused to a lovely dinner at the El Dorado Kitchen at in Sonoma proper. The host for the dinner was Alan Cruciani, Regional Marketing Manager for Western US. This was the official kick start for the intro to the revised MY2014 R8. Not surprisingly, Audi released pricing that very day on it's US R8 models!
The next morning we were bused to Sears Point - Sonoma Raceway. We were first taken to Audi's permanent welcome center at that facility which hosts it's 'Audi Sportscar Experience' in the US. We could see over 25 of the MY2014 R8's ready to go, some in the autocross parking area and the rest on the track. Essentially, out driving experience for the day was an abbreviated 'Sportscar' day - car control exercises at the track & autocross parking field and then 'follow-the-instructor' track laps at increasing speeds. After a very nice lunch, we were allowed to take various other Audi models for a test drive on the roads of Sonoma. I drove a RS5 and a very comfortable S8! The event ended for us around 4 pm. We returned to the Carneros Inn and cooled down by the pool until 6 pm. Then we headed back home to Carmel!
All the R8's in attendance were the new S-Tronic transmission vehicles. There was a mix of v8's and v10's. There were even two Spyders in the mix. These many R8's at Sonoma is unusual. The normal retinue of R8's at the school is usually much less. The reason for these many cars was that Audi was also having dealer reps from many countries coming to Sonoma Raceway to be introduced to the revised model. While we were there a large contingent of Japanese Audi dealers were present, although they were never mixed with our group.
Audi brought several heavy hitters from Germany & elsewhere for these R8 presentations. Chief among them was Stephan Reil, head of Technology Development at Quattro GmbH. Also present was Klaus Demel, Head of Audi Driving Experience (worldwide) based in Ingolstadt and Mark Fruechtnicht, Product Manager for A & B segments based in Herndon, Va.
I had an extensive conversation with Stephan Reil about the revised R8 and related topics. Here are the highlights:
1) Do not expect the 'new' R8 model for at least 3/4 years. So this revised R8 .2 version should be with us for at least MY2015 and MY2016!
2) That 'new' R8 will be evolutionary design and everyone will recognized it as an R8 because of its resemblance to the current model.
3) The reason Audi's latest technology (e.g. navigation) is not present in revised R8 is because it requires total redo of wiring, etc which can only be done with next model, not revised current platform.
4) Audi will introduced a 'sport bucket seat' with airbags (which would be certified & homologated on its US R8's) on next R8 model), so don't expect to see them until then!
5) R8 does not offer torque vectoring because it's not needed in a mid-engine platform as an R8.
6) They are studying whether or not to offer a .2 version of the R8 gt in the next few years before the new model arrives. He doesn't want to pissed off the customers that bought the .1 version, which was a limited run of 300+ cars. But he didn't completely shut the door on it either. I could see them offering a .2 version of this car, perhaps offering current gt owners an opportunity to get one on a preferential basis. But this is my own thoughts, not those of Stephan.
7) I told him that our Audi instructors had asked us to use S-Tronic in Manual form and not Automatic with Sport. In a Porsche, instructors recommend PDK in Sport Plus and not worry about manually shifting while on the track. He told me that he recommends Manual operation of the S-Tronic on the track.
8) Almost all R8's at the event had the optional Ceramic brakes. There only two or three with the new 'wave' design steel rotors. Stephan explained it was done to save weight and the idea came from motorcycles brakes that have found them very effective. Apparently saves around 9 pounds on a car, but it's all unsprung weight!
9) Another R8 owner present asked Stephan about the ESP off button. Reil said that the first push of 'off' button allows a wider latitude for the stability and traction controls. So you are able to drift a bit without the nannies taking back control. But if you hold the button down for over 3 seconds, you turn off both traction control and stability control off. And unlike in a Porsche, BMW or my Mini JCW, the nannies are truly off until (I think) you turn off the car. It doesn't come back on if the computers senses 'something' is going wrong. You are, from that point forward, on your 'own'! This is done to accommodate the advanced skills of drivers, some of which use left foot braking to modulate attitude on turns, etc. Word of caution, don't press the 'off' button for more than 3 seconds unless you have near professional levels of driving skills!
The general consensus of folks familiar with the R-Tronics in our group was that the S-Tronic was terrific. I found it perfectly fine...for track application. I am a committed manual transmission enthusiast and S-Tronic didn't changed my mind. What it became very clear from the talks was how expensive and how much effort it took for Audi to adapt the R8 to dual clutch transmission. It was developed in-house, not any transmission specialist company, because it had to be adapted specifically to the R8! Development started in 2006 and it was finished around 2011. It helps explains the incredible high cost of S-Tronic as an option for MY2014.
I drove both v8's and v10's at the track. I prefer the balance of the v8, its lesser weight and its overall demeanor! So I am very happy with the decision I recently made to purchase a 2011 v8 Manual Spyder! I will also post photos of some of the new interior & exterior 'details' I noticed on the revised R8's on my next post!
Again, I want to thank Davin Sanford, Internet Manager for getting me invited to this great event!
The next morning we were bused to Sears Point - Sonoma Raceway. We were first taken to Audi's permanent welcome center at that facility which hosts it's 'Audi Sportscar Experience' in the US. We could see over 25 of the MY2014 R8's ready to go, some in the autocross parking area and the rest on the track. Essentially, out driving experience for the day was an abbreviated 'Sportscar' day - car control exercises at the track & autocross parking field and then 'follow-the-instructor' track laps at increasing speeds. After a very nice lunch, we were allowed to take various other Audi models for a test drive on the roads of Sonoma. I drove a RS5 and a very comfortable S8! The event ended for us around 4 pm. We returned to the Carneros Inn and cooled down by the pool until 6 pm. Then we headed back home to Carmel!
All the R8's in attendance were the new S-Tronic transmission vehicles. There was a mix of v8's and v10's. There were even two Spyders in the mix. These many R8's at Sonoma is unusual. The normal retinue of R8's at the school is usually much less. The reason for these many cars was that Audi was also having dealer reps from many countries coming to Sonoma Raceway to be introduced to the revised model. While we were there a large contingent of Japanese Audi dealers were present, although they were never mixed with our group.
Audi brought several heavy hitters from Germany & elsewhere for these R8 presentations. Chief among them was Stephan Reil, head of Technology Development at Quattro GmbH. Also present was Klaus Demel, Head of Audi Driving Experience (worldwide) based in Ingolstadt and Mark Fruechtnicht, Product Manager for A & B segments based in Herndon, Va.
I had an extensive conversation with Stephan Reil about the revised R8 and related topics. Here are the highlights:
1) Do not expect the 'new' R8 model for at least 3/4 years. So this revised R8 .2 version should be with us for at least MY2015 and MY2016!
2) That 'new' R8 will be evolutionary design and everyone will recognized it as an R8 because of its resemblance to the current model.
3) The reason Audi's latest technology (e.g. navigation) is not present in revised R8 is because it requires total redo of wiring, etc which can only be done with next model, not revised current platform.
4) Audi will introduced a 'sport bucket seat' with airbags (which would be certified & homologated on its US R8's) on next R8 model), so don't expect to see them until then!
5) R8 does not offer torque vectoring because it's not needed in a mid-engine platform as an R8.
6) They are studying whether or not to offer a .2 version of the R8 gt in the next few years before the new model arrives. He doesn't want to pissed off the customers that bought the .1 version, which was a limited run of 300+ cars. But he didn't completely shut the door on it either. I could see them offering a .2 version of this car, perhaps offering current gt owners an opportunity to get one on a preferential basis. But this is my own thoughts, not those of Stephan.
7) I told him that our Audi instructors had asked us to use S-Tronic in Manual form and not Automatic with Sport. In a Porsche, instructors recommend PDK in Sport Plus and not worry about manually shifting while on the track. He told me that he recommends Manual operation of the S-Tronic on the track.
8) Almost all R8's at the event had the optional Ceramic brakes. There only two or three with the new 'wave' design steel rotors. Stephan explained it was done to save weight and the idea came from motorcycles brakes that have found them very effective. Apparently saves around 9 pounds on a car, but it's all unsprung weight!
9) Another R8 owner present asked Stephan about the ESP off button. Reil said that the first push of 'off' button allows a wider latitude for the stability and traction controls. So you are able to drift a bit without the nannies taking back control. But if you hold the button down for over 3 seconds, you turn off both traction control and stability control off. And unlike in a Porsche, BMW or my Mini JCW, the nannies are truly off until (I think) you turn off the car. It doesn't come back on if the computers senses 'something' is going wrong. You are, from that point forward, on your 'own'! This is done to accommodate the advanced skills of drivers, some of which use left foot braking to modulate attitude on turns, etc. Word of caution, don't press the 'off' button for more than 3 seconds unless you have near professional levels of driving skills!
The general consensus of folks familiar with the R-Tronics in our group was that the S-Tronic was terrific. I found it perfectly fine...for track application. I am a committed manual transmission enthusiast and S-Tronic didn't changed my mind. What it became very clear from the talks was how expensive and how much effort it took for Audi to adapt the R8 to dual clutch transmission. It was developed in-house, not any transmission specialist company, because it had to be adapted specifically to the R8! Development started in 2006 and it was finished around 2011. It helps explains the incredible high cost of S-Tronic as an option for MY2014.
I drove both v8's and v10's at the track. I prefer the balance of the v8, its lesser weight and its overall demeanor! So I am very happy with the decision I recently made to purchase a 2011 v8 Manual Spyder! I will also post photos of some of the new interior & exterior 'details' I noticed on the revised R8's on my next post!
Again, I want to thank Davin Sanford, Internet Manager for getting me invited to this great event!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
09-10-2015, 12:25 PM
#41
Any idea what exactly was "new" about the RS5 4.2l motor? Other than HP all the specs appear to be the same. Later R8 V8s did get a supposed 10 HP boost, but the major revisions to this original RS4 motor was converting it to dry sump lube for the R8. I've read intake and exhaust (of course) were different, and any applicable tweaks were brought to the R8 with the HP bump.
I would like those red RS5 cam covers, but they would be mostly hidden in the R8's engine bay anyway!
I would like those red RS5 cam covers, but they would be mostly hidden in the R8's engine bay anyway!
09-10-2015, 03:29 PM
#42
Doc, you are right about the reasons they didn't install the updated RS5 engine or the better Navigation into the first generation R8.
Indeed, it would have posed a technical & cost challenge to them.
But you would be wrong about the reason why they added the new S-Tronic for the facelift R8 in MY2014. It was not cost - in fact it was
very expensive for them to do since it was all developed internally. The reason for doing it was market necessity (read customer demand)
due to the constant & nearly universal complaints about R-tronic.
For anyone interested in this topic, below was the report I posted on the Teamspeed Audi forum back in March of 2013 after meeting
Stephan Reil, head of Technology Development at Quattro GmbH at the introduction of the revised US MY2014 R8 (MY2013 in ROW):
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
Indeed, it would have posed a technical & cost challenge to them.
But you would be wrong about the reason why they added the new S-Tronic for the facelift R8 in MY2014. It was not cost - in fact it was
very expensive for them to do since it was all developed internally. The reason for doing it was market necessity (read customer demand)
due to the constant & nearly universal complaints about R-tronic.
For anyone interested in this topic, below was the report I posted on the Teamspeed Audi forum back in March of 2013 after meeting
Stephan Reil, head of Technology Development at Quattro GmbH at the introduction of the revised US MY2014 R8 (MY2013 in ROW):
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
If only I could have both the 991 and the R8....
09-10-2015, 03:32 PM
#43
Doc, you are right about the reasons they didn't install the updated RS5 engine or the better Navigation into the first generation R8.
Indeed, it would have posed a technical & cost challenge to them.
But you would be wrong about the reason why they added the new S-Tronic for the facelift R8 in MY2014. It was not cost - in fact it was
very expensive for them to do since it was all developed internally. The reason for doing it was market necessity (read customer demand)
due to the constant & nearly universal complaints about R-tronic.
For anyone interested in this topic, below was the report I posted on the Teamspeed Audi forum back in March of 2013 after meeting
Stephan Reil, head of Technology Development at Quattro GmbH at the introduction of the revised US MY2014 R8 (MY2013 in ROW):
http://teamspeed.com/forums/performa...nia-april.html
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
Indeed, it would have posed a technical & cost challenge to them.
But you would be wrong about the reason why they added the new S-Tronic for the facelift R8 in MY2014. It was not cost - in fact it was
very expensive for them to do since it was all developed internally. The reason for doing it was market necessity (read customer demand)
due to the constant & nearly universal complaints about R-tronic.
For anyone interested in this topic, below was the report I posted on the Teamspeed Audi forum back in March of 2013 after meeting
Stephan Reil, head of Technology Development at Quattro GmbH at the introduction of the revised US MY2014 R8 (MY2013 in ROW):
http://teamspeed.com/forums/performa...nia-april.html
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
09-10-2015, 06:17 PM
#44
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As a long time 911 fan, owned a Carrera 18 years ago, I had an internal battle deciding between the R8 V8 MT and the 991 S (GTS was just coming out). Received my R8 late May and I am really enjoying it. Really love the MT, shifts very easy, and now that I have 3000 kms, i have started revving the motor higher. Wonderful noises, excellent build quality. What I dislike is the large doors, everything else is great.
09-10-2015, 09:33 PM
#45
Case in point is the V10, developed by Audi for the Lambo Gallardo. When it showed up in Audi sedans and the R8 (in a different state of tune, of course) it was supposedly a "different" motor also. Now the V10 in the new R8 and the Huracan have identical output and Audi admits they are the same motor.
The 4.2 V8 has been Audi's big engine forever. They tune it up for use in the RS4 (and then the R8) and then suddenly decide to develop an all new 4.2 V8 for a limited production run of the RS5 based on the V10? Highly unlikely! I'll bet the real story is the Lambo/Audi V10 was originally developed from their 4.2 V8, and the RS5 simply has a less restrictive exhaust then the R8 - end of story!