midcont

I don't know. I feel like people looking for used 911's tend to be enthusiasts who couldn't buy it new. I think that there is probably a higher percentage of this group who want a manual than the initial group buying it new. I also think that in a few years the availability of new cars with manual will be that much lower and the manuals will be more sought after. If you can't buy a new 911 with a manual then and you want the newest 911 you can get, you're looking for a 991.1 manual.

chuck911

What do you estimate the future availability of people able to drive a manual will be?

solomonschris

I think that supply/demand is an immutable law. There is far greater demand for dual clutch over manual transmissions, even when you must pay, in the case of the 991, over 4K extra to make the choice. The fact that the dual clutch out performs the manual will likely appeal to many used buyers. Now if the PDK starts becoming an expensive and likely maintenance item post warranty, the price of a manual equipped car will spike up. With that said, my next car will be a manual, I just miss shifting.

chows4us

Not relevant. Does the lack of qualified mechanics able to tune and sync the 6 webers in a 250 GTO drive down the price of a $35M classic? (not trying to compare a Ferrari with any Porsche - just the point).

Rarity drives prices up regardless of the ability of those to utilize the product. Maybe not in the near term but for collectors in the long term. The more PDK units sold, the higher prices the MT cars will draw as the years go by and MT disappears from the marketplace.

Watch BJ auctions some time and listen when they talk about a car where only so many of a certain color or so many with a certain transmission/engine combination were made in a year. Low numbers matter, rarity matters.

Besides, no one can steal the car because they can't drive it

solomonschris

Rarity does not make anything valuable. If it did, the picture in my high school yearbook would be worth a fortune. The rare item has to be desireable to be valuable. To be really, really valuable it has to be desired by many rich folks, or sometimes just two really rich guys in an auction. What BJ does is try to create rarity where it doesn't really exist. This is one of only 73 yellow Dodge Darts with a blue top, radio delete, chrome air cleaner, etc, etc.They are really good at it and are making a huge amount of money, but I think many of their buyers are delusional.

Archimedes

Since I'll likely be dead before my 7MT ever gets sold, I'll let my kids worry about that.

chows4us

I didn't say rarity in of itself was the "sole" attribute to drive up prices. I said Rarity drives prices up regardless of the ability of those to utilize the product.

I see the fact that many might not know how to drive a MT not relevant to auction prices. While some collected cars might be driven, I suspect most are no different than those that collect rare stamps or coins - that is - just admired.

solomonschris

I agree chow. I guess it was your mention of JB that caused my response. It is true, however, that rarity does not drive up prices without demand, irrespective of whether the buyer can utilize the product. In any case, I meant no disrespect....Chris

chows4us

I think we agree. Sure BJ does everything they can to get more money. No doubt.

I just had the feeling that the previous poster was trying to say that the lack of people able to drive a MT might ultimately have an effect in future prices in the long term, something I seriously doubt. Then again, maybe he wasn't trying to make that point either.

Penn4S

First of all its not that difficult to learn to drive a manual properly. My sons first car was a six speed manual which he learned to drive in about 2 hours. From there he went on to owning several manuals including a 400 hp STI. He will be a future Porsche owner. So ability to drive won't be the deterrent.

As far as value. It's really all about desirability, uniqueness, and what someone really believes something is worth owning. I would guess there isn't anyone on this forum that would turn down a classic 930 slant nose turbo because it doesn't have PDK. In most cases driving that car wouldn't be the same unless it was manual. So who really knows. Who would have thought early on that driving basically an automatic transmission high performance sports car would be the norm. No offense meant at all.

I'm not driving a manual transmission P car out of some nostalgic rejection of modern technology, it is just my preference for now. And I don't think that will change totally as time moves forward for future buyers.

PCA1983

That's a hefty price if reliability becomes an issue.
For me manually selecting the gear I'm in seems more natural than playing games with the PDK electronics to make it do what I want.

freeman

So, I have just gone through the exercise. Owned 4 manual Porsches and then bought a C2 PDK in 2013. I began missing the MT despite the paddles. I took delivery of a MT GTS last week. Resale value had nothing to do with my decision.

aggie57

And can I just say that is a very smart looking GTS.

chuck911

Has anyone mentioned the time factor? "Resale" to me sounds like a few years, maybe 5 to 10 tops. Over that time frame I doubt if there will be much difference in the two. PDK is so common because lots of people want it, while there are enough manuals out there for the small slice who don't want PDK. The difference being its today's small slice that makes up the bulk of buyers in the future thirty years from now when the few cars left that have been kept in excellent condition begin selling for more than when they were new. So 30+ years from now yeah, it would not surprise me if the "resale" is higher for a manual. In the meantime, I'll be checking this weeks 5 day weather forecast and watching to see how that one plays out!

chows4us

Sure. A quick check of Black Book, KBB, and NADA shows that a 2013 C2S in trade is worth zero, and then between 1 - 1.6K extra, meaning that a $4K option has dropped to roughly 75% to 100% in value, depending upon who you believe. I would suspect it has no value when the car is 4 years old for all three of these.

After that, it depends upon when PDK is dropped from the 911 C, CS, and CGTS entirely. At this point MT might be reintroduced to the GT3, and obviously is part of the GT4. They could make it a GT car exclusive option. If PAG does not drop it entirely, then the timeline shifts out. But the handwriting is on the wall as there will come a time that its not fiscally responsible to produce both transmissions for the mainstream vehicles.

But sure, time matters and when the value of PDK crosses zero in the trade-in/resale markets will be telling. I suspect that time will be within two years for a 2013 car.