PDK vs 7MT
05-02-2015, 05:17 PM
#46
Banned
Can't tell if you're joking or not. You do know its not just the case, right? The whole layout of the manual, including 90% of the parts and 5 of the 7 gears, is PDK. Which can be manually shifted using the gear shifter on the console, the paddles on the wheel, or automatically by the accelerator. In other words PDK already is your best of both worlds hybrid. Except (heavy sigh) it does not use a clutch pedal. Does your proposed hybrid include a clutch pedal?
05-02-2015, 05:30 PM
#47
Banned
I'm just trying to help the crowd betting on the over with respect to 7 pages. BUT, while I'm here, I was thinking about this during my Saturday morning motorcycle ride. My bike has a quick shift - both up and down. You have to use the clutch to get going, but once you're rolling, you can either use the clutch or not use the clutch. It's kind of great. My Ducati riding friend thinks I'm missing the pleasure when I don't use the clutch, but its awfully convenient to not have to mess with it in some situations. It'd be great to have this option in a car.
05-02-2015, 05:47 PM
#48
Next question though- would it be a dummy clutch, sort of a fail-safe you have to press to shift but that's all it does? Or would it work in clutch mode to override the PDK computers and allow complete manual clutch control enabling drivers to do everything they have come to love doing with clutches? You know, popping, slipping, burning out….? (The clutch, I mean. And the tires. Both.) Being Porsche I'm sure they would be able to make it do everything drivers have come to expect, like saving you from yourself, clutch pedal not returning fully…. like that?
Last edited by chuck911; 06-25-2015 at 04:43 PM.
05-02-2015, 05:56 PM
#49
Banned
Okay, great! So basically what it would be then is today's PDK, with the addition of a clutch pedal and a clutch mode where it won't shift until you first depress the clutch. You would of course be able to shift with the lever or paddles, as long as you first depress the clutch. That would be pretty cool! Chris Harris would probably even include a clutch pic in his review! Next question though- would it be a dummy clutch, sort of a fail-safe you have to press to shift but that's all it does? Or would it work in clutch mode to override the PDK computers and allow complete manual clutch control enabling drivers to do everything they have come to love doing with clutches? You know, popping, slipping, burning out….? (The clutch, I mean. And the tires. Both.) Being Porsche I'm sure they would be able to make it do everything drivers have come to expect, like saving you from yourself, clutch pedal not returning fully…. like that?
05-02-2015, 06:13 PM
#50
05-02-2015, 07:08 PM
#51
Banned
It wouldn't be as complicated. For example. Let say the clutch and gear linkage had an electronic solenoid that would separate the linkage from the transmission and the pedal from the slave cylinder. Once you engage the PDK button one. It would go full auto. PDK button two paddle shift. Even if you move the shifter by mistake or hit the clutch nothing would happen. Something to that respect.
Last edited by jimbo1111; 05-02-2015 at 08:52 PM.
05-02-2015, 10:07 PM
#52
I have an '85 Ford Mustang (please don't judge) fitted with a Hurst shifter. It must be some kind of Sportomatic PDK because once it's moving I can shift it without using the clutch but it's not an automatic because if I don't shift it it doesn't shift. Also, it's not a boat so it doesn't have paddles.
05-02-2015, 11:24 PM
#54
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Well said. drove several cars with PDK equivalent including 991s. They feel like regular automatic in normal driving, and in quick driving it is certainly quick and efficient, so much so that it discourages pulling the paddled. The end result is PDK feels less involving to me. Love my 7mt, but wish for a more fun shorter gearing and closer ratios. So what if pdk is a little faster at launching and on a circuit. From roll though I was able to keep up with PDK. And that feels pretty good, and so would posting a quicker lap around a circuit vs a PDK car.
Having just traded my C4S PDK for a C2 GTS 7MT I have a new found respect for the 7MT.
Obviously, on a track or closed environment, the PDK is quicker with its rapid fire shifts while in SportPlus. That point has been proven time after time with professional drivers and all of the testing.
I have had quite a few 911s (996, 997, 997.2, 991) and all have been manual with the exception of the '15 C4S. I too was sold on PDK based upon all of the reviews and praise that the PDK has received.
Having driven the C4S for a month, while I loved it, it felt like something was missing to me. Like most of us, my 911s are mainly driven day to day, around town, running errands, out to dinner or the movies, etc... Around town and in these situations, the PDK is basically an automatic, almost boring if you aren't driving hard. Stop light to stop light, riven casually, the car feels asleep and boring. When situations and opportunities allow for some fun, the car wakes up quickly but still "thinks" for you.
The 7MT, on the other hand, feels alive, connected, and quicker around town, and connected. I'm sure sitting in traffic isn't as relaxed at it is with the PDK, but the feeling of control keeps you focused, active, and smiling. The 7MT feels substantially quicker around town and, to me, involving.
The PDK in regular mode feels so boring, no different than any other automatic. I highly recommend giving the 7MT a serious chance, just a great car and so much more involving.
Obviously, on a track or closed environment, the PDK is quicker with its rapid fire shifts while in SportPlus. That point has been proven time after time with professional drivers and all of the testing.
I have had quite a few 911s (996, 997, 997.2, 991) and all have been manual with the exception of the '15 C4S. I too was sold on PDK based upon all of the reviews and praise that the PDK has received.
Having driven the C4S for a month, while I loved it, it felt like something was missing to me. Like most of us, my 911s are mainly driven day to day, around town, running errands, out to dinner or the movies, etc... Around town and in these situations, the PDK is basically an automatic, almost boring if you aren't driving hard. Stop light to stop light, riven casually, the car feels asleep and boring. When situations and opportunities allow for some fun, the car wakes up quickly but still "thinks" for you.
The 7MT, on the other hand, feels alive, connected, and quicker around town, and connected. I'm sure sitting in traffic isn't as relaxed at it is with the PDK, but the feeling of control keeps you focused, active, and smiling. The 7MT feels substantially quicker around town and, to me, involving.
The PDK in regular mode feels so boring, no different than any other automatic. I highly recommend giving the 7MT a serious chance, just a great car and so much more involving.
Last edited by SB; 05-02-2015 at 11:44 PM.
05-03-2015, 12:16 AM
#55
Its impossible to know if the RWD is livelier or not without knowing which transmission it has. If manual, then not only is it livelier, its alive. The C4 with PDK is, sadly, inanimate. (At least until it wakes up.)
05-03-2015, 02:15 AM
#56
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Sorry, people keep saying both transmissions are great and that simply is not true.
The MT should not have had 7 speeds, there was simply no good reason to do this. Just get rid of 7th and make 6th longer and it would be a better gearbox. Having 5 gears on the top row to find is simply too many and it compromises the gearbox.
The MT should not have had 7 speeds, there was simply no good reason to do this. Just get rid of 7th and make 6th longer and it would be a better gearbox. Having 5 gears on the top row to find is simply too many and it compromises the gearbox.
05-03-2015, 02:34 AM
#57
Rennlist Member
Okay, great! So basically what it would be then is today's PDK, with the addition of a clutch pedal and a clutch mode where it won't shift until you first depress the clutch. You would of course be able to shift with the lever or paddles, as long as you first depress the clutch. That would be pretty cool! Chris Harris would probably even include a clutch pic in his review!
Next question though- would it be a dummy clutch, sort of a fail-safe you have to press to shift but that's all it does? Or would it work in clutch mode to override the PDK computers and allow complete manual clutch control enabling drivers to do everything they have come to love doing with clutches? You know, popping, slipping, burning out….? (The clutch, I mean. And the tires. Both.) Being Porsche I'm sure they would be able to make it do everything drivers have come to expect, like saving you from yourself, clutch pedal not returning fully…. like that?
Next question though- would it be a dummy clutch, sort of a fail-safe you have to press to shift but that's all it does? Or would it work in clutch mode to override the PDK computers and allow complete manual clutch control enabling drivers to do everything they have come to love doing with clutches? You know, popping, slipping, burning out….? (The clutch, I mean. And the tires. Both.) Being Porsche I'm sure they would be able to make it do everything drivers have come to expect, like saving you from yourself, clutch pedal not returning fully…. like that?
Does it have to be a R-hand drive car, Chuck, or could we try it in a L-hand drive for non-UK/Aus/NZ/India/HK?
05-03-2015, 05:06 AM
#58
Sorry, people keep saying both transmissions are great and that simply is not true.
The MT should not have had 7 speeds, there was simply no good reason to do this. Just get rid of 7th and make 6th longer and it would be a better gearbox. Having 5 gears on the top row to find is simply too many and it compromises the gearbox.
The MT should not have had 7 speeds, there was simply no good reason to do this. Just get rid of 7th and make 6th longer and it would be a better gearbox. Having 5 gears on the top row to find is simply too many and it compromises the gearbox.
Oh well. Anyway, this is only a problem for the manual. Excuse me. Only a problem for the driver of the manual. But hey, his fault. Shoulda gone PDK!
There is by the way a perfectly good reason why the manual needs those 7 gears: its really the PDK transmission without the "D". If it weren't for that there'd be no manual. The manual exists only because they were able to base it on PDK and use PDK sales volume to make the manual cost effective. PDK, the automatic transmission that makes the manual transmission possible! Is that great, or what?
05-03-2015, 07:57 AM
#60
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1) improved gas mileage. Tell me how many 400-430 HP cars can get 30 mpgs cruising (70 mph on highway).
2) engine runs cooler. Ever watch your oil temp after a good run? Jump back on the highway, 7th gear, bam, oil temp drops down from 210-220 to mid 190s.
Last edited by LexVan; 05-03-2015 at 08:15 AM.