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Mr Elberoth- I have a very stupid question. I know nothing about audio. My car is a 2013 C2S coup with a Bose system. No PSE. I do not play music while driving because the car is so noisy. To hear any descent part of the music, the volume is too loud to be pleasant. Do these modifications suggested in this thread help this problem? Thanks.
I have a ‘16 Targa GTS with Bose. Of the many things I enjoy about this car is driving with the top back, the PSE exhaust and listening to good music.
I agree. In stock form, the Bose system screams at you. Yet, with a little equalization, I can enjoy listening to music, with the top back all while enjoying the exhaust note. Of the negative reviews the Targa receives, wind noise is one of the highest.
Chopping out some of the midrange makes this system much easier on the ears. Even with the extra needed volume to overcome the wind and exhaust.
Unfortunately, I’m limited only to music from my iPhone. I use an iAudioGate app to play my iTunes library through. It has a 10 band equalizer that can easily be turned on and off to compare the difference. Below are the settings that I use 99% of the time. I use the bass and treble settings in the head unit to fine tune.
Just static impedence, with an ohm meter.
I know that is almost pointless, as its dynamic impedence, that really matters. But thats more involved to measure and plot.
You rock. I've been trying to figure this out for myself. Frankly the soft top end of the Bose tweeter I can live with and adjust with that fabulous 10 band EQ app calle Equ that I'm using. But the bass...or lack of bass...that gets me. I don't want to invest $3k in just getting a little more bottom end.
I would love to know what you find out! Good job!!
ps I may possibly just put one of those little Kenwood KSC-SW11 powered subs behind the drivers seat. I think it will suffice.
You rock. I've been trying to figure this out for myself. Frankly the soft top end of the Bose tweeter I can live with and adjust with that fabulous 10 band EQ app calle Equ that I'm using. But the bass...or lack of bass...that gets me. I don't want to invest $3k in just getting a little more bottom end.
I would love to know what you find out! Good job!!
ps I may possibly just put one of those little Kenwood KSC-SW11 powered subs behind the drivers seat. I think it will suffice.
Not familiar with "Equ" app, however with the EQ settings that I posted in a previous post using iAudioGate, the bass is much less muddy and hard hitting: enough to feel, hear and shake the rear and side view mirrors at volume. With the EQ in the app, I dial down some of the lower frequencies, allowing me to "up" the bass setting in the head unit. I usually run between 3 and 5 on the head unit's bass setting, depending on the mix of the source music.
I've spent a lot of time adjusting the EQ settings in this app with the Bose system in my 991. Although I had a few different versions of the settings, they all resembled the same basic shape as in the graphic that I posted. Scooped mids to get rid of the scream, along with dropping the high highs and the low lows. This EQ is not "driving" friendly to change. The settings that I arrived at however work well it most instances, using the head unit's Bass and Treble controls to (more safely) fine tune while driving.
Is there an easy way to attenuate the subs so I can increase the bass without increasing the subs so much?
If you're in a 991.1 with Bose you should try just disconnecting the subwoofer altogether. In my opinion the door woofer's bass output is much more accurate and immediate so the system sounds better without it. There's a tiny amp dedicated to the subwoofer that lives just above the passenger kick panel. Single plug that can just be disconnected without issues.
If you're in a 991.1 with Bose you should try just disconnecting the subwoofer altogether. In my opinion the door woofer's bass output is much more accurate and immediate so the system sounds better without it. There's a tiny amp dedicated to the subwoofer that lives just above the passenger kick panel. Single plug that can just be disconnected without issues.
Thanks! I'll take a look this weekend and give it a shot.
Following the logic, that you get what you pay for; it makes sense to look at Burmester prices, to see where the corners got cut by Bose.
Items that cost triple are probably worth looking at.
In the case of the Bose, that is the Tweeters and Sub Driver.
Surprisingly all other drivers and amps don't have very large price differences.
My biggest complaint was the dull highs from the cl0ck radi0 grade Bose Tweeter in the dash.
I decided to try replacing it with the Burmester Tweeter, to see what happened.
Guess what, it worked great and sounds far better.
There is clarity and dynamics in the sound, that was missing before.
To assure it was not a placebo effect, I took measurements.
I confirmed Phase and Frequency Response.
Where Bose was rolling off at 5.5KHz, the Burmester Tweeters were flat to 8KHz and levels blended in nicely.
The main improvement is that the highs are not shrill. They just provide the desired dynamics, very transparently. The effect is like having a new set of mid range drivers.
Makes sense, since an AMT Driver has more effective surface area and frequency range, than many other tweeter types.
Before this, I could not stand to listen to Bose on Surround Mode. Now Surround Mode is kind of a toss-up, depending on taste and content.
These are my latest settings (as of 1/26/15):
Bass +2, Treble -1, Surround Off & Linear On.
(Pre-upgrade settings were; Bass -2, Treble -2, Surround Off & Linear Off.)
Although Surround Mode is better, post-upgrade, I found it's best to leave it off for best overall sound quality.
When parked, Linear On sounds better, but you may need Linear Off, when driving, to get the bass boost, to overcome road noise (just drop Bass to -1, if you do put Linear Off).
So do the tweeters just plug in?
Yes, although the connectors are different, they do work.
Line up as shown in picture and press the connector in.
I mounted w/ Factory Speed Nuts and Bolts.
Perhaps the Speed Nut is not the right part number but it works, if you grind it down.
Otherwise, it is too wide to let the tweeter body fit.
Note: the speed nuts install sideways.
Use a Grinding Wheel and take their width down (on both sides) from 15mm to 13mm.
Basically, get them as thin as you can, without over weakening the u-clip on each end.
Hardest part is removing the Tweeter Grills.
The forward and inside Grille Clips just pop loose.
However, the rear clip (nearest you) has prongs that don't let it release.
To get it loose, you need to pull the air vent, drop the air duct and squeeze that clip with needle nose pliers or similar.
Grill removal may best be left to a dealer, if you are not the patient methodical type.
Thank you for a very helpful and detailed write up.
I am upgrading my entire system and am considering changing the tweeters to either:
1) Burmeister ribbons
2) Morel silk soft some tweeters
3) Dynaudio Esotec MD102 (sold by Musicar)
May I ask would you rate the Burmeister Ribbons? If you could go for an aftermarket option like above would you over the Burmeister?
The sub was a bit of a pain to R&R, but no big deal, if you are determined and don't trust anyone else to do it.
I was able to plug into the existing Bose Sub Amp (using my "custom" adapter harness) and the Bose Sub Amp handled it fine.
The sound settings (above post #55) were key in sending enough low frequency signal to the sub, as there was almost no bass with Linear ON.
I don't know that you "need" a complete speaker swap, I think the Sub and Tweeter were all that needed to change.
Although expensive, this Burmester Sub must be custom designed to work in the 911's dash cavity.
I don't see how else it could work as well as it does.
It's far superior to the old Bose Sub.
I know this post was ages ago but wanted to ask please what is involved in the “custom” adapter harness to use the Burmeister sub with the Bose amp?
Seriously? Its all in the ol' noggin. Once I learned to read, off and running. Waiting for mom at the grocery store checkout I would read Reader's Digest cover to cover. The first real book I remember reading was called Red Giant's and White Dwarfs by NASA scientist Robert Jastrow. Red Giants and White Dwarfs (Third): Robert Jastrow: 9780393850048: Amazon.com: Books That was in 3rd grade. And yes I did understand it. By then I'd already learned about atoms and astronomy, physics and fusion, so it all made sense.
On the other hand I was very slow and backwards at some things that it seemed all the other guys got easily. Like, believe it or not, cars. When I took auto shop in high school it was not like the other guys to avoid 'real' classes but to actually learn how cars work- a subject I was miserable at and nearly failed. In fact I learned almost nothing. Until I had my own motorcycle and car to maintain. Then I learned- and realized my failure to learn had nothing to do with me. It was all down to people who never really understood what they were doing, and so not understanding were incapable of teaching. So I learned not to put my faith in authority or titles, you really need to always be questioning and thinking for yourself. Since then this has come up a million times over, from Mountaineers summit attempts blown because the 'leader' got disoriented (i.e., lost) (I knew where we were but I wasn't The Leader) to the ludicrous break-in 'debate' of science and reason vs authority.
In this case I've loved music from birth. Built my first amp at 13. Built my own turntable about a decade ago. http://www.teresaudio.com/fame/40.html Before that, designing my home theater, I tried something I hate doing, hiring a professional- actually a well-respected high-end audio place called Definitive Audio. Until I walked in on the designer penciling out room nodes and realized I'm paying this boob to do what I already know how to do…. arrgh! Its all in The Complete Guide to High-End Audio: Robert Harley: 9780978649319: Amazon.com: Books
These things all build on each other. Acoustics and electronics are the same in a cathedral or a car. But you can't rely too much on books (another form of 'expert' 'professional' 'authority') either. To the best of my knowledge no one has satisfactorily explained why a CD player sounds better with a phone book on it, why the soundstage is so much more palpably real when speaker cables are elevated off the floor, or for that matter why a simple power cord can transform a system. The phone book is admittedly subtle, but the others I guarantee you anyone coming over for a demo will hear -and probably be astonished at- the difference.
Its pretty cool. Nowhere near as cool as Alan Watts, but its up there.
I know this post was ages ago but wanted to ask please what is involved in the “custom” adapter harness to use the Burmeister sub with the Bose amp?
Doesn't seem that long ago to me...
The adapter is just speaker cable with male & female quick-disconnects, on each end.
I don't recall the size, but I think they were .187" on the Bose side and .250" on the Bermister side.
Below are the pics I posted of it.
If you have trouble finding the connectors. let me know.
I might still have some laying around, that I could send you.
Doesn't seem that long ago to me...
The adapter is just speaker cable with male & female quick-disconnects, on each end.
I don't recall the size, but I think they were .187" on the Bose side and .250" on the Bermister side.
Below are the pics I posted of it.
If you have trouble finding the connectors. let me know.
I might still have some laying around, that I could send you.
Thank you for the response. Does this sub change make a difference? I am debating between a costly aftermarket sub and amp be just the BM tweeter and sub.
Thank you for the response. Does this sub change make a difference?
I am debating between a costly aftermarket sub and amp be just the BM tweeter and sub.
Yes it makes a difference, more so, if you also upgrade the amp.
It's still only a 5" speaker, so a good 6-1/2" or larger aftermarket sub, will outperform it.
It just depends on your willingness to integrate a larger sub into the interior vs settling for a small factory sub.
In retrospect, I think a full Amp & DSP upgrade is needed to tighten up bass, from the door speakers.
That would have been my next project.
So good to hear from another Alan Watts fan. I haven't read his books, only listened to hours and hours of his talks on youtube. He may be dead, but his thoughts are very much alive. Which is fitting I guess for the man who said you never really die, you are the eternal thing that comes and goes. You are the Eternal Universe - Alan Watts - YouTube
Man. I say replying to this as off topic is incredibly ironic. But thank you for posting this. My eyes are wide open.
05-29-2018, 11:56 PM
