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If anyone wanted to give this a try, I'm selling a set of Burmester tweeters & grilles for $270 shipped (vs $440 new). I bought new in August '16, sold the car though. Just PM me.
Sorry, let me try this again. I have a lot of digital files in different formats. I saved a variety to a USB stick to see what PCM would accept. The upper limit was 16:44 in the WAV format. Fortunately it does accept WAV files with ID3 tagging so the album artwork shows up on the display.
Also, (I've posted this elsewhere) I'm using a 256GB USB stick to hold my music. This works well though it does take about 60 seconds to index all the songs every time I start the car. I tried a 1TB USB powered spinner, it would power the drive but it never indexed it - so 256GB it is.
Which PCM are you using? Because from what I've been able to tell the PCM4 in my 2017 is limited to 10k tracks per the two SD slots and USB socket. The internal jukebox is limited to 5k tracks. You can have all slots filled but you'll only be able to browse from one of them at time.
Thus if you're using lower-fidelity formats like MP3 it's pointless to use SD cards larger than 64gb. Lossless formats, of course, will require more disk space, so larger cards would help. I don't typically bother so I've never had to do the calculations on how large a drive it'd take before hitting the 10k limit.
I have installed the Ferrari tweeters in my Cayenne 958 with Bose stereo.
Both tweeters measure much closer than I would have thought (both measurements taken with the grilles off, with a calibrated iMic microphone and AudioTools app on my iPhone; settings: Bass -2, Treble -1):
The plot is much smoother around 1kHz with the JBL/Ferrari tweeter and less peaky @ 10kHz. The upgraded tweeter also sounds cleaner and more detailed (even though it is ~1dB lower in level).
Both tweeters come with with 4.7uF capacitor, which forms a 1-st order crossover @ 8kHz.
I have ordered a good quality metallised polypropylene film capacitors (Monacor MKPA) to replace that $0.01 electrolytic cap that comes with them:
That should open up the sound even further, as the quality of the capacitor forming the high pass filter network, has a substantial influence on sound quality. I hope it will fit, as the space is tight under the tweeter.
BTW - 5 out of 6 tweeters that came from the Scuderia have small dimples on the aluminium dome:
All tweeters came in Ferrari sealed boxes, tightly wrapped in a plastic foil (it was definately NOT a shipping damage or a damage made @ Scuderia Car Parts; the tweeters must have been put into those boxes like this).
It does not effect the performance (neither measured nor subjective) one bit and since the tweeters are hidden behind the grills - the Ferrari owner will not notice that cosmetic defect, but still - when buying a factory Ferrari part, one would expect to get them in perfect cosmetic condition.
Did anyone of you have similar experience with those tweeters ?
I have installed the Ferrari tweeters in my Cayenne 958 with Bose stereo.
Both tweeters measure much closer than I would have thought (both measurements taken with the grilles off, with a calibrated iMic microphone and AudioTools app on my iPhone; settings: Bass -2, Treble -1):
The plot is much smoother around 1kHz with the JBL/Ferrari tweeter and less peaky @ 10kHz. The upgraded tweeter also sounds cleaner and more detailed (even though it is ~1dB lower in level).
Both tweeters come with with 4.7uF capacitor, which forms a 1-st order crossover @ 8kHz.
The analyzer definitely won't show you every characteristic of the sound, just the major peaks and valleys in the response. It's also tough to gauge the tweeters performance with this given that the rest of the speakers are playing at the same time. I believe your two peaks(~1k & 10k) are a product of the native EQ curve built into the Bose amplifier. Here's the flat electrical signal that's sent to the midrange/tweeter in that car:
Notice the same two peaks. Of course, this won't translate perfectly into the acoustic response, but it will definitely affect it. I'm also curious if that 1k spike is actually the tweeters or just an artifact from something like microphone position. The acoustic response of the factory-style tweeters has them falling off hard at about 4-5Khz and not playing a whole lot of information below that. Even our Musicar upgraded tweeters are around -10db @ 1Khz, and that's with a 30mm diaphragm that has a 1.3Khz resonant frequency.
I think the two elements that factor into the sound change here are – 1) better diaphragm composition which results in more linear response and 2) the decreased efficiency of the new tweeter attenuated the output relative to the other speakers in the car. This can shave off some of the brightness and make the system sound more detailed and accurate at the same volume levels.
How much did that upgrade end up costing if you don't mind me asking?
I've been writing for AUDIO magazine for the past 25 years and had a short car audio stint in my career (even won car audio Pro 600 class back in 1999), so I know my share about the usefulmess/limitations of measurements
May I ask how did you measure the high level signal coming from the amp ?
I would expect that there is an electronic crossover with high pass filter (on the tweeter) and a combination of low and high pass filters on mids and mid woofers deployed. The graph you posted looks more like a regular RTA grap with a full range signal (although badly equalized).
Those Ferrari F12 tweeters were 125 EUR (~$150) + shipping.
Mr Elberoth- I have a very stupid question. I know nothing about audio. My car is a 2013 C2S coup with a Bose system. No PSE. I do not play music while driving because the car is so noisy. To hear any descent part of the music, the volume is too loud to be pleasant. Do these modifications suggested in this thread help this problem? Thanks.
No, they won't. You need to add some sound deadening meterials to the reduce the road noise. There are companies that specialize in this kind of service. Also many car audio companies do that. This is a very effective way of reducing the road noise. The penalty (beside the cost) is added weight - you can pick up an extra 10-20lbs easily.
I've been writing for AUDIO magazine for the past 25 years and had a short car audio stint in my career (even won car audio Pro 600 class back in 1999), so I know my share about the usefulmess/limitations of measurements
May I ask how did you measure the high level signal coming from the amp ?
I would expect that there is an electronic crossover with high pass filter (on the tweeter) and a combination of low and high pass filters on mids and mid woofers deployed. The graph you posted looks more like a regular RTA grap with a full range signal (although badly equalized).
Those Ferrari F12 tweeters were 125 EUR (~$150) + shipping.
I figured you had a bit of knowledge in the category, just wasn't certain to the extent.
That high-level signal was actually measured directly at the amplifier output channel that feeds the left midrange and tweeter in the Porsche Bose system. They actually share a channel on the amplifier and the 4.7uf electrolytic is the only passive crossover in the whole system(if you can call it that). The midrange plays all the way down to 100hz and up as far as the tweeter does, but rolls off naturally long before either of those frequencies. The "heavily" EQ'd potion of that signal is what happens in the Bose amplifier even with the PCM EQ set to flat. Bose has made a name in the industry for years by taking sub-par quality components and applying EQ to make them sound more linear than they actually are. That's why we see this response from the RTA on the electrical signal.
The woofers at the base of the doors have their own discreet channels and this is the electrical signal sent to them:
Overlapping those two would actually translate well to the acoustic response you posted earlier. This measurement at the doors is also why I advise unplugging the factory subwoofer in the 911 and Boxster/Cayman since the doors play a lot more bass information and do it in a much more accurate form.
No, they won't. You need to add some sound deadening meterials to the reduce the road noise. There are companies that specialize in this kind of service. Also many car audio companies do that. This is a very effective way of reducing the road noise. The penalty (beside the cost) is added weight - you can pick up an extra 10-20lbs easily.
Sound deadening material on backside of door panel
Rear Wheel Housing
Sound deadening Material Added to Rear Wheel Housing
Originally Posted by porscherex
Thank you.
Porscherex, to help mitigate the road noise in my Pcar I added sound deadening material (Soundskins) to both door panels and the bottom sections in the larger speak or woofer cutouts. I also added foam adhesive pads as well. To mitigate the road noise I also added sound deadening material on the inside section to the rear wheel housing liners. I must add this mod definitely reduced the road noise. Lastly, I also plugged the “Simposer” to reduce engine noise. Since my car has PSE I definitely hear the exhaust with the windows crack/down or the sunroof tilted/opened.
02-16-2017, 09:25 PM
