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Obviously if you enjoy driving, you'll get the MT.
Helpful facts like that aside, I love my MT - ~6500 miles, always a pleasure.
For commuting it's a tougher call, but I'll also admit to not commuting in mine because it's my fun car for wineries and twisty back roads more than the highway. For that, I wouldn't take an auto in any case.
Huh, this post still isn't really helpful.
Originally Posted by mrsmitty
I chose a manual because I find automatics boring. I enjoy rowing my own gears. My first two cars I owned were autos. When I purchased a Honda Prelude years ago with a manual I was hooked. I swore never again would I ever buy a automatic unless it simply wasn't available anymore.
I have used the PDK on the track with a C2S. I know I could never row gears well enough to keep up. Despite being slightly slower I still love the feeling of the car with a manual transmission, it is something that is just hard to describe how it feels but it is much more enjoyable to me.
There's absolutely no question that PDK is the superior technology, and PDK cars will be faster than MTs regardless of how skilled the driver is. I was about to order PDK on my 981S, but fortunately I was given a 997 with PDK as a loaner when I had my 997S in for servicing. It's about a 40 minute drive from the dealership to my home. For the first 15 minutes of the drive, I was blown away with the PDK, but for the last 15 minutes I was down right bored.
So my advice to any first time PDK buyer is to take an extended test drive in a 991 with PDK. If you enjoy the driving experience after 30 minutes +, then PDK will likely be a good choice for you. Unfortunately as others have posted, MT cars will likely not be an option in a few years.
I know what you mean. I bought a manual in my Porsche because the GM automatic in my mom's '82 Caprice sucked.
Oh, wait, no, I didn't, because that is a completely different gearbox. You can't judge the PDK by whatever hunk of junk BMW is shipping in the modified taxicabs they call "sports cars."
(Edit: That comment sounds harsher than I really meant it to, but I'll let it stand because you're something like the third person in the thread who has argued for the manual because they were bored or otherwise disappointed with another manufacturer's DCT. There is a reason why the PDK is literally the standard of the world. When a manufacturer designs a new sports car, they don't have their engineers order a BMW and take it apart with a screwdriver.)
+1 I cant wait for the lease on my X5 to run out (replacing it with the GTS Cab) the main reason I HATE that car is the STEPTRONIC ... no ... wait ... SLOTHTRONIC... even the xDrive50 M Sport with the power upgrade still drives like a harbor tug thanks to the eGas and SLOTHTRONIC s/w ... which
as far as I can tell consists of one piece of code:
shiftUp() {
if (RPM>=2500) transmission(UP);
}
if you put it in sport mode it changed the constant 2500 to about 3000 ...
AWESOME - NOT ... I'm never buying another BMW again M or otherwise
I wonder what Tiptronic S is like ... isnt it also made by ZF too?
I don't know if anybody has noticed but with the MT in sport plus it matches revs automatically on downshifting. This is done very quickly and with surgical precision. This same type of downshift occurs in any mode with the PDK. Now here's the point....when I downshift my MT, off of sport plus mode, I downshift much more languidly, meaning I use much more trailing throttle to slow the car with the engine compression. This creates a smooth transition effect. I, for one, relish this special driving sensation. You cannot achieve this same feeling with the PDK. That's what's missing, I think without the manual box, not to mention the extra sixty pounds the PDK carries, which is a minor penalty.
I don't know if anybody has noticed but with the MT in sport plus it matches revs automatically on downshifting. This is done very quickly and with surgical precision. This same type of downshift occurs in any mode with the PDK. Now here's the point....when I downshift my MT, off of sport plus mode, I downshift much more languidly, meaning I use much more trailing throttle to slow the car with the engine compression. This creates a smooth transition effect. I, for one, relish this special driving sensation. You cannot achieve this same feeling with the PDK. That's what's missing, I think without the manual box, not to mention the extra sixty pounds the PDK carries, which is a minor penalty.
contrarily one of the major contributors to the new 991 GT3s superior performance is the integration of the engine and PDK, and the ability to shift in less than 100ms resulting in no discernible interruption of power delivery that a manual cannot match...
not advocating for PDK, since I am keeping my GT3 because its the last of the G50 manuals ... just pointing out the benefits of PDK transmission
Sadly that's also a good description of the PDK's behavior in automatic non-Sport mode. I usually drive in auto mode, so if it weren't for the Sport button I'd probably be banging the manual drum louder than anybody else here.
I wonder what Tiptronic S is like ... isnt it also made by ZF too?
Sadly that's also a good description of the PDK's behavior in automatic non-Sport mode. I usually drive in auto mode, so if it weren't for the Sport button I'd probably be banging the manual drum louder than anybody else here.
I guess I will be pressing the sport button a LOT then in my new car
I test drove the PDK and after 5 min I found it extremely boring and was really missing the manual. I also got a loaner car with the PDK and drove it for a couple days and it really made me miss the manual.
Maybe my definition of "better" is different than some, but something that takes away the fun of driving is not a superior technology in my opinion. Maybe in the future Porsche will offer a car you can "drive" around the track that doesn't even require you to sit in the car and will run off programming for the optimal track time. Is technology that takes you away from driving the car really "superior" technology if it's faster?
Are most people who care so much about shift times with the PDK professionals drivers who are making a living on these fractions of a second? Part of the reason I bought the 991 vs a faster car like the Corvette is how it feels to drive. The whole reason I bought a sports car is to enjoy the driving process and the manual transmission is a huge part of that process.
I don't know if anybody has noticed but with the MT in sport plus it matches revs automatically on downshifting. This is done very quickly and with surgical precision. This same type of downshift occurs in any mode with the PDK. Now here's the point....when I downshift my MT, off of sport plus mode, I downshift much more languidly, meaning I use much more trailing throttle to slow the car with the engine compression. This creates a smooth transition effect. I, for one, relish this special driving sensation. You cannot achieve this same feeling with the PDK. That's what's missing, I think without the manual box, not to mention the extra sixty pounds the PDK carries, which is a minor penalty.
I am not sure that the PDK and the 7MT box in the 991 actually differ by 60lbs (could be vs G50) since both transmissions share considerable components in common:
Regardless the computer brain and all those advantages of PDK, IMO, manual has the cool factor like you're fully controlling the car - esp if someone special is sitting next to you But I have PDK for a single reason that I hate using a clutch in a traffic jam.
I've read almost all threads dating back to 2012 on the PDK vs manual question.
Still I cannot decide. All my cars so far were manual, but now just out of curiosity I would like to try something different. I like the technical aspect of the PDK, I like how fast it is etc. Now I have an allocation for the GTS4 - will be a dd car- and have to finalize the transmission.
My main problem is, what to do with my left foot??!! When I testdrive a PDK car, instinctively I try to push something with my left foot (thin air) when I change gears. I do not like the car changing gears for me, so I would use the PDK in manual mode. (I got a PDK Panamera for two days when my RS was serviced and after a while just left it in auto mode since the switches on the steering were unintuitive.) So here is my question to those who switched form a manual car to PDK; are you missing the manual? Is it as satisfying as the manual? Do you left foot brake? Do you keep it in manual mode or auto?
Thanks
If you have to ask the question, go with the MT.
Those who enjoy the MT, know it the moment they get behind the wheel and light up the car.
Not saying one tranny is better than the other, but those that prefer the PDK and not miss the MT just sort of know it.
I am not sure that the PDK and the 7MT box in the 991 actually differ by 60lbs (could be vs G50) since both transmissions share considerable components in common:
A quick scan of Porsche's website shows the factory weight figures for PDK equipped 991 models is 20 kg (44 lb) more than the 7MT.
I test drove the PDK and after 5 min I found it extremely boring and was really missing the manual. I also got a loaner car with the PDK and drove it for a couple days and it really made me miss the manual.
Maybe my definition of "better" is different than some, but something that takes away the fun of driving is not a superior technology in my opinion. Maybe in the future Porsche will offer a car you can "drive" around the track that doesn't even require you to sit in the car and will run off programming for the optimal track time. Is technology that takes you away from driving the car really "superior" technology if it's faster?
Are most people who care so much about shift times with the PDK professionals drivers who are making a living on these fractions of a second? Part of the reason I bought the 991 vs a faster car like the Corvette is how it feels to drive. The whole reason I bought a sports car is to enjoy the driving process and the manual transmission is a huge part of that process.
I have always been a manual transmission fan . . . always having a 911 since 1971. My desire for a clutch began to crumble after having the GM 700-R4 automatic transmission in my '91 Chevy pickup "beefed" up with shift kit and higher speed torque converter. With the Comp cam, roller rockers, headers, and computer chip pumping up the 350 V-8 engine with a 4.10:1 positraction; the snap shifts are a kick and makes the automatic great fun to drive.
So I am at a Porsche Club dinner last year seated across from a BMW driver who had returned to the Porsche fold with a new Boxter after a 15 year absence in the BMW club . . . explaining why I was considering a manual seven-speed in my new 991 Carrera S I planned to order. The BMW driver took on the challenge pointing out the PDK is not the Tiptronic and launching into its merits. Started me thinking about entering the 21st century after driving my current '74 911 for almost 40 years with a 5-speed manual transmission.
This group sealed my fate along with seeing 85% to 90% of new Porsche sales ordering PDK since they can't be that wrong. So my 2015 Carrera S on the boat right now approaching the Panama Canal has PDK and paddle shifters behind the good looking Sport Design wheel.
Of course I will keep my '74 911 with 5-speed manual for awhile in case I am totally wrong about a car with "Drive" position on the console . . . .
The BMW guy is right of course, but considering how many people talk like PDK is just another Tiptronic automatic you can be forgiven for thinking that too. In reality, the diagram Larry posted above, the PDK and 7MT cutaway that has been posted here before, shows the two gearboxes are virtually the same. The only real differences are the concentric drive shafts, wet multi-plate clutches and some shifting parts. Even the gear ratios, if you look at a chart, are identical. (They made third taller on the 7MT, while the rest are the same, putting that car at a disadvantage the whole time its in 3rd.)
So the PDK and 7MT transmissions are virtually identical in terms of structure and function. Drive either car in any gear other than 3rd and you'll never know the difference. Realize this and a huge amount of PDK criticism evaporates into thin air.
What about shifting? Porsche designed PDK with so much flexibility about the only things you can do with the 7MT that you can't with PDK are burnout and skip gears. But a 911 is already far down the list of cars you'd be doing burnouts in, and PDK shifts so fast it'll go from 1st to 7th faster than you can do with the 7MT anyway. In terms of driving use and flexibility, again, they are virtually identical.
There is however one thing the 7MT has that PDK does not: a clutch pedal.
That's it: the clutch pedal.
Knowing how otherwise identical these transmissions are, whenever you hear anyone getting all worked up about how engaging and involving the clutch pedal is, how no sports car should ever be made without a clutch pedal, how bored to tears they got in 5 minutes driving without a clutch pedal, just imagine every time they say clutch pedal they mean manual.
Or vice versa.
I think you will enjoy your new Carrera just fine, even without the clutch pedal.
I'll be picking up my 997.2 turbo with PDK... for the fist time I'm buying an automatic (wife's cars not included). I drove a friend's 911 with PDK to make the decision, and for the purpose of the car (and me modding it) it is the right choice - quarter and half mile events - launch control. :reckon:
But I have no doubt that there will be times I'm going to miss the manual so I'm searching for (never ending search) for the right 964 with stick.
11-08-2014, 02:24 PM
But I have PDK for a single reason that I hate using a clutch in a traffic jam.
