MarcusG

While we are exploring the ideas of men and life, people and power...

What were the thoughts of you guys during the early 70's emissions power reduction nightmare and gas crisis?? You know when a 6.6 liter Trans Am made only 200 hp. ?? That was a bit before my time. I do remember being in the car seat and my father leaving the chalky blue Vega station wagon in line at the gas station overnight because the license plate ended in an odd number. It must have been 1978 or something like that. Lots of yelling going on!

Is going turbo really being forced upon us because of emissions AND making the same or more power or is it that the EU just has less red tape than America and can act quickly. ? Just asking.

coxswain

Quoted from the above article:

"Porsche is developing a brand new turbocharged V8 to slot into the Cayenne which should allow it to lap the Nürburgring even faster.
Irrelevant though it is, it is impossible not to admire the fact that the current Cayenne Turbo S can get around the Nordschleife in 7min 59sec, some seconds faster than
the original Porsche 911 GT3 of 1999."



A Cayenne beat the GT3 in Nürburgring? Even if it was a 1999 GT3?
(Maybe the 2030 Cayenne will beat the current 2015 GT3? I know that will be impossible. But it's kinda funny to think.)

997rs4.0

Yes, turbo is definitely forced upon us and the manufactures! PAG is not happy about this situation! It's obviously effecting company's like Porsche and Ferrari more than VW and Volvo! Where driving impression/feel is maybe number 3-4 on their list after safety etc, etc. But everyone has to play by the rules. Even if it makes no sense! But I guess as owners of these dinosaur old great cars we shouldn't complain! dde03dde03dde09dde09

Petevb

Not impossible. Inevitable.

Thirty years ago the fastest supercars, ie Ferrari 288 GTO, ran 0-60 in about 5 seconds. Today you can turn similar times in a mid-priced sedan, and it will stop and turn competitively to boot. Today's hypercars, like the 918, run low 2s zero to 60. So where will sedans and minivans be in 30 years? Technology marches on. Tesla's are already running 0-60 in 3.2 in a four door sedan, expect the model X to be similar...

The weak link in the chain is of course us. Cars are getting faster, but drivers are not getting better. Race cars stopped getting faster when they hit the limit of the driver- Group B in the 80s, F1, etc- today rules limit the cars to something that won't get people killed. On the street we use speed limits and sophisticated electronics, traction and stability control without which more supercars would already be undrivable. But as long as people keep paying for faster cars manufactures will keep making them. Question is, at what point is faster not better, certainly for the road? And have we reached that point already? What happens when we do?

chuck911

The gas crisis was (as usual) a self-inflicted combo of too much government and not enough brains. My favorite example is while filling my Honda CB-350 with its max 3 gal of gas, some old timer pulled up next to me, stuck the nozzle in his huge gas guzzler, and instantly a half a gallon sprayed all over the place. It was full! This guy lived a block away, never drove anywhere, but it was "his day" to buy gas, and by God he was buying gas! This old guy spilled his, but I knew lots of people doing the exact same thing, just getting less on the ground.

Six months later R&T came out with an article analyzing the "crisis." First they looked at industry production and inventory levels before and during, to quantify exactly what was the "shortage". Then they looked at several surveys showing how much gas people have in the tank on average. Before it was about 40% full. During the crisis this increased to 60%. They then multiplied the difference in gallons by the number of cars on the road. And as you can probably guess by now, it equalled the "shortage" almost exactly.


None of the above. We're getting turbo's because an unelected and unaccountable global ruling class has decided the way to corral the whole human race is through fear of a global climate crisis that can only be averted by reducing manmade CO2. CO2 is a trace element, not even high on the list of greenhouse gases (#1: water vapor!) and anyway manmade CO2 is far down the list below cows, termites, trees, plankton and volcanoes. But people are so damned spray gas on the ground ignorant - and these people are so determined- that none of that matters.

If you can't see that, well just stop taking the blue pill and try the red one for a change.

MarcusG

Thanks Chuck!


I'm glad I watched the first Matrix movie. Only that one though. None of the others.

Petevb

Let's keep this kind of thing in P&C rather than risk sinking a thread, shall we? Both political and controversial.

STG

These unfounded laws should be C&P criminal and punishable!

chuck911

Agreed. But as you can see it is all part of a system so diabolically clever they even have us doing their policing for them. The minute one of us pipes up with the truth, another one jumps on him with PC code crap like controversial, political, whatever. As if PDK/MT isn't controversial, as if the whole topic of Porsche and Ferrari and every other carmaker being forced into designs for political reasons isn't political.

But, that's the blue pill for you.

STG

+1

The ONLY reason this is happening is because of politics and legislation. It makes the subject fair game.

There is no disputing, even from the mouths of the car executives why these changes are being made. That is FACTUAL and not controversial.

Another FACT, they are NOT market driven, but politically IMPOSED.

Sugar coat it as more horsepower, and the clueless get instant erections. Makes for great bragging rights in the office.

STG

I'm waiting for the sticker shock comments when the turbos arrive. The ones who are jumping for joy now will be crying about having to shell out more of their money to fund the farce.

Porsche will gladly pass along the costs. That's one FACT that can't be disputed.

Petevb

I come here to talk about cars. Pushing a controversial agenda is a guaranteed way to derail that discussion, which is why it's clearly discouraged:

"must not contain political statements, controversial messages, slurs or any other provocative statements."

There is a place for this topic, and as far as I'm concerned it's not here. As an engineer and automotive journalist I like to think I could contribute to a constructive conversation, but I'm not going to contribute to a tangent that annoys many who read it and belongs elsewhere.

I'll leave you guys to your echo chamber.

STG

This makes great reading from Ferrari Engineers and a Road & Track journalist.

I'd rate it a "great car" article.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...turbocharging/

todd92

MarcusG

Thanks for that.

A nice quick read.

I don't want to contribute politically to the thread but how can one that calls themselves an enthusiast like most of us do not be pi**ed off about manufacturers we love being told how to do what they have been doing best for so many years. European Automotive Manufacturer anarchy I say!

If there is a kernel of truth to that article it's just all the beginning of a great nightmare.