Retrofit SPASM to PASM?
08-26-2014, 05:02 PM
#16
my $0.02 I think this guy is confusing PDCC with SPASM, admittedly I have not seen the underside of a 991, but I can tell you I have "NEVER" seen a swaybar droplink with any lines attached to them, that only makes sense for PDCC, since on a "normal" swaybar/droplink arrangement the swaybar and droplink "go nowhere together" (that is the droplink connects the free "arm" of the bar to the chassis thus creating a lever, its a purely mechanical arrangement) so there is nothing at the other end of the swaybar that would need any fluids etc ...
its also worth noting that it was possible to order SPASM and SPASM+PDCC variants, I think the dealer/parts guy is confusing these...
bottom line, you need someone who knows what Ixxx variant code in the parts catalog maps to SPASM to figure out what you need to do the retrofit.
its also worth noting that it was possible to order SPASM and SPASM+PDCC variants, I think the dealer/parts guy is confusing these...
bottom line, you need someone who knows what Ixxx variant code in the parts catalog maps to SPASM to figure out what you need to do the retrofit.
08-26-2014, 05:04 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Something not quite right there. The only links with lines and fluid are PDCC. Cars without PDCC use simple drop links. They may well be different as between PASM and Sport, but not as the dealer says. Study this article, especially the photo's, to see what I mean. http://www.elephantracing.com/tool-b...n-overview.htm
I think the only way to make progress is either to find another dealer with a smarter parts guy, or find someone with a SPAM car, get a part # from their suspension (spring, shock etc) look it up in the pages I sent, find the Ixxx code for that part then look at all the others with a similar variant #
08-26-2014, 05:18 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
I missed a couple of pages:
08-26-2014, 05:25 PM
#19
Yeah I don't think this guy knows what the hell he is talking about.
He also suggested:
"Our shop foreman suggested visiting essexparts.com and they offer upgrading sway bars and such, which will work with your vehicle and the sway bar links you have."
Not sure why I would feel confident in the install at this dealer if I was to try this?
He also suggested:
"Our shop foreman suggested visiting essexparts.com and they offer upgrading sway bars and such, which will work with your vehicle and the sway bar links you have."
Not sure why I would feel confident in the install at this dealer if I was to try this?
08-26-2014, 05:39 PM
#20
Something here I'm not quite getting. The differences between PASM and Sport are stiffer springs and bars, front spoiler and rear spoiler angle, and software. The software has to be different just to control the rear spoiler angle, even if nothing else. Which knowing Porsche I find hard to believe there is nothing else. Different shock control mapping, almost certainly.
But here's the thing- out of all that, you're okay leaving out all the aero stuff. (That's big, by the way, huge- even if you never go much over the limit aerodynamics are significant to handling even at speeds as low as 70 mph.) You're okay leaving the software alone. The main thing seems to be getting PASM Sport ride height.
So why not just change the springs, and call it good? Springs are cheap and easy, and will deliver your desired ride height. Stiffer springs will reduce body roll too, by the way. Realize that without the aero stuff you're never going to get more than maybe 80% of SPASM performance. (I feel I'm being generous here. Did I mention aero is a big deal?) In terms of what you're talking, springs will get you maybe 60-70%, bars another 5%, … and that's it.
Whatever you finally decide, I think one thing we all learned, the PASM Sport option is a stone bargain!
But here's the thing- out of all that, you're okay leaving out all the aero stuff. (That's big, by the way, huge- even if you never go much over the limit aerodynamics are significant to handling even at speeds as low as 70 mph.) You're okay leaving the software alone. The main thing seems to be getting PASM Sport ride height.
So why not just change the springs, and call it good? Springs are cheap and easy, and will deliver your desired ride height. Stiffer springs will reduce body roll too, by the way. Realize that without the aero stuff you're never going to get more than maybe 80% of SPASM performance. (I feel I'm being generous here. Did I mention aero is a big deal?) In terms of what you're talking, springs will get you maybe 60-70%, bars another 5%, … and that's it.
Whatever you finally decide, I think one thing we all learned, the PASM Sport option is a stone bargain!
08-26-2014, 05:52 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Something here I'm not quite getting. The differences between PASM and Sport are stiffer springs and bars, front spoiler and rear spoiler angle, and software. The software has to be different just to control the rear spoiler angle, even if nothing else. Which knowing Porsche I find hard to believe there is nothing else. Different shock control mapping, almost certainly.
But here's the thing- out of all that, you're okay leaving out all the aero stuff. (That's big, by the way, huge- even if you never go much over the limit aerodynamics are significant to handling even at speeds as low as 70 mph.) You're okay leaving the software alone. The main thing seems to be getting PASM Sport ride height.
So why not just change the springs, and call it good? Springs are cheap and easy, and will deliver your desired ride height. Stiffer springs will reduce body roll too, by the way. Realize that without the aero stuff you're never going to get more than maybe 80% of SPASM performance. (I feel I'm being generous here. Did I mention aero is a big deal?) In terms of what you're talking, springs will get you maybe 60-70%, bars another 5%, … and that's it.
Whatever you finally decide, I think one thing we all learned, the PASM Sport option is a stone bargain!
So why not just change the springs, and call it good? Springs are cheap and easy, and will deliver your desired ride height. Stiffer springs will reduce body roll too, by the way. Realize that without the aero stuff you're never going to get more than maybe 80% of SPASM performance. (I feel I'm being generous here. Did I mention aero is a big deal?) In terms of what you're talking, springs will get you maybe 60-70%, bars another 5%, … and that's it.
Whatever you finally decide, I think one thing we all learned, the PASM Sport option is a stone bargain!
controller inputs wont match the spring rates ... not major but...
08-26-2014, 05:54 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Yeah I don't think this guy knows what the hell he is talking about.
He also suggested:
"Our shop foreman suggested visiting essexparts.com and they offer upgrading sway bars and such, which will work with your vehicle and the sway bar links you have."
Not sure why I would feel confident in the install at this dealer if I was to try this?
He also suggested:
"Our shop foreman suggested visiting essexparts.com and they offer upgrading sway bars and such, which will work with your vehicle and the sway bar links you have."
Not sure why I would feel confident in the install at this dealer if I was to try this?
If all you want to do is lower it, talk to GMG racing ... they can help you with aftermarket solutions.
08-26-2014, 06:25 PM
#23
08-26-2014, 06:43 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
prost!
08-28-2014, 02:12 PM
#25
Something here I'm not quite getting. The differences between PASM and Sport are stiffer springs and bars, front spoiler and rear spoiler angle, and software. The software has to be different just to control the rear spoiler angle, even if nothing else. Which knowing Porsche I find hard to believe there is nothing else. Different shock control mapping, almost certainly.
But here's the thing- out of all that, you're okay leaving out all the aero stuff. (That's big, by the way, huge- even if you never go much over the limit aerodynamics are significant to handling even at speeds as low as 70 mph.) You're okay leaving the software alone. The main thing seems to be getting PASM Sport ride height.
So why not just change the springs, and call it good? Springs are cheap and easy, and will deliver your desired ride height. Stiffer springs will reduce body roll too, by the way. Realize that without the aero stuff you're never going to get more than maybe 80% of SPASM performance. (I feel I'm being generous here. Did I mention aero is a big deal?) In terms of what you're talking, springs will get you maybe 60-70%, bars another 5%, … and that's it.
Whatever you finally decide, I think one thing we all learned, the PASM Sport option is a stone bargain!
But here's the thing- out of all that, you're okay leaving out all the aero stuff. (That's big, by the way, huge- even if you never go much over the limit aerodynamics are significant to handling even at speeds as low as 70 mph.) You're okay leaving the software alone. The main thing seems to be getting PASM Sport ride height.
So why not just change the springs, and call it good? Springs are cheap and easy, and will deliver your desired ride height. Stiffer springs will reduce body roll too, by the way. Realize that without the aero stuff you're never going to get more than maybe 80% of SPASM performance. (I feel I'm being generous here. Did I mention aero is a big deal?) In terms of what you're talking, springs will get you maybe 60-70%, bars another 5%, … and that's it.
Whatever you finally decide, I think one thing we all learned, the PASM Sport option is a stone bargain!
Without the rear spoiler deployed and with the hardware changes (so as long as the dampers are the same and not controlled differently via software), you would probably get all of the performance benefit at sane speeds.
You are correct though, adding options later isn't a good way to go about it. Best to click the option box if you ever are uncertain.
08-28-2014, 05:48 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
I have the front lip spoiler and the rear is controlled by software. You can't just throw out #s without any proof as to how much each piece would contribute.
Without the rear spoiler deployed and with the hardware changes (so as long as the dampers are the same and not controlled differently via software), you would probably get all of the performance benefit at sane speeds.
You are correct though, adding options later isn't a good way to go about it. Best to click the option box if you ever are uncertain.
Without the rear spoiler deployed and with the hardware changes (so as long as the dampers are the same and not controlled differently via software), you would probably get all of the performance benefit at sane speeds.
You are correct though, adding options later isn't a good way to go about it. Best to click the option box if you ever are uncertain.
08-28-2014, 10:29 PM
#27
But let's say you could care less about my personal driving experiences. That still leaves Porsche research I have seen where they recorded steering inputs while cars with and without spoilers were put into slides at 60-70 mph. Their test drivers were able to avoid a spin-out, but their steering inputs without spoilers were 50% or more greater. In other words the cars were sliding a lot more, handling a lot worse, barely controllable.
I know this is a hard thing to grasp, especially for someone who has probably never driven a car on the track, let alone enough different cars to have certain facts driven into them hard and deep. Put stiffer springs on a car, anyone can see the difference. Car sits lower. If that's all you want then fine, go for it. Enjoy yourself. But you didn't say just "look" you said "look/feel" and trust me, you are never going to get the "feel" without the full SPASM aero setup.
08-28-2014, 11:53 PM
#28
Of course I can! Its called experience, having driven otherwise identical cars, that is to say cars that were the same except for different aero bits, or different springs and shocks. Like when I said above that the effects of things like spoilers are significant at speeds as low as 70 mph, that's from having driven 70 mph sections of track with cars with/without spoilers. Of course the benefit is much greater at higher speeds, but my point was these things matter even at street legal speeds.
But let's say you could care less about my personal driving experiences. That still leaves Porsche research I have seen where they recorded steering inputs while cars with and without spoilers were put into slides at 60-70 mph. Their test drivers were able to avoid a spin-out, but their steering inputs without spoilers were 50% or more greater. In other words the cars were sliding a lot more, handling a lot worse, barely controllable.
I know this is a hard thing to grasp, especially for someone who has probably never driven a car on the track, let alone enough different cars to have certain facts driven into them hard and deep. Put stiffer springs on a car, anyone can see the difference. Car sits lower. If that's all you want then fine, go for it. Enjoy yourself. But you didn't say just "look" you said "look/feel" and trust me, you are never going to get the "feel" without the full SPASM aero setup.
But let's say you could care less about my personal driving experiences. That still leaves Porsche research I have seen where they recorded steering inputs while cars with and without spoilers were put into slides at 60-70 mph. Their test drivers were able to avoid a spin-out, but their steering inputs without spoilers were 50% or more greater. In other words the cars were sliding a lot more, handling a lot worse, barely controllable.
I know this is a hard thing to grasp, especially for someone who has probably never driven a car on the track, let alone enough different cars to have certain facts driven into them hard and deep. Put stiffer springs on a car, anyone can see the difference. Car sits lower. If that's all you want then fine, go for it. Enjoy yourself. But you didn't say just "look" you said "look/feel" and trust me, you are never going to get the "feel" without the full SPASM aero setup.
08-29-2014, 12:25 AM
#29
If you have truly driven PASM and SPASM equipped cars with equal tires and tread wear over the same surface back to back and noticed Aero differences with the different angle of the rear spoiler and then in the end managed to put % number on that difference - then you are truly blessed.
08-29-2014, 03:22 AM
#30
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