PMAA

Anyone have experience with carbon fiber brake durability? I’ve read that replacing standard brakes is about $500/wheel (with new rotor) and carbon fiber about $5K/wheel (with new rotor) …anyone know if those costs are correct? Can I expect the durability of carbon fiber brakes to be 10X longer than standard brakes under the same conditions?....Thanks all !!

LexVan

So you mean PCCB? Porsche ceramic composite brakes.

Unless you plan to track it, I'd pass on this $$$$$ option. Unless you love yellow calipers and hate brake dust.

ArashApollo

I would say if you plan on keeping your car forever, and wont be tracking, then get them. I believe without track use, they should last around 200K+ miles, with little to no brake dust. Tracking would cost an arm and a leg with PCCBs.

PMAA

Yes I meant the ceramic brakes...the PCCB option. I do plan on keeping the car "forever" and glad to hear you can get as much as 200K from the PCCB brakes for normal (non-track) driving...Thanks!

mgent

I believe they make steel replacement rotors to fit with PCCBs as well, that are closer to $500/wheel

parkerfe

Where do you get your 200k number? I have not seen any empirical evidence out there that ceramic brakes will last 200k miles.

chuck911

Search around RL, there's tons of threads on PCCB vs big reds. Probably the most important thing to keep in mind is the enormous range of use and wear different drivers are able to impose on the braking system. Comments from one who does dozens of track days a year are a good deal different than one who races, or one who does just a few track days, or none. Heat loads the racers brakes must handle are much greater than even a highly skilled DE driver will impose, which in turn will greatly exceed what a lesser skilled track driver will cause. On this scale the heat and wear generated by the typical guy who thinks he's driving real fast through the canyons barely registers. When people say PCCB brakes are life of the car brakes this is the guy they're talking about. For the typical guy who drives his car on the street, does maybe a dozen or twenty track days on street tires spread over the years, all indications are he can expect to replace only the pads and fluid. Over the life of the car.

Again, there's tons of threads on this. Opinions abound. But filter out for the above factors, that is pretty much the gist of it. The main benefit of PCCB is improved ride and handling resulting from significantly reduced unsprung weight. The brakes do feel different, but there's no improvement in braking distance or fade resistance. There is a big reduction in brake dust. They are VERY expensive to replace, and EASILY damaged by say hitting when mounting a wheel. Not nearly as robust as iron. On the other hand, they don't rust every time you wash the car. Subjected to racing or hard frequent track days they definitely will need to be replaced, and at a cost that makes even most hard core track guys change to big reds. This seems to be what's behind a lot of the negative comments out there.

So its a funny thing. Impressively high tech brakes developed for win at all costs professional racing find their best use on Porsches that will see only occasional track use by owners who are concerned as much (maybe more?) with comfort and looks. And that's a Good Thing, too!

chuck911

Search around RL, there's tons of threads on PCCB vs big reds. Probably the most important thing to keep in mind is the enormous range of use and wear different drivers are able to impose on the braking system. Comments from one who does dozens of track days a year are a good deal different than one who races, or one who does just a few track days, or none. Heat loads the racers brakes must handle are much greater than even a highly skilled DE driver will impose, which in turn will greatly exceed what a lesser skilled track driver will cause. On this scale the heat and wear generated by the typical guy who thinks he's driving real fast through the canyons barely registers. When people say PCCB brakes are life of the car brakes this is the guy they're talking about. For the typical guy who drives his car on the street, does maybe a dozen or twenty track days on street tires spread over the years, all indications are he can expect to replace only the pads and fluid. Over the life of the car.

Again, there's tons of threads on this. Opinions abound. But filter out for the above factors, that is pretty much the gist of it. The main benefit of PCCB is improved ride and handling resulting from significantly reduced unsprung weight. The brakes do feel different, but there's no improvement in braking distance or fade resistance. There is a big reduction in brake dust. They are VERY expensive to replace, and EASILY damaged by say hitting when mounting a wheel. Not nearly as robust as iron. On the other hand, they don't rust every time you wash the car. Subjected to racing or hard frequent track days they definitely will need to be replaced, and at a cost that makes even most hard core track guys change to big reds. This seems to be what's behind a lot of the negative comments out there.

So its a funny thing. Impressively high tech brakes developed for win at all costs professional racing find their best use on Porsches that will see only occasional track use by owners who are concerned as much (maybe more?) with comfort and looks. And that's a Good Thing, too!

John 996 TT Cab

It appears even Porsche is worried about track use of PCCB brakes with their comment in the brochure and the manual that the rotors should be checked for cracks after every track day. No such warning on the Big red setup. Also, to note that the 996 GT2 competition brake setup is the yellow calipers but steel rotors. One of our PCA members had a PCCB rotor (on a Carrera GT yet) brake while trying to stop/slow at a track event. He then had Brembo make steel rotors for the GT.

Hammer911

at one point my dealer had mentioned that it was $13k per axle to replace the whole setup including rotors on 997

sergini

The problem of PCCB is the track use .
I had them in a 997.1 S and I had a lot of problems with warranty , if you use them on racetrack the warranty is over .
The problem isn't the durability but how them will used .
They need, after 1/2 hour of track day stint a good and patience cooling procedure , if not ( red flag for example) the pads (hot) may crumble the external ceramic and you have to change the disc beacuse the interior il like "butter"....
I had to change all my PCCB with steel rotors after 2 trackdays on the Nurburgring Nordscheife : at the end of every lap there was a long line ....and PCCB soffered a lot .

Porsche said I did a wrong cooling and that warranty is over for racing use

if you are sure to use the car only in street use , you can buy it , but if you want to do some track days of PC meetings , better use that money in other parts

rijowysock

i've had steel on 997.1, 997.2, 991... and then had PCCB on 997TT...

i would never personally pay for the option, they look cool.. stopping for DD habits was the same, they were noisy at times... and thank god i didn't have to pay to have them replaced (replaced under warranty and was close to 25k)...

LonnieR

I had a GT3 with steel brakes and one with PCCB. I was one of the fortunate ones that had PCCB without any problems with noise. I honestly felt like the steel brakes stopped the car better. I tracked both lightly but I would not recommend the PCCB for the track due to high cost replacement. It's interesting how there are many threads about switching out the PCCB with steel for the track. If you love yellow calipers, have the steel brakes painted but the PCCB's are definitely not worth the $8K-9K.

My son had a GT3 with PCCB and had so much trouble with them (noise and grinding) that Porsche replaced the pads and rotors under warranty and he still had a noise issue.

991rookie

How much does cost replacing new PCCB's when they're consumed?

LexVan

Pads or rotors?

Pads are about 1.5 x the cost of standard pads. Rotors cost many $1,000's.