$20K for the full set 4 wheels pads and rotors

 

I just ordered a Cayenne GTS and when I test drove 2 models back to back, 1 with PCCBs and 1 without, the braking performance was very noticeable, with the PCCBs being much stronger.

The $9000 option isn't too bad when you look at alternatives such as the same size upgrade in a Bembo iron kit being about the same money, but the difference comes when you have to service the rotors. On a Cayenne the PCCB rotors are $3500 each. $550 for the big iron rotors. My dealer told me Panamera PCCB rotors are almost twice that much. (his $#s, he may have been wrong)

From talking to Stoptech and the service dept at my Porsche dealer, ceramic carbon brake rotors are subject to all kinds of failure issues on track and street and most guys who track their cars switch their PCCBs to iron for track use. Unfortunately on the Cayenne the brake size is so odd and the production numbers so low no one offers iron rotors for those calipers. The weight savings is huge and unsprung weight is unsprung weight even on a big vehicle, but going to aluminum hats on the big Brembos that I elected for will save some weight too over stock all iron. My opinion is that the majority of the superior braking I felt with the PCCBs was due to the size difference which is about 2" larger on the front.

As far as lasting 200K mi? Well maybe, if you are really careful and drive very slow and replace your pads at 50% wear like Porsche recommends ($400). Probably more real world would be about 100K life if you are reasonably careful.

If you are going to trade the car off in a few years it might be worth is. Otherwise I don't think so; even if it does virtually eliminate brake dust.

Oh, BTW, The parts guy told me that if you want to buy the Porsche PCCBs after the fact for a Cayenne the price is $21k plus installation. That makes the $8840 up-charge for the option seem pretty reasonable.

 

Are the front Big Reds on the C2S/C4S the same size as the yellow front calipers with the PCCB's? I understand that both are 6 piston.

 

I"m actually pissed at Porsche about this whole issue.

My opinion is that the track is exactly the place you would want PCCBs over anywhere else because of the unsprung weight savings and the reported better pedal feel and the lack of brake fade and the bigger size resulting in shorter stopping distances.

All of those things are pretty much immaterial on the street in a small car. Stock size red brakes will suffice and surpass almost all street needs. For street you are left with bling, to the few who even know what ceramic brakes are. -Girls sure aren't going to like you better and most won't have a clue - Lack of brake dust and maybe saving 1 rotor change over iron if you baby them. Once in 100K vs 50K for iron. But the CC rotors will cost you 6 times the price of a set of big iron rotors to replace.

I'd say the main thing to address is why can't they be made better? And cheaper. I mean come on, there is no way it costs Porsche $3500 to $4000 to manufacture 1 rotor. If we elect to buy the brakes Porsche should offer service and replacement for a reasonable price and not profit so much on the deal.

If the engineering has not been worked out they should not even offer them for sale. It seems counter to everything that Porsche purports to stand for.

I'm thinking of ordering a GT3 which will mostly be a track car with some street use and I would love to have big lightweight CC brakes, but I really can't justify ordering the option because they don't work except in the short term, or for a poser street application they were not intended for from the beginning.

Are all ceramic composite brake rotors this bad?

 

Several misconceptions here. Yes PCCB brakes are a big benefit on the track, but not because of stopping distance (which is equal) or fade (equal, maybe slightly better) but because of the greatly reduced mass. In racing weight, especially unsprung weight, is everything. Of course, so is winning. Which is a completely different story from "at the track" which tends to mean guys who like to drive fast which is a whole different thing from competition.

Yes stock big reds are phenomenally capable in street use. But since, again, the real benefit of PCCB is not braking distance but unsprung weight then the advantages are still there only now the value is in whatever value the owner places on his perception of improved ride, handling and appearance. Some just won't be able to notice the improved ride, hardly any will experience any difference in handling, but everyone can see they look different. The fact that so few are perceptive enough to really feel the improvement is a poor reason to dismiss the whole thing as "bling".

The technology involved in making these things is amazing, and very well worked out. What it costs to make is thorny, but no way around it, its going to be multiples of whatever it costs to make an iron disc. The option cost is a bargain- just don't damage them as replacement is expensive!

 

Although not a very recent article, it's pretty interesting... (Conclusion is the same as in the video posted above though)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/au...AKES.html?_r=0

Suzy991

 

Chuck. The "misconceptions" appear to come from your inaccurate reading of my post; but I'm not going to get into it.

Personally I drive just as fast "at the track" as I do in a race. You don't?

Thanks for the vid.

 

that certainly is a complex manu process. Wonder how it compares to iron?

 

I have PCCBs on both a 997 GT3 and my Cayenne. Put 65K miles on 2010 GT3 so far and no wear, put 20K miles on the 2012 CTT and yesterday my service tech indicated wear on the front brakes (he rated them 7 out of 8 on his chart) which surprised me - I cannot see any wear visually like you do on iron rotors. Didn't have the opportunity to speak directly with the tech and the service person was clueless. I always been told to expect 200K minimum for spirited but not track level driving. This thread has numbers between 100 and 200K, that a large range and undoubtedly has to do with how you drive the car.

Love the brakes and don't mind paying for them "once," but I would not like to pay for replacements - I was also quoted $20K to replace some cast iron brakes with PCCBs on an 997 TT about three years ago, which is consistent with the numbers in this thread.

 

I just got PCCB for my 911/50. I got them for several reasons....and Yes the cost was high. I was told the PCCB in my 2014 was third generation and better. I was told first generation was the worst but second generation much better. I don't track my car and put on 4000km/year so I expect them to last forever. I don't want break dust and the theoretical advantage of lower unsprung weight was nice. No rust is another advantage as well as the added bling. My dealer told me that PCCB stop better in the wet as well but I can not confirm this yet. Only time will tell but I THINK I made the right decision. I just makes my car a little different than others. I suspect the number of 911/50's with PCCB in North America will be relatively small. Important to me but certainly not everyone.

 

Making an iron rotor consists of casting the rotor and machining. That's it; no heat treating required. Production time is measured in minutes.

 

I went out this AM and inspected the ceramic rotors on my CTT, there is no ridge line from the working surface of the rotor to the original machined surface. That's good, the wear the service tech was referring to must have been in the pads which are not so easy for me to check.

You'll love these brakes, even if part of the appeal is psychological - I have over 85K miles between my GT3 and this Cayenne, no regrets. But if I thought I would have to replace the rotors, I might have to reconsider due to replacement cost.

 

In Canada the rotors are about $3,100 each plus pads the last time I checked.

 

Wouldn't be a bad price for a set of four!

 

I recall that if you get a stone caught between the rotor and pad it can crack or otherwise ruin the the PCCB brakes. It seemed like a deal buster besides the price for me.