991 Carrera engine fire
04-04-2013, 12:27 AM
#46
Interesting analysis by Carrera GT. Thanks for the insight. I've worked as a marine engineer and certainly understand the issues with tech concentration and follow-up. That said, I have no issues with those guys.
PCNA has been in contact with my insurance adjuster and the dealership and evidently they will inspect the car on the 9th. Hardly breaking their necks to do their due diligence. Am i paranoid or are we starting to see some waffling? I remain optimistic, however.
PCNA has been in contact with my insurance adjuster and the dealership and evidently they will inspect the car on the 9th. Hardly breaking their necks to do their due diligence. Am i paranoid or are we starting to see some waffling? I remain optimistic, however.
As for waffling, I'm afraid that's standard operating procedure, but rest assured, at least in my experience with Porsche in California, as recently as a couple of years ago, when there was a fault with a GT3 that had been heavily tracked (and Porsche expressed their awareness of my cars all finding their way to Porsche Club track events) they waffled and hemmed and hawed for weeks of delays until finally taking 100% responsibility at no cost to me. I'm worried that Porsche has started to even comment on track driving, but that's a broad topic. I would have liked a quicker conclusion, but I'm never satisfied! : )
04-04-2013, 08:31 PM
#48
Drifting
04-04-2013, 09:11 PM
#49
There's an old saying in the service industry that goes something like "People are fallible, mistakes can be made. It's a matter of how we deal with our mistakes." So long as Porsche deals with this mistake -- and I think that means a near financially zero cost to you at your discretion to replace the car or have it repaired -- then all's well that ends well.
04-04-2013, 09:18 PM
#50
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I was alone in the car, luckily. In the situation, instinct took over and I simply tried to put the fire out. My mind was racing however, and I was recalling techniques for different fire classes. Frankly, if it had continued to gain heat I would have considered it to be class B and stepped back. About 5 minutes after I had it controlled the fire dept showed up. 10-12 minutes with a class B and the beautiful little car may have been a charred shell with possible damage to surrounding structures. I'll put up a couple of photos if I can get them off my phone.
04-05-2013, 12:58 AM
#54
Gruesome pics. I think you're right to have expected it could have quickly involved the whole car. Your lucky day. To be alone, to have your wits about you. Could have been a very different story.
Anyway, now it's just logistics and lemonade.
I've had some experience with repairs to modern 911's, there's no prospect of that car being repaired. Just a quick thumbnail of the major pieces:
* There's $10-30K damage before you drop the engine and discover suspension or transmission issues. Look at any marketing diagram "x-ray" of the 991 and more than 50% of the expense of the car is at the rear axle.
* Just looking at panels and paint, insulation, ducts, anything vulnerable to water damage or chemical retardants.
* The top comes as a complete assembly, then there's motors and trim pieces in the rear.
* Another $2-10K in wiring and electrical ancillaries.
* Another $2-10K in rear suspension bushings, tires, wheels, brake components.
* Anything unseen, anything "once we get inside"
* Exposure to engine internals if any of that water breached the intake and found its way to heads, valve seals, injectors, pistons, rings, cylinder bores ... any and all of which will sit exposed to the weather for weeks of corrosion, so will the cabin and electronics, seat leather, etc.
* Why did the engine lose power? Did it ingest a piece of plastic or metal? Maybe just a wire burned through the insulation and shorted to ground. Wishful thinking. Maybe the engine ingested a few screws.
* Then there's logsitics. I think the term is "vehicle off road" time. The lease payment recovery or equivalent loss of use compensation.
* The loss of resale value and the overall customer good will experience.
* The replacement vehicle has factors of delay, sales tax, loss of capital or loss of equity on a lease, fees to reinstate a new lease. The laundry list.
I wouldn't point the finger at any party, certainly not the dealer team. I'd suggest you leave it to Porsche to conclude upon cause and fault as their affair. At this point, you've done your bit. You didn't let it burn to the ground, so they have their forensic bread crumbs to figure out what they need to do to avoid this happening again.
I'd work from the perspective of "this is day one" in the process of a new order replacement with the factory offering their full support to fast tracking a new replacement vehicle to your door.
Maybe a wide body this time? Bit of a gratuitous discount? Free factory delivery and make a holiday of it? Upgrade to the Power Kit option? : )
Your lucky day. If this happened to me, I could have been at 130 mph wondering why the steering and brakes aren't there as I try to make the apex or just stay on track and not end up as part of the scenery.
Think lemonade!
Anyway, now it's just logistics and lemonade.
I've had some experience with repairs to modern 911's, there's no prospect of that car being repaired. Just a quick thumbnail of the major pieces:
* There's $10-30K damage before you drop the engine and discover suspension or transmission issues. Look at any marketing diagram "x-ray" of the 991 and more than 50% of the expense of the car is at the rear axle.
* Just looking at panels and paint, insulation, ducts, anything vulnerable to water damage or chemical retardants.
* The top comes as a complete assembly, then there's motors and trim pieces in the rear.
* Another $2-10K in wiring and electrical ancillaries.
* Another $2-10K in rear suspension bushings, tires, wheels, brake components.
* Anything unseen, anything "once we get inside"
* Exposure to engine internals if any of that water breached the intake and found its way to heads, valve seals, injectors, pistons, rings, cylinder bores ... any and all of which will sit exposed to the weather for weeks of corrosion, so will the cabin and electronics, seat leather, etc.
* Why did the engine lose power? Did it ingest a piece of plastic or metal? Maybe just a wire burned through the insulation and shorted to ground. Wishful thinking. Maybe the engine ingested a few screws.
* Then there's logsitics. I think the term is "vehicle off road" time. The lease payment recovery or equivalent loss of use compensation.
* The loss of resale value and the overall customer good will experience.
* The replacement vehicle has factors of delay, sales tax, loss of capital or loss of equity on a lease, fees to reinstate a new lease. The laundry list.
I wouldn't point the finger at any party, certainly not the dealer team. I'd suggest you leave it to Porsche to conclude upon cause and fault as their affair. At this point, you've done your bit. You didn't let it burn to the ground, so they have their forensic bread crumbs to figure out what they need to do to avoid this happening again.
I'd work from the perspective of "this is day one" in the process of a new order replacement with the factory offering their full support to fast tracking a new replacement vehicle to your door.
Maybe a wide body this time? Bit of a gratuitous discount? Free factory delivery and make a holiday of it? Upgrade to the Power Kit option? : )
Your lucky day. If this happened to me, I could have been at 130 mph wondering why the steering and brakes aren't there as I try to make the apex or just stay on track and not end up as part of the scenery.
Think lemonade!
04-05-2013, 01:06 AM
#55
Instructor
Good writeup. That's why I suggested above that he might start thinking about what he's going to order.
It comes down to this: The car caught fire and it wasn't supposed to.
If it was the owner's negligence (like a cleaning rage left on top of the engine), his insurance will cover, minus deductible and minus depreciation.
If it was a negligent oil change/filter installation, dealer's insurance will pay, subject to depreciation.
If it was a defect (either manufacturing or engineering) Porsche will replace: either on their own volition or in accordance with Washington State Lemon Laws once the out-of-service days threshold is exceeded.
It comes down to this: The car caught fire and it wasn't supposed to.
If it was the owner's negligence (like a cleaning rage left on top of the engine), his insurance will cover, minus deductible and minus depreciation.
If it was a negligent oil change/filter installation, dealer's insurance will pay, subject to depreciation.
If it was a defect (either manufacturing or engineering) Porsche will replace: either on their own volition or in accordance with Washington State Lemon Laws once the out-of-service days threshold is exceeded.
04-05-2013, 01:23 AM
#56
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Yeah, it could well have been worse. I'm trying to remain neutral in my expectations. It's difficult though as I have the intact car with a backdrop of the Pacific as my screen saver. I get a twinge every time I unsleep the monitor. The waiting is tough.
Thanks for the upbeat thoughts!
Thanks for the upbeat thoughts!
04-05-2013, 02:19 AM
#57
Rennlist Member
This is ridiculous! I'm so sorry to see this. Hope you get a brand new car very soon!
04-05-2013, 04:45 AM
#59
Three Wheelin'
I feel for you ! But surely, NEW CAR !
04-05-2013, 11:06 AM
#60
Gruesome pics. I think you're right to have expected it could have quickly involved the whole car. Your lucky day. To be alone, to have your wits about you. Could have been a very different story.
Anyway, now it's just logistics and lemonade.
I've had some experience with repairs to modern 911's, there's no prospect of that car being repaired. Just a quick thumbnail of the major pieces:
* There's $10-30K damage before you drop the engine and discover suspension or transmission issues. Look at any marketing diagram "x-ray" of the 991 and more than 50% of the expense of the car is at the rear axle.
* Just looking at panels and paint, insulation, ducts, anything vulnerable to water damage or chemical retardants.
* The top comes as a complete assembly, then there's motors and trim pieces in the rear.
* Another $2-10K in wiring and electrical ancillaries.
* Another $2-10K in rear suspension bushings, tires, wheels, brake components.
* Anything unseen, anything "once we get inside"
* Exposure to engine internals if any of that water breached the intake and found its way to heads, valve seals, injectors, pistons, rings, cylinder bores ... any and all of which will sit exposed to the weather for weeks of corrosion, so will the cabin and electronics, seat leather, etc.
* Why did the engine lose power? Did it ingest a piece of plastic or metal? Maybe just a wire burned through the insulation and shorted to ground. Wishful thinking. Maybe the engine ingested a few screws.
* Then there's logsitics. I think the term is "vehicle off road" time. The lease payment recovery or equivalent loss of use compensation.
* The loss of resale value and the overall customer good will experience.
* The replacement vehicle has factors of delay, sales tax, loss of capital or loss of equity on a lease, fees to reinstate a new lease. The laundry list.
I wouldn't point the finger at any party, certainly not the dealer team. I'd suggest you leave it to Porsche to conclude upon cause and fault as their affair. At this point, you've done your bit. You didn't let it burn to the ground, so they have their forensic bread crumbs to figure out what they need to do to avoid this happening again.
I'd work from the perspective of "this is day one" in the process of a new order replacement with the factory offering their full support to fast tracking a new replacement vehicle to your door.
Maybe a wide body this time? Bit of a gratuitous discount? Free factory delivery and make a holiday of it? Upgrade to the Power Kit option? : )
Your lucky day. If this happened to me, I could have been at 130 mph wondering why the steering and brakes aren't there as I try to make the apex or just stay on track and not end up as part of the scenery.
Think lemonade!
Anyway, now it's just logistics and lemonade.
I've had some experience with repairs to modern 911's, there's no prospect of that car being repaired. Just a quick thumbnail of the major pieces:
* There's $10-30K damage before you drop the engine and discover suspension or transmission issues. Look at any marketing diagram "x-ray" of the 991 and more than 50% of the expense of the car is at the rear axle.
* Just looking at panels and paint, insulation, ducts, anything vulnerable to water damage or chemical retardants.
* The top comes as a complete assembly, then there's motors and trim pieces in the rear.
* Another $2-10K in wiring and electrical ancillaries.
* Another $2-10K in rear suspension bushings, tires, wheels, brake components.
* Anything unseen, anything "once we get inside"
* Exposure to engine internals if any of that water breached the intake and found its way to heads, valve seals, injectors, pistons, rings, cylinder bores ... any and all of which will sit exposed to the weather for weeks of corrosion, so will the cabin and electronics, seat leather, etc.
* Why did the engine lose power? Did it ingest a piece of plastic or metal? Maybe just a wire burned through the insulation and shorted to ground. Wishful thinking. Maybe the engine ingested a few screws.
* Then there's logsitics. I think the term is "vehicle off road" time. The lease payment recovery or equivalent loss of use compensation.
* The loss of resale value and the overall customer good will experience.
* The replacement vehicle has factors of delay, sales tax, loss of capital or loss of equity on a lease, fees to reinstate a new lease. The laundry list.
I wouldn't point the finger at any party, certainly not the dealer team. I'd suggest you leave it to Porsche to conclude upon cause and fault as their affair. At this point, you've done your bit. You didn't let it burn to the ground, so they have their forensic bread crumbs to figure out what they need to do to avoid this happening again.
I'd work from the perspective of "this is day one" in the process of a new order replacement with the factory offering their full support to fast tracking a new replacement vehicle to your door.
Maybe a wide body this time? Bit of a gratuitous discount? Free factory delivery and make a holiday of it? Upgrade to the Power Kit option? : )
Your lucky day. If this happened to me, I could have been at 130 mph wondering why the steering and brakes aren't there as I try to make the apex or just stay on track and not end up as part of the scenery.
Think lemonade!
I wouldn't get too excited about freebies and upgrades... I'd just want a brand new car with the same extras and a fast-tracked build and delivery. (Perhaps a reasonable loan car, even if not a P-car)
Despite the horrific loss, it was indeed your lucky day that you weren't travelling at high speed when a catastrophic failure of some kind occurred!