Manifold

We have a Cayman R, which we tracked extensively this past season. We also have a 997S cab, which is my daily driver, and I was planning to track it next season (as well as the Cayman), but I have reservations about tracking a cab from a safety standpoint (even if the track/club allow it), and I also don't like the idea of having a 911 but not tracking it (my commute is short, so the car is way underutilized for street use).

So I'm thinking about replacing the cab with a 911 coupe, either a 997S, GT3, GT3RS, or GT2, or a 991S. I'd appreciate opinions on which to go with, and I'd especially like to hear from advanced/instructor drivers who have experience in tracking both the 991 and 997.

FWIW, today I test drove the 991S in both PDK and manual versions. I prefer the manual, but I could live with PDK, since it does have its benefits and works well in manual mode with the shifter. I found the 991 to be very impressive - fast, planted, crisp handling - and very different from the 997. Not to stir up the usual controversy, but IMO the 991 isn't really even a 911, instead more something new and apparently designed to compete with Ferraris and other supercars. By comparison, IMO the 997 has much more of the traditional 911 feel, more raw and visceral. Both fantastic cars but, again, very different.

chuckbdc

The 991 takes the best of the 911 architecture to a different level, so more skill may be needed to extract all that it offers (especially with PDK, because it is so good that you will have more time to focus on what gets you around the track fast). In absolute handling it will match your Cayman R, and with more HP and torque will be faster everywhere. But- as good as it is, it is like your Cayman R, a genuine dual purpose track worthy street machine.

Your other choices, GT3RS and GT2, are less compromised street worthy track machines. You are totality right about the 997 platform having more of the old 911 feel and capability. It is way less than the 993 or earlier cars, but there are still enough issues to overcome with acquired skill to provide boatloads of satisfaction when you do. I would guess that until the 991 GT3 shows up, and assuming R rated track tires, they ought to do the job. There is a lot to learn about 911s. I would not consider the GT3 in the mix- if I could opt for the others.

gt2r

OK here's my opinion. For background, I own a Cayman S a GT3-gen 1 and GT3RS. I have driven the Cayman R and 991S on the track as well. All Caymans on the track are almost idiot proof and great to drive. Unless you make a really terrible mistake, those cars are nearly impossible to get into problems with. The problem is that they are way slower than the 991 and any GT cars of recent years. The 991 with PDK might be faster than the GT3 for lap times but they are not as much fun to drive. The GT3 handles better and is stiffer with less body roll. The 991 again is pretty hard to mess up even in corners because of the electronics in the car. They are fun to drive and if you are looking for quicker lap times it may be the car for you. I perfer any GT car simply because they are designed for the track. With faster speeds and rowing through the gears into the corners, things do come up pretty quick with going from 5th gear to 2nd on a long straight. The biggest difference between all of them in my opinion is if you overcook a corner with the Cayman or 991 then get on the gas there are little concepuences to be paid. With the GT cars it is always better to come in a little slower and accelerate out. That way you can eliminate the majority of bad things that can happen with a faster car.
Hope that helps

Manifold

I should note that with a 991, I'd want to minimize the driver aids: no PTV, probably no PDCC (increases understeer?), and possibly no PASM either. PSM would stay on until I'm comfortable with the car, and then turned off.

chuckbdc

Sport PASM is a very sweet setup. Lower and stiffer springs and roll bars. and plenty of cornering feel. Sport Chrono also gives dynamic engine mounts and sharper engine maps both useful.

arena-RTR

I have heard from a lot of people that I have a huge deal of respect for that they think the 991 "isn't as much of a 911", which I assume is due to more neutral handling. As a Cayman driver myself, I have to admit that I really don't think that's a bad thing...

If you're looking to track a 991, I would offer the following suggestions to your build:

- Get the sport chrono package. It's overpriced, but it is the only way to force the car into it's sportiest settings for stability control, PASM, the torque vectoring rear diff.... etc. You will never use the lap timer, unfortunately.

- Get the PASM sport suspension. It's glorious... and gets even better once the car has a few thousand miles on it.

- At this point, I would skip the PDCC (Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control) There are just too many conflicting opinions about it at this point, and for $3000 I don't think it's worth the risk. It may help your laptimes a bit, but who knows if a more aggressive alignment would do the same thing....

- Unfortunately, it appears that you have to get the sunroof, as some people have described some severe wind buffeting running with the windows down at speeds over 100 mph... cracking the sunroof gets rid of this...

- I don't personally like the style of the Sport Techno wheels, but they do give you noticeably more rubber.

- Sport Exhaust sounds like sex.

- Skip the adaptive sport seats... with all those motors, they have to be pretty heavy... You can get the half-power sport seats plus with the manual forward back slider and it still keeps the side bolsters.

chuckbdc

That's a good one. Having campaigned a very well set up old 911 for a long time, I have a different take.

The 991S (right out of the showroom) is more like the 911 one worked towards by using generations of race car tricks (revising suspension pickup points, changing springs and roll bars, widening the track, going to solid engine mounts and adding horsepower and torque). Some claimed it was possible to add a touch of wheelbase to add stability, but the 3.9 in in the 991 is a game changer (PS- same deal with the 981 compared to last gen Caymans).

Manifold

Update on my end. I wound up replacing the 997S cab with a Cayenne GTS. The GTS covers the need for a practical family vehicle, while also delivering performance rivaling a sports car - an incredible engineering achievement.

So as far as a track car, the plan for now is to stick with the Cayman R, while also keeping an eye out for a good value on a 996 GT3 or 997 GT3/RS, or holding out for the 991 GT3.

Regarding the 991, over the past couple of days, I drove a 991 base and S, and a 997S coupe with sport suspension, and I'm really becoming convinced that this new 991 design is the way to go if performance is the goal. The handling is clearly superior to the 997 base and S, even without PASM, PTV, and PDCC. I would still say that the overall feel of the car is so different that it's no longer a 911, but that's not necessarily a bad thing or an insult. For those who want them, older 911s are still available (and I don't rule out getting one for fun), but for performance Porsche has moved forward, and I'm willing to move with them. For that matter, the feel of the Cayenne GTS actually resembles the 991 in some ways, and that's part of why I got it!

GentlemanRacer

really great choice. Looked at a cayman R and 991S along the same lines as you did this year. The 991 is as Chuck suggested, race car out of the factory. Everyone talks about the 911 feel and personality, but that changes with every iteration and every modification and there is a 911 for every personality out there...you just gotta make it your own. If you ever want a podium finish you need top of your class performance and handling, together with skill. Race addicts will throw the piggy bank at a car to get it there and in doing so mod the "original essence" out of it. Ever drive a cup car? Some remark how easy it is to drive..hugs the road etc etc. This 911 is just as capable or more so right out of the box as any other 911, which for racing means you are already halfway there. That being said the cayman R is just pure pleasure. Enjoy.

chuckbdc

Let me amplify my view of Porsche evolution. My prior Porsche was a Boxter S RS-60, which demonstrated how clueless non-Boxter owners could be. I bet the new Cayman S is going to confuse a lot of the 911 types who have not sampled a Cayman R, including more than a few of the 991 variety.