If you had to pick one or the other...PSE or PDCC?
10-11-2012, 12:25 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
I find the musing about the understeer and the PDCC suspect. If for no other reason because of the statement that the understeer is unusual for a 911 which is normally tail happy -- implying that the 991 is the first 911 with understeer.
Yah.
My 997 pushed far, far more than my 991 does.
Yah.
My 997 pushed far, far more than my 991 does.
10-11-2012, 01:16 PM
#34
Race Car
I find the musing about the understeer and the PDCC suspect. If for no other reason because of the statement that the understeer is unusual for a 911 which is normally tail happy -- implying that the 991 is the first 911 with understeer.
Yah.
My 997 pushed far, far more than my 991 does.
Yah.
My 997 pushed far, far more than my 991 does.
Personally I am quite convinced by Dag's description of the effects he and his friend have experienced at the 'Ring at the speeds and conditions that he has demonstrated in his vids here. For me they far outweigh speculation.
10-11-2012, 01:22 PM
#35
Three Wheelin'
I was unclear -- the musings in the video. They casually attribute the understeer to the PDCC, because, they say, this is the first 911 with understeer. I would find it far more interesting and credible if they would substantiate that instead of assuming away. Perhaps test one with and one without.
10-11-2012, 02:26 PM
#36
I would love for them to test one with and without,....I believe it would show how good the actual non-optioned S suspension really is. It would really be the only valid test. I'd love to see SPASM against non-SPASM and then PDCC thrown into the mix.
Porsche has always shied away from showing such comparisons as in my opinion it would only show how close a non-optioned suspension is compared to a fully optioned one. We would be talking a few seconds around a 8 minute track for a $4k price tag? I'll use that money somewhere else.
If you really dig the slightly different feeling of SPASM & PDCC give,...then they are money well spent, but you're simply not going to "run-a-way" from a car that doesn't have them. I think some people think that when they tick off the option boxes for them.
Porsche has always shied away from showing such comparisons as in my opinion it would only show how close a non-optioned suspension is compared to a fully optioned one. We would be talking a few seconds around a 8 minute track for a $4k price tag? I'll use that money somewhere else.
If you really dig the slightly different feeling of SPASM & PDCC give,...then they are money well spent, but you're simply not going to "run-a-way" from a car that doesn't have them. I think some people think that when they tick off the option boxes for them.
10-11-2012, 02:42 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
I would love to see those tests, too. I find it weird that with all the talk, no publication has done them.
In the case of the video, sitting in front of a laptop with readouts to make things look scientific, and then stating we *think* this is what's going on, but we're not testing it, is weird. Of course folks interested in this is a only subset of the peolpe interested in the GT-R/911 comparo, but why a magazine like Excellence has not done a test of the different 991 suspension options is beyond me.
In the case of the video, sitting in front of a laptop with readouts to make things look scientific, and then stating we *think* this is what's going on, but we're not testing it, is weird. Of course folks interested in this is a only subset of the peolpe interested in the GT-R/911 comparo, but why a magazine like Excellence has not done a test of the different 991 suspension options is beyond me.
10-11-2012, 08:08 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
"Excellence" here...
To the OP's original question: PSE
To some of the discussion points: Have tried PDCC in a number of Porsches now, and love it in the Cayenne and Panamera (esp Panamera GTS). Do not like it in the 991. No understeer issues (I too suspect that is driver-induced?), but multiple 991s with PDCC have left me feeling disconnected from the car when pushed about as quick as I'll go on a public road.
I did notice an advantage (slight) in comfort with PDCC, and the cars I've tested (several coupes and one Cab) were all VERY nice up to about four- to five-tenths. Past that, it was hard to put a finger on why I was hauling, but not having much fun. I think it's PDCC, as the standard 991 Carrera coupe and Carrera S coupe w/o PDCC were both brilliant. Brilliant. I do not doubt PDCC's performance advantages, and know it offers a lap-time advantage at the Ring —*though question how much of a margin that will translate into on the rest of the world's (much shorter) race tracks. That said, lap times aren't the end all be all for me — were they, I'd be lusting after ZR1s and Caterhams, not Porsches.
My take on PDCC in the sports cars is: Promising, but not "there" yet. Like very early eGas, PASM, etc.
PSE, on the other hand, if you have the money, is very cool. Especially in the 991, where it is a big step up from the previous 997 systems.
All of the above is merely my take, offered to be helpful. YMMV, people have different opinions and tastes, etc....
P.S. I would love to do a test between the two. Getting the cars together has proven difficult. However, I believe Autocar did and came to the conclusion that PDCC offered little advantage in times (short course, I think...) and they didn't like the "feel" of it. At least, that's what I remember. Also, Dickie Meaden of EVO does not like 991s spec'd with PDCC. Two sources I do like...wish we had more of their type here in the U.S.
Cheers!
pete
To the OP's original question: PSE
To some of the discussion points: Have tried PDCC in a number of Porsches now, and love it in the Cayenne and Panamera (esp Panamera GTS). Do not like it in the 991. No understeer issues (I too suspect that is driver-induced?), but multiple 991s with PDCC have left me feeling disconnected from the car when pushed about as quick as I'll go on a public road.
I did notice an advantage (slight) in comfort with PDCC, and the cars I've tested (several coupes and one Cab) were all VERY nice up to about four- to five-tenths. Past that, it was hard to put a finger on why I was hauling, but not having much fun. I think it's PDCC, as the standard 991 Carrera coupe and Carrera S coupe w/o PDCC were both brilliant. Brilliant. I do not doubt PDCC's performance advantages, and know it offers a lap-time advantage at the Ring —*though question how much of a margin that will translate into on the rest of the world's (much shorter) race tracks. That said, lap times aren't the end all be all for me — were they, I'd be lusting after ZR1s and Caterhams, not Porsches.
My take on PDCC in the sports cars is: Promising, but not "there" yet. Like very early eGas, PASM, etc.
PSE, on the other hand, if you have the money, is very cool. Especially in the 991, where it is a big step up from the previous 997 systems.
All of the above is merely my take, offered to be helpful. YMMV, people have different opinions and tastes, etc....
P.S. I would love to do a test between the two. Getting the cars together has proven difficult. However, I believe Autocar did and came to the conclusion that PDCC offered little advantage in times (short course, I think...) and they didn't like the "feel" of it. At least, that's what I remember. Also, Dickie Meaden of EVO does not like 991s spec'd with PDCC. Two sources I do like...wish we had more of their type here in the U.S.
Cheers!
pete
10-11-2012, 09:10 PM
#39
Race Car
I have neither- but do have Sport PASM- and think that it is about perfect. The sound of the S is pretty good as it comes standard. PSE is a hoot however, especially on overrun in fast corners, where is sounds like you as much like you are leading a race and are about to be overtaken as it does like the engine is burbling!
10-12-2012, 04:33 AM
#40
Instructor
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The PDCC debate will rage on and on a bit like 997 v 991 ! It is very difficult to decide whether to have it or not when optioning one's new car. There is a range of opinion but nothing definitive. It is impossible for most of us to test drive cars with all the different chassis options and in any case you really need to test them on normal roads plus the track. Unless you are a really experienced driver they will all feel brilliant! For most of us I think it will take a long time to really get used to the car to appreciate exactly how each chassis option might be affecting what we perceive as the "feel" of the car.
What can we say about PDCC based on what has been reported - it definitely changes the feel of the car, it probably improves comfort during daily driving, it may reduce tyre wear and improve performance on track. Some may views these attributes negatively or positively. Like most options it boils down to personal taste and going with your gut!
Getting back to the post, I think a difficult choice between the two but probably I would go with PSE. I actually went for both! My build date is October 19th. I look forward to being able to contribute my personal experience of these options on road and on track in due course once I really get used to the car!
What can we say about PDCC based on what has been reported - it definitely changes the feel of the car, it probably improves comfort during daily driving, it may reduce tyre wear and improve performance on track. Some may views these attributes negatively or positively. Like most options it boils down to personal taste and going with your gut!
Getting back to the post, I think a difficult choice between the two but probably I would go with PSE. I actually went for both! My build date is October 19th. I look forward to being able to contribute my personal experience of these options on road and on track in due course once I really get used to the car!
10-12-2012, 04:43 AM
#41
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I completely agree with your assesment having driven both PDCC and non-PDCC "S" versions. I ended up ordering a SPASM, non-PDCC - should be in my Garage in December (phew, that is a 8 month wait from ordering. Never thought I'd like a car so much to wait that long...)
Rainier
Rainier
"Excellence" here...
To the OP's original question: PSE
To some of the discussion points: Have tried PDCC in a number of Porsches now, and love it in the Cayenne and Panamera (esp Panamera GTS). Do not like it in the 991. No understeer issues (I too suspect that is driver-induced?), but multiple 991s with PDCC have left me feeling disconnected from the car when pushed about as quick as I'll go on a public road.
I did notice an advantage (slight) in comfort with PDCC, and the cars I've tested (several coupes and one Cab) were all VERY nice up to about four- to five-tenths. Past that, it was hard to put a finger on why I was hauling, but not having much fun. I think it's PDCC, as the standard 991 Carrera coupe and Carrera S coupe w/o PDCC were both brilliant. Brilliant. I do not doubt PDCC's performance advantages, and know it offers a lap-time advantage at the Ring —*though question how much of a margin that will translate into on the rest of the world's (much shorter) race tracks. That said, lap times aren't the end all be all for me — were they, I'd be lusting after ZR1s and Caterhams, not Porsches.
My take on PDCC in the sports cars is: Promising, but not "there" yet. Like very early eGas, PASM, etc.
PSE, on the other hand, if you have the money, is very cool. Especially in the 991, where it is a big step up from the previous 997 systems.
All of the above is merely my take, offered to be helpful. YMMV, people have different opinions and tastes, etc....
P.S. I would love to do a test between the two. Getting the cars together has proven difficult. However, I believe Autocar did and came to the conclusion that PDCC offered little advantage in times (short course, I think...) and they didn't like the "feel" of it. At least, that's what I remember. Also, Dickie Meaden of EVO does not like 991s spec'd with PDCC. Two sources I do like...wish we had more of their type here in the U.S.
Cheers!
pete
To the OP's original question: PSE
To some of the discussion points: Have tried PDCC in a number of Porsches now, and love it in the Cayenne and Panamera (esp Panamera GTS). Do not like it in the 991. No understeer issues (I too suspect that is driver-induced?), but multiple 991s with PDCC have left me feeling disconnected from the car when pushed about as quick as I'll go on a public road.
I did notice an advantage (slight) in comfort with PDCC, and the cars I've tested (several coupes and one Cab) were all VERY nice up to about four- to five-tenths. Past that, it was hard to put a finger on why I was hauling, but not having much fun. I think it's PDCC, as the standard 991 Carrera coupe and Carrera S coupe w/o PDCC were both brilliant. Brilliant. I do not doubt PDCC's performance advantages, and know it offers a lap-time advantage at the Ring —*though question how much of a margin that will translate into on the rest of the world's (much shorter) race tracks. That said, lap times aren't the end all be all for me — were they, I'd be lusting after ZR1s and Caterhams, not Porsches.
My take on PDCC in the sports cars is: Promising, but not "there" yet. Like very early eGas, PASM, etc.
PSE, on the other hand, if you have the money, is very cool. Especially in the 991, where it is a big step up from the previous 997 systems.
All of the above is merely my take, offered to be helpful. YMMV, people have different opinions and tastes, etc....
P.S. I would love to do a test between the two. Getting the cars together has proven difficult. However, I believe Autocar did and came to the conclusion that PDCC offered little advantage in times (short course, I think...) and they didn't like the "feel" of it. At least, that's what I remember. Also, Dickie Meaden of EVO does not like 991s spec'd with PDCC. Two sources I do like...wish we had more of their type here in the U.S.
Cheers!
pete
10-12-2012, 10:19 AM
#42
Race Car
I completely agree with your assesment having driven both PDCC and non-PDCC "S" versions. I ended up ordering a SPASM, non-PDCC - should be in my Garage in December (phew, that is a 8 month wait from ordering. Never thought I'd like a car so much to wait that long...)
Rainier
Rainier
10-12-2012, 11:43 AM
#43
Three Wheelin'
What can we say about PDCC based on what has been reported - it definitely changes the feel of the car, it probably improves comfort during daily driving, it may reduce tyre wear and improve performance on track. Some may views these attributes negatively or positively. Like most options it boils down to personal taste and going with your gut!
In my case, I am really enjoying the SPASM coupled with the PDCC -- which I think is less of an issue of feel, or not feel, on the already less rolling lower/stiffer SPASM car. I am sure I would enjoy any and all combinations, though as it is a matter of degrees of the same excellent platform.
PSE -- only if it would provide measurable performance benefits, so I left that one off the build. I think the new stock exhaust note is far improved from my stock 997.1 sound, so no regrets. (Especially after I "tuned" the sound symposer to mute it down, and allow to hear the exhaust properly!).
Beatiful fall day here in the Mid-Atlantic today -- all this talk has got me excited for a back road drive at lunch time.
