When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Even if there are more coats in Munich there is still no sanding of the paint between coats so there will be orange peel. Just go into a dealership and look at the paint - it is quite obvious.
Even if there are more coats in Munich there is still no sanding of the paint between coats so there will be orange peel. Just go into a dealership and look at the paint - it is quite obvious.
For one thing it says 5 coats, for another it says Spartanburg not Munich. Did not spend more time to see what else you made up but I clearly said Munich and know what I saw with my own eyes while on a plant tour and have seen no talk of orange peel on the Bimmerfest forum for the last 5 years I have been an active member.
It is interesting that with some PTS colors they point out the additional labor of
hand sanding between coats....BTW: I don't believe that there are more than two
color coats.
Originally Posted by Gary JR
I saw no such thing in the paint area of the BMW plant in Munich. And there were
seven layers of paint and protectants being precisely applied.
Originally Posted by Jerry991
According to BMW there are 2 coats of color paint and one coat of clear.
Even if there are more coats in Munich there is still no sanding of the paint
between coats so there will be orange peel. Just go into a dealership and
look at the paint - it is quite obvious.
Technically, I believe there is only ONE coat of what the industry calls 'color
paint' at BMW (or any production German auto manufacturer) for their normal
automotive paint job. The other coat you are thinking about is called a 'primer'.
There are several hues of primers used depending on the 'color paint' chosen
for the exterior. So although the 'primer' might have a distinct tint that works
best with the chosen exterior 'color paint', I do not think it support your (Jerry991's)
statement that "According to BMW there are 2 coats of color paint".
Interestingly, BMW today remains the only European auto manufacturer that I have
visited that allows you still to see a portion of their paint shop. I have been to three
of BMW's facilities in Germany - Munich, Dingolfing & Regensburg. And I have been
taken to view parts of their paint shop at each! Even a glimpse of the paint shop is
no longer part of factory tours at Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Ferrari, Lamborghini,
Bentley, Jaguar and Morgan! I know that because I have visited them all. Back in
1981, on my first factory tour of Porsche Zuffenhausen, I did get a chance to see
parts of the old paint shop. But that is no longer part of the tour...and has not been
included in decades!
***
But your comments about 'orange peel' are interesting. I have been hearing about
'orange peel' on the Porsche production paint since about the time PAG went to a
eco-friendlier 'water-based' paint in 1992. Five years later, Porsche introduced
water-based fillers too! The first paint shop I saw was built in 1969. The second
was built in 1986. These two were at Werk II. There might have been another
improved paint shop at Werk II from 1986 to 2011 that I never saw. The latest
paint shop built at Zuffenhausen was done in 2011. It was constructed behind
Werk I in land acquired from Dürr AG a few years earlier. Interestingly, Dürr AG
provided much of the paint robots at the new plant. But in any event, it would
be interesting to see if the sanding in between coats for the special paint process
involved with the optional 'Saffron Yellow Metallic' paint eliminates the dreaded
'orange peel' on that paint!
The best information on the special multi-coat paint process of the 'Saffron
Yellow Metallic' option has been provided in a video released by Porsche.
However it seems to say that it's the intermediate clear coat (#2) that is being sanded by
hand...and not the base color coat (#1) nor the effect color coat (#3). Take a look at the
video & see if that is what supposedly this lady is actually saying since its being translated
from the German original:
If the 'orange peel' is gone, that alone might be worth the $11,580 cost of this
optional paint!
But if they only hand-sanded the intermediate clear (#2) & the
'orange peel' is gone, where does that leave the theory behind
this post:
"It is interesting that with some PTS colors they point out the
additional labor of hand sanding between coats. I am a senior
citizen and I remember when cars were produced without
orange peel in the paint which requires sanding between
coats. Today's manufacturers don't do that and that is why
virtually every car out there has awful orange peel in the
paint which includes Porsche, Mercedes, etc. And no matter
what you try to do to the finish you can't get rid of it because
it is in the paint layers below the top clear coat. This is one
reason why I laugh when guys are so concerned about the
finish on their cars and spend a lot of time and money on it
when all you can do is try to get any foreign substance off
the top coat and maybe get a bit of reflection off of it. Look
at a car that has been restored/painted by a really good
paint shop and you will see no orange peel in the paint
because they sand the paint between coats."
My guess is that the 'orange peel' would be there with any
normal water-based modern paint from Porsche, including
the $11,580 'Saffron' job! But we will wait to hear back the
feedback when more 'Saffron' Turbos show up stateside!
Technically, I believe there is only ONE coat of what the industry calls 'color
paint' at BMW (or any production German auto manufacturer) for their normal
automotive paint job. The other coat you are thinking about is called a 'primer'.
There are several hues of primers used depending on the 'color paint' chosen
for the exterior. So although the 'primer' might have a distinct tint that works
best with the chosen exterior 'color paint', I do not think it support your (Jerry991's)
statement that "According to BMW there are 2 coats of color paint".
Interestingly, BMW today remains the only European auto manufacturer that I have
visited that allows you still to see a portion of their paint shop. I have been to three
of BMW's facilities in Germany - Munich, Dingolfing & Regensburg. And I have been
taken to view parts of their paint shop at each! Even a glimpse of the paint shop is
no longer part of factory tours at Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Ferrari, Lamborghini,
Bentley, Jaguar and Morgan! I know that because I have visited them all. Back in
1981, on my first factory tour of Porsche Zuffenhausen, I did get a chance to see
parts of the old paint shop. But that is no longer part of the tour...and has not been
included in decades!
***
But your comments about 'orange peel' are interesting. I have been hearing about
'orange peel' on the Porsche production paint since about the time PAG went to a
eco-friendlier 'water-based' paint in 1992. Five years later, Porsche introduced
water-based fillers too! The first paint shop I saw was built in 1969. The second
was built in 1986. These two were at Werk II. There might have been another
improved paint shop at Werk II from 1986 to 2011 that I never saw. The latest
paint shop built at Zuffenhausen was done in 2011. It was constructed behind
Werk I in land acquired from Dürr AG a few years earlier. Interestingly, Dürr AG
provided much of the paint robots at the new plant. But in any event, it would
be interesting to see if the sanding in between coats for the special paint process
involved with the optional 'Saffron Yellow Metallic' paint eliminates the dreaded
'orange peel' on that paint!
The best information on the special multi-coat paint process of the 'Saffron
Yellow Metallic' option has been provided in a video released by Porsche.
However it seems to say that it's the intermediate clear coat (#2) that is being sanded by
hand...and not the base color coat (#1) nor the effect color coat (#3). Take a look at the
video & see if that is what supposedly this lady is actually saying since its being translated
from the German original:
If the 'orange peel' is gone, that alone might be worth the $11,580 cost of this
optional paint!
But if they only hand-sanded the intermediate clear (#2) & the
'orange peel' is gone, where does that leave the theory behind
this post:
"It is interesting that with some PTS colors they point out the
additional labor of hand sanding between coats. I am a senior
citizen and I remember when cars were produced without
orange peel in the paint which requires sanding between
coats. Today's manufacturers don't do that and that is why
virtually every car out there has awful orange peel in the
paint which includes Porsche, Mercedes, etc. And no matter
what you try to do to the finish you can't get rid of it because
it is in the paint layers below the top clear coat. This is one
reason why I laugh when guys are so concerned about the
finish on their cars and spend a lot of time and money on it
when all you can do is try to get any foreign substance off
the top coat and maybe get a bit of reflection off of it. Look
at a car that has been restored/painted by a really good
paint shop and you will see no orange peel in the paint
because they sand the paint between coats."
My guess is that the 'orange peel' would be there with any
normal water-based modern paint from Porsche, including
the $11,580 'Saffron' job! But we will wait to hear back the
feedback when more 'Saffron' Turbos show up stateside!
Saludos & Happy New Year,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
thanks for the explanation! all my cars I've ever owned had the orange peel (Porsches, BMW, Subarus, Mazdas, and my parents many MBs). Can't wait till see hear feedback on the saffron
There are only two color coats applied and then the clear - the others are prep and rustproofing, etc. Orange peel naturally happens unless there is sanding of the color coats and clear coat.
There are only two color coats applied and then
the clear - the others are prep and rustproofing,
etc.
That is incorrect!
The BMW Spartanburg website you posted clearly
states the 'coats' involved in the BMW paint process:
"In addition to receiving two protective corrosion
coats, sealant, primer, basecoat, and clear coat,
every BMW also receives supplemental bead
seams of seal for sound deadening, and cavity
wax that adds further rust protection". So one
primer coat, one basecoat & one clear coat...
not 'two color coats then the clear'! This will
be my last post on this subject, Jerry. You can
continue to believe whatever you want!
Eduardo,
I'm spending a lot of time on the configurator putting together an order for a base Carrera and have figured out most everything I want to order.
Here's the build code:
If you would be so kind to answer a couple of leather option questions?
The main reason I included option CZW Extended Interior Package, Dashboard Trim in Leather was to hopefully have the plastic hood on the Sports Chrono covered with leather.
Does option CZW cover the Sports Chrono hood in leather (I can't tell in the configurator)
I assume option XNG Instrument Surround in Leather is not included as part of option BM Leather Interior in Black/Bordeaux Red. So I'm not duplicating by including it, is that correct?
I'm considering including option XPT Storage Compartment Lid with Porsche Crest. The reason being, I've heard this option gives a more padded and better quality leather to the storage compartment lid, is that correct? If that is correct I'm wondering is the crest size on the compartment lid smaller than the one on the seat backs? I don't want to create overkill by having an additional Porsche Crest in the interior but would like to have the upgraded padding/leather. I don't want the Carrera Logo so the only other option is if XPT can be ordered blank without the crest? Is that an option?
Hi,
just want to know, if it this possible to order this part in leather?
Thank you very much in advance
Julian
Is it possible? Perhaps...as a CXX under the "Sunderwunsch" program.
Contact PCNA's 'Exclusive Manufaktur' rep in Atlanta & ask. Make sure
to be sitting down when you read their reply with a $ quote!
The other possibility, if PAG 'Exclusive' can't do it or if it's too expensive,
is to contact 'Exclusive Option', an aftermarket supplier in California:
Eduardo,
I'm spending a lot of time on the configurator putting together
an order for a base Carrera and have figured out most everything
I want to order.
Here's the build code:
If you would be so kind to answer a couple of leather option questions?
The main reason I included option CZW Extended Interior Package,
Dashboard Trim in Leather was to hopefully have the plastic hood on
the Sports Chrono covered with leather. Does option CZW cover the
Sports Chrono hood in leather (I can't tell in the configurator).
Yes...but it's so much more & worth the US$1,770 cost!
Interestingly enough, 'Exclusive Option' in California offers a 'twist' on the factory
option when you order from them.
991 Chrono Hood Trim
Black Leather with Red Deviated Stitching - $319
Notice how the Chrono Hood has an extra stitching
line on this photo from the normal factory option:
***
Originally Posted by nwjade
I assume option XNG Instrument Surround in Leather is not included as part of option
BM Leather Interior in Black/Bordeaux Red. So I'm not duplicating by including it, is
that correct?
Correct. The XNG ($380) option is not part of the BM ($4,280) Black/Bordeaux leather
interior option. It's additional if you want it.
***
Originally Posted by nwjade
I'm considering including option XPT Storage Compartment Lid with Porsche Crest.
The reason being, I've heard this option gives a more padded and better quality
leather to the storage compartment lid, is that correct?
I am not sure. I have BM (full leather interior) but no XPT. It looks & feels great!
Originally Posted by nwjade
If that is correct I'm wondering is the crest size on the compartment lid smaller
than the one on the seat backs?
I do not know with certainty the answer to that question. I have neither on my
current 991S. They look similar in size from what we see in the configurator.
Originally Posted by nwjade
I don't want to create overkill by having an additional Porsche Crest in the interior
but would like to have the upgraded padding/leather. I don't want the Carrera Logo
so the only other option is if XPT can be ordered blank without the crest? Is that an
option?
I do not know. Perhaps someone that has order XPT can tell us.
Eduardo,
One more question.
Do you have a link to your reference regarding the 3rd party 991 Chrono Hood Trim?
I'd like to check it out and their website but will probably order option XNG anyway as part of the build.
(All I found was http://www.shop.exclusiveoption.com/...91-991L20B.htm and it's $804.00)
Thanks!
Darrell
Interestingly enough, 'Exclusive Option' in California offers a 'twist' on the factory
option when you order from them.
991 Chrono Hood Trim
Black Leather with Red Deviated Stitching - $319
Notice how the Chrono Hood has an extra stitching
line on this photo from the normal factory option:
Eduardo,
One more question.
Do you have a link to your reference regarding the 3rd party 991 Chrono Hood Trim?
I'd like to check it out and their website but will probably order option XNG anyway as part of the build.
(All I found was http://www.shop.exclusiveoption.com/...91-991L20B.htm and it's $804.00)
Thanks!
Darrell
Interestingly enough, 'Exclusive Option' in California offers a 'twist' on the factory
option when you order from them.
991 Chrono Hood Trim
Black Leather with Red Deviated Stitching - $319
Notice how the Chrono Hood has an extra stitching
line on this photo from the normal factory option:
I don't believe that option is currently on their website
but they emailed me a few months ago that it's available
& sent me that attachment. You can contact 'Exclusive
Option' & request more information.
More personnel changes at 'Exclusive Manufaktur' in Atlanta
More unsettling news about PCNA & 'Exclusive Manufaktur' in the US.
I have been informed that Jon Brunot, who recently was named as the
replacement for Melissa Witek at 'Exclusive Manufaktur' at PCNA-Atlanta
is no longer with Porsche. I was also told late last summer that the manager
in charge of 'Exclusive Manufaktur' in Atlanta, Barbara Boeckenhoff, was
going to be replaced as part of normal rotation of jobs at Porsche. If anyone
knows if that has already taken place, please let us know...or pm/email me
if you have information on the personnel matter at 'Exclusive Manufaktur'
for the US.
Besides the two reps in the Los Angeles area, Philip Mauney & Florian Truffner,
'Exclusive Manufaktur' is still represented by Yana Nikolayeva & Michael Tam
(if he is still there?) in Atlanta! That is to my knowledge.
Eduardo,
One more question.
Do you have a link to your reference regarding the 3rd party 991 Chrono Hood Trim?
I'd like to check it out and their website but will probably order option XNG anyway as part of the build.
(All I found was http://www.shop.exclusiveoption.com/...91-991L20B.htm and it's $804.00)
Thanks!
Darrell
Interestingly enough, 'Exclusive Option' in California offers a 'twist' on the factory
option when you order from them.
991 Chrono Hood Trim
Black Leather with Red Deviated Stitching - $319
Notice how the Chrono Hood has an extra stitching
line on this photo from the normal factory option:
Hi Darrell,
Eduardo is correct that not all products are currently posted on our website. We plan on revamping our site to best accommodate our clients. You can always request a quote for a part by inquiry at info@exclusiveoption.com . There is no part which is off limits with us and our team will guide you and answer any questions you may have pertaining to your model.
12-31-2017, 04:37 PM
