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OK so I have the most exciting PTS ever, solid light grey ('Ooooohhh' I hear you say), so why am I drawn to these lurid colours? Each one is fantastic, particularly the yellow, orange and mauve. Lord knows if these are approved colours.
Many thanks to member AG911 for sourcing and posting in this thread.
For your viewing pleasure, I was next to this Targa at the PCA Chicago AX Training.
Was told by the owner Fashion Grey. Very nice subtle color.-Richard
When ordering the extended leather option and already choosing the deviated stitching option for the dashboard, does the stitching at the top of the dash/speakers/sportschrono come in the deviated color as well?
I also ordered the rear center tunnel leather in decorative stitching too but it didn't give us the option to pick deviated stitching. I have deviated stitching on the seats, door panels, front dash and upper door and rear panels. Thanks
When ordering the extended leather option and already choosing the deviated stitching option for the dashboard, does the stitching at the top of the dash/speakers/sportschrono come in the deviated color as well?
I also ordered the rear center tunnel leather in decorative stitching too but it didn't give us the option to pick deviated stitching. I have deviated stitching on the seats, door panels, front dash and upper door and rear panels. Thanks
When you order the extended leather dashboard (CZW), the dealer has to specify the color for the deviated stitching in the comments section of the CZW option so that the stitching is the deviated color you want (for example, in my order the dealer wrote "black leather, pebble grey contrast stitching") in the comments section.
For the 991.2, the way that deviated stitching works in the center area has changed. Option 90003 (deviated stitching option for option XHS (rear center tunnel)) is gone, and you want to pick the new option, 24906 (center console lid stitching in deviated thread) instead. With the 991.1, option 90003 would have included both the center console lid and the rear center tunnel. With the 991.2, the rear center tunnel is done in the same thread as the rear seats, and you need to pick 24906 to get the center console lid.
I am almost at my limit of 'angst' with PTS at Porsche. I have contacted
my sources at PAG & PCNA this week over the '3rd Party' PTS painting
rumor first posted by Unotaz & Whoopsy in a 991 gt3 forum thread &
have yet to receive a reply. You can follow the exchange at the link
below:
Hopefully we will get a response & the matter clarified for the record.
In the meantime, I will no longer be involved carrying any further
'water' for Porsche on the PTS topic until I get more cooperation
from those individuals tasked - & paid handsomely - to deal with
their PTS customers (of which I am one) at this corporation, which
last I heard is still a for-profit organization. And I like to remind
all that PTS is a profitable option (recently adjusted up in price to
nearly $7K from $5.5K) regardless the headaches re: its convoluted
logistics at PAG!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale, AZ
Thus the following post which I wrote elsewhere at Rennlist:
Originally Posted by secretcollector
Is there a more recent one than July, 2015?
If so, would someone please post a link to it or the PDF?
Thanks!
Originally Posted by bronson7
Might want to send Eduardo a pm.
If anyone would know it would be the King of PTS.
"The 'King', eh? Better than the 'Queen' in this case, I guess.
Gents: The problem is that since July 2015 PAG has categorized
the approved PTS lists 'For Internal Use Only - Confidential'.
I have an even more updated list than Feb 12, 2016 but my copy
doesn't have an exact date. But it has more colors approved than
the Feb 2016 list...so I know it's newer! For example, in it 'Nardo
Grey', the Audi color I chose for my new '16 RS7 (but referred by
Audi as 'Nardo Gray'), has been finally approved for PTS at Porsche!
I am still getting the approved PTS list from my sources inside the
organization but I will not post them in a public forum until I get
permission from Porsche. I have been trying to convince PAG that
it's not in the best interest of their customers, and ultimately PAG,
to hide this list, keep it secret & surround it in 'mystery' once again.
That is the world we lived with during the pre-991 model period
before we started publishing the list & explaining how PTS works
in a series of threads dating back to 2012 here at Rennlist. As a
matter of fact, just four of these threads now have total views
of over one million views...a testament to the popularity of the
subject matter among enthusiasts here at Rennlist! And that
interest has directly translated into record demand for this most
'unique' of options that you can order in a Porsche!
I have made my views known on the 'Confidential' obstacle to the
posting of the approved list to Barbara Boeckenhoff - Manager,
Porsche Exclusive & Personal Design - PCNA, as well as to other
individuals in key positions at both PAG & PCNA. But so far it has
been to no avail. So it's up to all of you, if you want to know the
approved PTS colors & how the PTS windows work, to lobby your
contacts at Porsche & the P-dealers to disseminate this information
& not hold it 'confidential'. The premise of keeping this information
close to the vest is the false assumption that by 'us' not talking about
it too much at places like Rennlist, or allowing the list to be published
in the internet, demand for PTS will go 'down' & be more 'manageable'
for those responsible for planning this 'troublesome' option at the factory.
In the end, PAG will decide what it wants to do...and we either will have
to accept it or shop elsewhere for an alternative brand. I am not going
to send this list to any of you without the approval of PAG, so please
don't ask. So if you want to know about approved PTS colors, you need
to demand a response from PAG, PCNA & your P-dealers. And you can
start by contacting 'Porsche Exclusive' in Atlanta. Even though this group
doesn't actually run PTS in Germany, 'Porsche Exclusive' can be a sounding
board that allows Porsche to hear what you want in regards the PTS program
& option.
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
Porsche Exclusive - Personal Design Studio
One Porsche Drive
Atlanta, GA 30354
E-Mail: PersonalDesign@porsche.us
So please give it some thought & contact them about this important
topic. Otherwise it will become (once again) the 'exclusive' option
of only those well connected to dealers 'in the know' & assorted VIP's.
And if we return to this 'opaque' world of PTS, the average Porsche
customer will be the principal loser!
So it's up to each & everyone of you to determine the future of this
Paint-to-Sample program. Caveat emptor. You have been warned."
When I learned about PTS through RennList and Eduardo, my Sales Manager told me that it was a program for Pashas and oil tycoons.
When I saw a Boxster that a noted IndyCar driver had just taken delivery in a PTS color, he was nice enough to forward all his communication with Porsche NA. I sent abstracted versions to both Porsche NA and the Sales Manager basically asking WTF, why not me?
I was asked how much I was willing to pay for the additional trim painting and how long of a wait would be acceptable before a request was made. As it turns out, the delay was two weeks and the cost about $4K.
My recent 991.2 was not available with PTS but that doesn't mean that Porsche Exclusive is out of business. I wanted one simple thing, paint my Sport Chrono bezel ring Carmine Red to match the vent trim and exterior. Melissa replied to my Sales Advisor essentially saying it had never been done before and that was that.
So my dealings have not been very satisfying with either the PTS program and Porsche Exclusive.
I will write a letter to Porsche Exclusive because I think I have one more Porsche in me before the 'Driving Police' take my driving license away, simply based on age!-Richard
When I learned about PTS through RennList and Eduardo,
my Sales Manager told me that it was a program for Pashas
and oil tycoons...So my dealings have not been very satisfying
with either the PTS program and Porsche Exclusive. I will write
a letter to Porsche Exclusive because I think I have one more
Porsche in me before the 'Driving Police' take my driving license
away, simply based on age!-Richard
Thank you, Richard! The more the folks at Porsche hear from
repeat customers like you, the better chance they will make
improvements in the PTS program!
***
Here is a relevant post on the subject from another thread:
Originally Posted by CAlexio
I concur with Eduardo that it makes no sense to offer
such a huge palette...if prospective owners don't even
know these $7500 option colors exist!
Originally Posted by Loess
I was a bit upset that I missed the PTS window...
Originally Posted by budrichard
As to PTS and Porsche Exclusive, well my two
experiences were both wanting.
-Richard
Originally Posted by Nizer
A lot of us couldn't get PTS...This is the last RS for me
if I can't get PTS on the next. Prices are up too much
and wait times too long to not get what I want.
Originally Posted by GreenLantern
I cannot +1 this any harder. It's been a horrid
experience for me this round.
Gents: The only way to perhaps change the PTS process
for the better is to contact Porsche (via 'Porsche Exclusive'
reps, for example) & let them know how you feel as a
Porsche customer!
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
Porsche Exclusive - Personal Design Studio
One Porsche Drive
Atlanta, GA 30354
E-Mail: PersonalDesign@porsche.us
****
Originally Posted by mile2424
Didn't they just spend tons of money on a new environmental
friendly state of the art paint shop a few years or so ago? I find
it hard to believe they would be out-sourcing....
Yes...indeed!
***
Originally Posted by dark knight
...I am also truly shocked that Porsche would paint any car
outside of the factory, I presume the plastic parts are painted
elsewhere, but how can a 3rd party produce the quality that
the Zuffenhausen paint shop can?
Originally Posted by Loess
Maybe they are painted at one of the VW factories?
Well, the Panameras are presently welded together & painted
at a VW plant in Hannover. That arrangement will shortly end
& all welding & painting on the Panamera will be shifted to
Leipzig. The plan is to move final assembly of the Cayenne
to the Volkswagen Bratislava Plant, where a good portion of
that model is already done (welding together, paint & initial
assembly). That will free up space in Porsche Leipzig for all
the Panamera production, from A to Z ('sauf' engines, which
are all done at Zuffenhausen). The Macan is presently the
only model built (primarily) at Porsche Leipzig.
The Cayman are now all done at the VW Karmann plant in Osnabrück. That plant initially also assembled 981 Boxsters
but demand for the gt4 has made it mostly now a Cayman-
only assembly line. The 718 & 991 are built in Zuffenhausen.
And if Porsche does indeed sub-contract all PTS to a third
party, my bet would be that the facility used is the massive
Volkswagen's Mosel-Zwickau factory. That, believe it or not,
is where all Bentley Continental GT & GTC bodies are welded
& painted before they are shipped to Crewe England for final
assembly at that venerable factory!
Panorama of the Volkswagen Mosel-Zwickau factory
***
Originally Posted by lessthan3mph
Here's what I wrote in that email. It is my conjecture only, based
on my interpretation of observations. Full disclosure: I am NOT
in the know about how PTS really works. I'd love to be proved
wrong, but I think PTS is being managed in a very deliberate way.
"I've gotten the impression that PTS has turned into something
completely different from a standard option. It seems more and
more like PAG is using PTS to reward VIP customers and dealerships.
The way they've conducted PTS for the R was the pinnacle of this
practice. (It was entirely cloaked in secrecy: PTS allocations were
not randomly handed out, but were offered only to those with
exceedingly high VIP status but without any clarity other than to
those who were in the know.) Same with how they've made the
list confidential. And how they don't announce windows.
It's almost as if PTS is so popular and it's value beyond the list
price (massive impact on resale value, wow factor, prestige,
rarity, historic connection, etc), that PAG is now using that to
their advantage by making it a way to create a pecking order.
It's basically a way to give some customers preference and
special treatment above and beyond the allocation of the car
itself.
I think in order to maintain and benefit from this practice,
PAG has likely made a decision to keep PTS shrouded in
mystery. This secrecy allows them to set the rules and
creates a greater value for PTS. I'm not sure they currently
want all of the information about PTS made public. And I
suspect that is why you haven't yet been able to make the
trip to speak with them about PTS. I'm getting the feeling
it's basically what they want.
The truth is, we all (on RL) have benefited from information
that has put us in a position to take advantage of something
when ordering our cars (knowledge of options, what's desirable,
what colours are significant, what is the likely importance or
rarity of a new model, etc). Like you, I've tried to be open
about information that I've obtained. However, I have also
been entrusted with info that I've kept confidential. I suspect
the latter is the way PAG wants PTS to operate. Like a grey
market for information to those they want to inform.
While I think it would be great if you could get an interview,
I suspect all the info that PAG is willing to share has already
been shared with you. So tbh I'm doubtful they'll offer up
much more if and when you do meet with them.
I've just been getting that feeling more and more as I think
about things. I was fortunate to get PTS on my (originally
2014 spec) GT3. But in the intervening few years it has
gotten much harder for first time customers like me. Now
it is a huge accomplishment to land a PTS slot."
And it is really irking many customers when PTS is unachievable.
As today's "PTS Confidential" poll
seems to indicate, there is very strong (90% or more) support
from some of Porsche's most loyal, knowledgeable, and passionate
enthusiasts (yes, RLer's, take a bow) to make the PTS approved
colour list public. I hope this little bit of info will help emphasize
that point with PAG.
Thanks again, Eduardo, for all your help and info about PTS.
I benefitted a lot from it, and I hope others will be able to
continue to do so in the future. PAG, LISTEN TO EDUARDO,
AND PLEASE GIVE HIM THE CHANCE TO SPEAK TO YOUR
REPRESENTATIVES CANDIDLY ABOUT THE PTS PROGRAM!
Thank you Daniel for your many contributions
to our collective knowledge of PTS at Porsche!
***
Originally Posted by Houndstooth
Mind Boggling: PAG, pick 20 colors from the PTS list,
charge $10,000 as an option. Done. Want a super
special color? $15,000
Ferrari charges $12,500 for OUT OF RANGE COLOR
(PAG PTS) paint colors and $26,500 for true PTS
(if you want your car to match your sofa).
Porsche should use this terminology as well
Originally Posted by usctrojanGT3
Paint to Sofa?
Well, he is not that far off! How about 'Paint to Wife's Shoe'?
When you order the extended leather dashboard (CZW), the dealer has to specify the color for the deviated stitching in the comments section of the CZW option so that the stitching is the deviated color you want (for example, in my order the dealer wrote "black leather, pebble grey contrast stitching") in the comments section.
For the 991.2, the way that deviated stitching works in the center area has changed. Option 90003 (deviated stitching option for option XHS (rear center tunnel)) is gone, and you want to pick the new option, 24906 (center console lid stitching in deviated thread) instead. With the 991.1, option 90003 would have included both the center console lid and the rear center tunnel. With the 991.2, the rear center tunnel is done in the same thread as the rear seats, and you need to pick 24906 to get the center console lid.
Looks like my sales ambassador specified the Pebble Gray thread on the other leather pieces. It also came with the clear turn indicators. This just arrived last night. Why does it have to be Sunday???!!!
Looks like my sales ambassador specified the Pebble Gray thread on the other leather pieces. It also came with the clear turn indicators. This just arrived last night. Why does it have to be Sunday???!!!
Looking good Here are the codes for others who want to do the same thing:
176 Sport Exhaust System
24891 Seat Stitching in Deviated Thread (Front and Rear)
24901 Dashboard Stitching in Deviated Thread
24902 Upper Door Panel Stitching in Deviated Thread
24905 Rear Side Panel Stitching in Deviated Thread
24906 Center Console Lid Stitching in Deviated Thread
250 Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK)
26741 Center Door Panel Stitching in Deviated Thread
26751 Armrest Stitching in Deviated Thread
26761 Door Handle Stitching in Deviated Thread
276 Auto-Dimming Mirrors
342 Seat heating (front)
427 20" Carrera Classic Wheels
446 Wheel center caps with colored Porsche Crest
489 Multifunction and Heated Steering Wheel
529 SportDesign exterior mirrors
559 Side Window Trim in Aluminum (High-Gloss)
583 Smoking package
630 Light Design Package
90027 Steering Column Casing with Stitching in Deviated Thread
9VJ Burmester® High-End Surround Sound System
AZ Leather interior in Black
CVW Rear-view mirror in leather
CZW Extended Interior Package, Dashboard Trim in Leather
N0 Agate Grey Metallic
P05 Sport Seats Plus (4-way)
QR5 Sport Chrono Package
XHS Rear center tunnel in leather with decorative stitching
XMP Sun Visors in Leather
XNS Steering column casing in leather
XPT Storage compartment lid with Porsche Crest
XSC Porsche Crest on headrests
Does/can anyone on the outside know more about PTS than Eduardo?
Thanks Pete...I & others here at Rennlist work very hard at it to
make known as much useful information as humanly possible on
this interesting subject, without stepping over the line of confidentiality
with information obtained from reliable sources at Porsche!
***
Let me put this in perspective so that everyone knows precisely
what Pete Stout is referring to in his response today! Here is a
copy of my recent post which mentions Pete by name!
Originally Posted by JanisK
That perfectly explains why the finish on a PTS car is not like
on a stock car �� with stock car being the standard and PTS
somewhat catching up with it. Should it not be the other way
round?
Funny you should say that. I ran into Pete Stout, editor of
PCA's Panorama at the IMSA Laguna Seca race this past
weekend. In discussing the topic, he mentioned that he
thinks that PTS cars have a superior finish to the standard
'stock' cars known to be painted at Zuffenhausen. He
specifically mentioned to me the superb paint (lack of
orange peel in particular) on our friend Jeff Zwart's old
PTS 'Meerblau' 997 gt3 RS 4.0 Limited Edition:
I hope Pete, a frequent Rennlist contributor, chimes in
on his thoughts on the subject. He recently wrote an
editorial about PTS in Panorama, so he is quite knowledgeable
on the subject!
By the way, our own 'Sportscentury', my good friend from
Idaho, wrote an interesting letter to the editor in response
to Pete's PTS column. You can read it in the latest edition
of Panorama:
[/QUOTE]
And here is Pete's reply today to that post:
Originally Posted by stout
In that conversation—nice to run into you, Eduardo!—I did
mention something I had remembered from a discussion
about Jeff's RS 4.0: Several people had noticed that car's
nice paint surfaces and different texture/lack of orange
peel compared to normal 987/997 paint. I also have been
thinking about some of the paint flaws or "rough/unpolished
edges" documented in some GT4 color correction threads
(was it the GT4 colour thread on Pistonheads?) with photos
that showed examples. Those rough edges looked like
leftovers from hand work to me, but who can know?
It did make me wonder if the same areas on Porsches
in standard colors would show similar flaws in the finish.
Might be interesting to park a few PTS cars with a few
standard color cars and really look at the finish and
texture of the painted surfaces. If it comes from the
same shops and the same machines...it should probably
have the same surfaces. Of course, there may be another
explanation if it doesn't, but it might point to an
off-site painter.
Sounds like a case for the PTS Whisperer...
PTS Whisperer indeed...I just wish PAG would allow
us to understand how the PTS program really works
so that we can even the playing field. The 'little' guy,
if a normal relatively wealthy Porsche customer can
be described as such, might not ever get an opportunity
to order a Limited Edition like the 911R...but he should
have at least a crack at PTS! For heavens sake...our
money is equally as 'green' as those of 918 VIPs!
And we are the loyal customers that have stood with
Porsche our entire lifetime as customers through thick
...and thin!
Did PAG or PCNA respond to your Editor's Note in which
you made some helpful suggestions re PTS in the pages of
PCA's Panorama! To protect copyright material, the image
of your PTS article is too small to read on this post but I
encourage all to open their Feb edition of Pano & read it!
03-21-2016, 06:59 PM
