+1
Haha...That's right!!!

 

Ok...I get you don't like the looks of the car and think it is "rice." That's cool...different strokes my friend...but before you say it won't endure you should look inward into the Porsche community that poo poos the 996 look vs. the 993/997 look and now the 991 version of the 911.

I can't readily compare the 911 line to the GTR with regard to enduring "look"...I think the 911 is in its own class because it really is the only sports car I know of that you could look at the first ever model from 1963 and see one from today and know it was from the same manufacturer.

The 996 is still a great ride...its not my preference but nonetheless worthy of some respect aside from it's looks.

 

I switched from 2012 GTR to 991.

GTR wins on mid range performance and the 4 wheel drive exploits this. It's much faster than the 991
although the 991 is fast at 6K plus revs.

GTR wins on equipment and the Recaros miles better than 991 Sports Plus seats.

Also gets a lot more attention and feels more solid - I'd rather have a crash in a GTR.

Rear seats slightly better albeit still for kids. Caveat is 991 better for 2 really smally kids in the back but GTR better for one larger kid behind front passenger (I'm six ft).

In every other way the 991 the winner.

Better sounding engine

Much better dual clutch gearbox = paddles change down quicker and Sports Plus adds another dimension. And doesn't sound as fragile as GTR's.

Much quieter to cruise in and much better ride.

More nimble - GTR a big beast that you manhandle down the road.

Less tramlining than GTR

Service intervals much longer than GTR's every year

So imo the 991 a clear winner but I still miss the GTR's explosive acceleration and Porsche's pricing policy re extras really beginning to **** me off.

If Nissan can crack the ride and tyre noise, add a Sport Plus gearbox and make engine more tuneful I'd probably buy another.

 

You took the words right out of my mouth. Exactly. Add some refinement with suspension management with a true comfort mode, get rid of the noise, and refine the gearbox. Great points, but especially the Porsche pricing with basically everything everyone wants as an option. Pure BS.

 

I get people like to have these discussions. But this is akin to watching someone go into a bar in Pittsburgh wearing a Ravens jacket and demanding respect for their team. Really? does anyone expect this not to be provocative?

No matter the original intent it usually ends up unpleasant. Of course my comment is just an amusing observation :P and should be taken as such.

 

Apologies if I sounded provocative but I'm not sure why?

Personally I feel no brand loyalty. At any one time I want to by the best car I can afford and I don't care whether its a Nissan or an Aston.

The above was my subjective view and since I'd owned a GTR (which many 991 owners might consider as an alternative) i thought some of you might find the comparison interesting.

Also how can it be provocative when I conclude I prefer the 991!

And I can't believe any of you don't feel like you've been royally screwed by the price of basic extras?

£1700 for Sports Exhaust. £4,000 for adaptive seats etc. I had to cough up over £10K in extras and what really pisses me off is how crap the Sports Plus seats are for a £93K car.

 

This was a general statement not intended or aimed at any one person. To be honest, I didn't even read your post until you responded. I'm sorry if you felt like this was directed to you.

 

The two most common perspectives are that it's either nice to be able to get the car at the lowest price without paying for automatic dimming mirrors as "mandatory" and then build the car to the desired spec, or there's the assessment that the "real" base price of the car is not $90K (or whatever) but more like $105K if "appropriately" spec'd for the subjective expectation of what a Porsche 911 (or competitor) "should" have for the intended buyer or market segment.

My pet peeve since the 996 and Cayenne, is the "New York Taxi" materials (elephant hide vinyl dash, etc.) in the cabin of a US$100K car. The other "you've got to be kidding me" issue is when deleting expensive equipment (sunroof, Xenon headlights, audio) there's no reduction in price. Of course Porsche is about profit and no price on the menu is justifiable as a real business process or materials cost of goods sold, but still, as a "reasonable" consideration to the customer, if you take out $2K in headlights and reduce the complexity of parts to build the car -- and QA and warranty for its lifetime -- then surely at least some price adjustment or net credit is in order.

In any case, since the 997, Porsche has exceeded its price range in the US market (even though it's relatively "cheap" compared to other world markets, but that's economics) and the 991 only extends further outside their buyer's reach. Like the move from the 964 to the 993, sooner or later, Porsche will have to "reset" the 911 pricing. Given the higher "standard" equipment level in the 991, perhaps there's plans afoot to make the next 911 fully "decontented" to rationalize a price reduction. I think there's little doubt that Porsche see the writing on the wall in terms of dismal unit volume sales, especially in the high-end products (911 Turbo S, Panamera Turbo S, 911 GT2, GT2 RS) and has resolved some sort of plan to offer competitive products to maintain their position relative to BMW and Mercedes while introducing new sub-brands above the 911 to compete with Ferrari and McLaren. I find it quite impressive that McLaren can just walk into an established market and start bullying the established brand vendors from day one. McLaren has hurdled the barriers to entry as if nothing, now all they have to do is, well, everything else ... support, warranty, quality, service, secondary market residual values ... it's going to be interesting ...

 

Well said. The mere thought of having to pay 2k for HIDS is flat out pathetic, seeming that even a Hyundai has them on their cars. BMW also has similar but not as severe option "penalites". What I dont understand is why Porsche simply has to be so GD expensive, especially in relation to the BMW baseprice. Very irritating and I only think it will get worse. Porsche tax is for real, and punitive--even when you "got it" it still bothers me to have to spend that much unnecessarily. It is just something you do, yet never feel even remotely good about it.

 

^^^Thats why buying 1-2 yrs pre-owned isn't a bad thing...let someone else take the depreciation hit of the car and the options on the car. Too bad Porsche depreciation isnt as bad as the MB's...my 2006 SL65 bought in 2009 by me was $100k less than the retail price.

 

Smart. Very smart. That MB is one sweet car.

 

I have driven a 2011 GT-R and the 991 and I like both cars a LOT! 991 seems like a better daily driver but the cost differential is REAL. The 991 is available at every P dealer but the GT-R is not at all easy to find. I am not sure what that means when it comes to service should problems arise.

GT-R is scary fast; 991 is not nearly the same at low end. I did not test either at mid to high range.
Interesting comments from the membership.
Loyalty to a brand is not my passion.
I love my 2010 M3 but still enjoy looking.
991 Turbo ..... ah the wait is great.