Negative Nancy's.....
04-10-2012, 10:46 AM
#106
You've completely misinterpreted the point of the gentleman who started and named this thread. Reread the first post. The OP (who has in fact ordered a 991) is wondering why everyone is concentrating on negative issues (hence the name Negative Nancy's) instead of the many improvements of the new 911. The thread isn't asking for people to respond with criticism, it is in fact asking why people are so negative.
Personally, I wonder at the point of regurgitating the same complaints over and over. As soon as anyone makes a positive comment about the 991, someone chimes in with a redundant counterpoint about the center console, the rear deck lettering, the piped in engine sound, the curved headlights, the numb steering, blah blah blah, ad nauseum. I get it. The point has been made (many times over). The Negative Nancys don't like it. Don't buy one. Just don't get your feelings hurt when you try to keep up with one. Sheeesh.....
Personally, I wonder at the point of regurgitating the same complaints over and over. As soon as anyone makes a positive comment about the 991, someone chimes in with a redundant counterpoint about the center console, the rear deck lettering, the piped in engine sound, the curved headlights, the numb steering, blah blah blah, ad nauseum. I get it. The point has been made (many times over). The Negative Nancys don't like it. Don't buy one. Just don't get your feelings hurt when you try to keep up with one. Sheeesh.....
I haven't "misinterpreted" anything -- if you post a thread complaining about people complaining -- it's going to attract the individuals with complaints...
...and I won't have my feelings hurt trying to keep up because I won't be "trying to keep up" -- in this price range it's hard to find a car that wouldn't be well ahead...
04-10-2012, 11:00 AM
#107
I'm wondering whether this thread was supposed to discuss something belonging to Negative Nancy. Her 991, perhaps?
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe
04-10-2012, 11:01 AM
#108
man the recipe for these posts is always the same:
1. I could have easily afforded the 991...its not about the money
2. it lost its soul? My xyz 911 has so much soul
3. I like luxury and comfort so i bought a 997 not a 993 turbo for the same money, but god damn if my 997 is not a stripped down race car compared to a 991.
4. Steering feel...this new system is terrible
5. Panamera 2 door. so much bigger, etc.
God at least get creative. Talk about how the seat belts are too luxurious and the trunk latch doesn't have the same high quality feel it used to.
1. I could have easily afforded the 991...its not about the money
2. it lost its soul? My xyz 911 has so much soul
3. I like luxury and comfort so i bought a 997 not a 993 turbo for the same money, but god damn if my 997 is not a stripped down race car compared to a 991.
4. Steering feel...this new system is terrible
5. Panamera 2 door. so much bigger, etc.
God at least get creative. Talk about how the seat belts are too luxurious and the trunk latch doesn't have the same high quality feel it used to.
- The buttons in the center console - besides being too loud - are extremely "plasticy" and cheap. They remind me of the cheap plastic buttons in an Audi S5.
- The door interior has a strange layout that looks like it belongs more in a spaceship than a 911.
- Baby seat details are embossed on the rear leather seats... Really?
- No option for a Mezger motor in any 991's solely due to cost.
- Gaudy navigation screen prominently displayed in the center of the vehicle. Instead of making this unnecessary (to many of us) piece of crap free - how about giving us full leather for free in our 100k car...
- Hideous rear license plate holder design on USA version that looks substantially better in Europe as it actually matches the body lines
- only a 20hp bump in base model from 2005-2012 which has not kept up with competition; 45hp bump in "S" model is barely adequate
- Numerous investments made in fuel saving nonsense technologies such as engine start/stop instead of higher performance -- e.g. more HP
- No options for 19" wheels on the "S" cars-- not all of us want to ride on "dubs"
The 991 was not made for the former European/North American 911 owner. It was designed for conquest sales from BMW/Mercedes and the Asian market with Porsche hoping former 911 owners would simply fall in. As evidenced by the number of cars available on dealer lots - we're not...
Both my local dealers still have launch cars available and they'll discount. I predict current iterations of the 991 will be a huge flop in NA and as someone who has recently owned and follows Porsche stock I think the market is taking notice....
04-10-2012, 11:26 AM
#109
Race Director
I'll take these one by one.
bull****. The doors close almost identically. You want a difference, close an aircooled door and then your 997s door.
wait, the buttons are loud now? As to the cheap buttons, what the hell do you think is in the 997? billet aluminum.
Its the same ****...deal with it.
spend much time in space ships?
The 911 has always been sold as the practical "supercar". Some people put their kids in it...you don't, who cares. Does this have even the most minor impact on your ownership experience.
yawn. Mezger was a great engine...so is the 9A1. Prove me wrong.
yawn...navigation is HIGHLY demanded by buyers, hence its there. Its placement is for safety reasons.
Why do you want full leather? I thought you had a race car
really? really?
Porsche has literally always been behind the competition in hp. Every single generation. how 45 addition bhp in a lighter car is barely adequate is unclear to me.
OMFG...not good gas mileage...who wants that. So ****ing what the car shuts off and restarts. I swear you guys complain about the stupidest crap.
I'll put $1000 on the fact that if you were on the track, you could barely make use of all the power you have now. If you want a more powerful car, buy a GT series.
You want smaller wheels, sell your dubs, and get some aftermarket ****.
I like how 19s are ok, but that extra inch just changes everything
wow, you base your entire statement on a car thats been out what? 2 months
Not to mention your worthless anecdotal evidence about discounts and dealer inventory.
ps., no one cares about your prediction...it isn't even worth the bandwidth you wasted to post it.
- The buttons in the center console - besides being too loud - are extremely "plasticy" and cheap. They remind me of the cheap plastic buttons in an Audi S5.
Its the same ****...deal with it.
- The door interior has a strange layout that looks like it belongs more in a spaceship than a 911.
- Baby seat details are embossed on the rear leather seats... Really?
- No option for a Mezger motor in any 991's solely due to cost.
- Gaudy navigation screen prominently displayed in the center of the vehicle. Instead of making this unnecessary (to many of us) piece of crap free - how about giving us full leather for free in our 100k car...
Why do you want full leather? I thought you had a race car
- Hideous rear license plate holder design on USA version that looks substantially better in Europe as it actually matches the body lines
- only a 20hp bump in base model from 2005-2012 which has not kept up with competition; 45hp bump in "S" model is barely adequate
- Numerous investments made in fuel saving nonsense technologies such as engine start/stop instead of higher performance -- e.g. more HP
I'll put $1000 on the fact that if you were on the track, you could barely make use of all the power you have now. If you want a more powerful car, buy a GT series.
- No options for 19" wheels on the "S" cars-- not all of us want to ride on "dubs"
I like how 19s are ok, but that extra inch just changes everything
The 991 was not made for the former European/North American 911 owner. It was designed for conquest sales from BMW/Mercedes and the Asian market with Porsche hoping former 911 owners would simply fall in. As evidenced by the number of cars available on dealer lots - we're not...
Both my local dealers still have launch cars available and they'll discount. I predict current iterations of the 991 will be a huge flop in NA and as someone who has recently owned and follows Porsche stock I think the market is taking notice....
Both my local dealers still have launch cars available and they'll discount. I predict current iterations of the 991 will be a huge flop in NA and as someone who has recently owned and follows Porsche stock I think the market is taking notice....
Not to mention your worthless anecdotal evidence about discounts and dealer inventory.
ps., no one cares about your prediction...it isn't even worth the bandwidth you wasted to post it.
04-10-2012, 11:58 AM
#110
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Now wait a second. You've never owned a classic air cooled Porsche, unlike many of us who are impressed by the 991. You had considered one once but because they were so uncomfortable you passed on the opportunity. Hmmm. Skipping over the 996 which you denigrate, you have settled on the 997 as the sweet spot of Porschedom, and have decided that the 991 is not worthy of carrying on the Porsche spirit. Moreover, those of us who owned early 911's, 996's, 997's, and now appreciate the 991 are merely posers who don't understand the "very soul" of Porsche as well as the guy who has owned a single model for a couple of years in his lifetime. Really.....
Giving you the benefit of the doubt it's the former, my point was that I am definitely not a hard-core purist when it comes to things like technology and creature comforts in a Porsche, yet even I find the 991 a step too far in numerous respects.
04-10-2012, 12:21 PM
#111
Three Wheelin'
I'm not a regular poster on this forum these days as my last 997 went a while ago and I really want to drive something more visceral and purely for pleasure - a 2.7RS Rep? The 991 is a great car - but it's different from what went before. It has much broader capabilities than any 911 that went before, but that inevitably creates compromises and new choices, so I'm not sure a direct comparison makes a lot of sense: that's a zero sum game that will take you back to a 356...
All this whining about quality of switch gear etc. is so much wasteful pi$$ing into the wind. If you don't like the 991 there's no point complaining about it here - it's designed and built and you're not going to change it now. In the end it's a free country: no one is forcing you to buy a 991, or even a Porsche come to that.
Porsche is a growing business and if what you want doesn't fit what they have to offer then go elsewhere. Maybe you;re not as important to them as you thought you were, so why not save your breath and move on to somewhere where people want to listen to you and think you add constructive value to the discussion.
All this whining about quality of switch gear etc. is so much wasteful pi$$ing into the wind. If you don't like the 991 there's no point complaining about it here - it's designed and built and you're not going to change it now. In the end it's a free country: no one is forcing you to buy a 991, or even a Porsche come to that.
Porsche is a growing business and if what you want doesn't fit what they have to offer then go elsewhere. Maybe you;re not as important to them as you thought you were, so why not save your breath and move on to somewhere where people want to listen to you and think you add constructive value to the discussion.
04-10-2012, 12:48 PM
#112
- The door doesn't have the same high quality feel it used to. Go close the door on a 2012 GTS and than a 2012 991 -- it's a night and day difference but I'll attribute it to weight savings making the 991 door feel "cheaper"...
- The buttons in the center console - besides being too loud - are extremely "plasticy" and cheap. They remind me of the cheap plastic buttons in an Audi S5.
- The door interior has a strange layout that looks like it belongs more in a spaceship than a 911.
- Baby seat details are embossed on the rear leather seats... Really?
- No option for a Mezger motor in any 991's solely due to cost.
- Gaudy navigation screen prominently displayed in the center of the vehicle. Instead of making this unnecessary (to many of us) piece of crap free - how about giving us full leather for free in our 100k car...
- Hideous rear license plate holder design on USA version that looks substantially better in Europe as it actually matches the body lines
- only a 20hp bump in base model from 2005-2012 which has not kept up with competition; 45hp bump in "S" model is barely adequate
- Numerous investments made in fuel saving nonsense technologies such as engine start/stop instead of higher performance -- e.g. more HP
- No options for 19" wheels on the "S" cars-- not all of us want to ride on "dubs"
The 991 was not made for the former European/North American 911 owner. It was designed for conquest sales from BMW/Mercedes and the Asian market with Porsche hoping former 911 owners would simply fall in. As evidenced by the number of cars available on dealer lots - we're not...
Both my local dealers still have launch cars available and they'll discount. I predict current iterations of the 991 will be a huge flop in NA and as someone who has recently owned and follows Porsche stock I think the market is taking notice....
- The buttons in the center console - besides being too loud - are extremely "plasticy" and cheap. They remind me of the cheap plastic buttons in an Audi S5.
- The door interior has a strange layout that looks like it belongs more in a spaceship than a 911.
- Baby seat details are embossed on the rear leather seats... Really?
- No option for a Mezger motor in any 991's solely due to cost.
- Gaudy navigation screen prominently displayed in the center of the vehicle. Instead of making this unnecessary (to many of us) piece of crap free - how about giving us full leather for free in our 100k car...
- Hideous rear license plate holder design on USA version that looks substantially better in Europe as it actually matches the body lines
- only a 20hp bump in base model from 2005-2012 which has not kept up with competition; 45hp bump in "S" model is barely adequate
- Numerous investments made in fuel saving nonsense technologies such as engine start/stop instead of higher performance -- e.g. more HP
- No options for 19" wheels on the "S" cars-- not all of us want to ride on "dubs"
The 991 was not made for the former European/North American 911 owner. It was designed for conquest sales from BMW/Mercedes and the Asian market with Porsche hoping former 911 owners would simply fall in. As evidenced by the number of cars available on dealer lots - we're not...
Both my local dealers still have launch cars available and they'll discount. I predict current iterations of the 991 will be a huge flop in NA and as someone who has recently owned and follows Porsche stock I think the market is taking notice....
The truth is the 911 is a dying automobile. Porsche has time and again pulled of near miracles to keep the 911 at the cutting edge of performance. A rear engined car makes no sense, period. Porsche had to make drastic changes in the face of the Audi R8 and GTR both of which will near or demolish the 911 on performance depending on trim.
Asking for paradoxical things like an increase in performance (the carrera S equals the old GT3!!!) and then complaining it does not feel the same smacks of the sort fanboy crap you hear at a Star Trek convention.
I am not even going get into the truly ludicrous complaints.
04-10-2012, 01:22 PM
#113
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2005
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- The door doesn't have the same high quality feel it used to. Go close the door on a 2012 GTS and than a 2012 991 -- it's a night and day difference but I'll attribute it to weight savings making the 991 door feel "cheaper"...
- The buttons in the center console - besides being too loud - are extremely "plasticy" and cheap. They remind me of the cheap plastic buttons in an Audi S5.
- The door interior has a strange layout that looks like it belongs more in a spaceship than a 911.
- Baby seat details are embossed on the rear leather seats... Really?
- No option for a Mezger motor in any 991's solely due to cost.
- Gaudy navigation screen prominently displayed in the center of the vehicle. Instead of making this unnecessary (to many of us) piece of crap free - how about giving us full leather for free in our 100k car...
- Hideous rear license plate holder design on USA version that looks substantially better in Europe as it actually matches the body lines
- only a 20hp bump in base model from 2005-2012 which has not kept up with competition; 45hp bump in "S" model is barely adequate
- Numerous investments made in fuel saving nonsense technologies such as engine start/stop instead of higher performance -- e.g. more HP
- No options for 19" wheels on the "S" cars-- not all of us want to ride on "dubs"
The 991 was not made for the former European/North American 911 owner. It was designed for conquest sales from BMW/Mercedes and the Asian market with Porsche hoping former 911 owners would simply fall in. As evidenced by the number of cars available on dealer lots - we're not...
Both my local dealers still have launch cars available and they'll discount. I predict current iterations of the 991 will be a huge flop in NA and as someone who has recently owned and follows Porsche stock I think the market is taking notice....
- The buttons in the center console - besides being too loud - are extremely "plasticy" and cheap. They remind me of the cheap plastic buttons in an Audi S5.
- The door interior has a strange layout that looks like it belongs more in a spaceship than a 911.
- Baby seat details are embossed on the rear leather seats... Really?
- No option for a Mezger motor in any 991's solely due to cost.
- Gaudy navigation screen prominently displayed in the center of the vehicle. Instead of making this unnecessary (to many of us) piece of crap free - how about giving us full leather for free in our 100k car...
- Hideous rear license plate holder design on USA version that looks substantially better in Europe as it actually matches the body lines
- only a 20hp bump in base model from 2005-2012 which has not kept up with competition; 45hp bump in "S" model is barely adequate
- Numerous investments made in fuel saving nonsense technologies such as engine start/stop instead of higher performance -- e.g. more HP
- No options for 19" wheels on the "S" cars-- not all of us want to ride on "dubs"
The 991 was not made for the former European/North American 911 owner. It was designed for conquest sales from BMW/Mercedes and the Asian market with Porsche hoping former 911 owners would simply fall in. As evidenced by the number of cars available on dealer lots - we're not...
Both my local dealers still have launch cars available and they'll discount. I predict current iterations of the 991 will be a huge flop in NA and as someone who has recently owned and follows Porsche stock I think the market is taking notice....
You should just move along and whine elsewhere!
04-10-2012, 01:48 PM
#114
I have a 2010 997.2 and after the test drive ordered the 991. I will take delivery of my 991 soon. Since the 991 is the end of the 911 as we know if, I will happily sell any of you true 911 lovers my 2010 997 for sticker (since it is the last REAL 911). Ok, since you are true fans, Sticker minus 10k. Anyone?
Any takers?
Any takers?
04-10-2012, 02:06 PM
#115
Race Director
Wow, you either have serious issues with reading comprehension or you're in politics Giving you the benefit of the doubt it's the former, my point was that I am definitely not a hard-core purist when it comes to things like technology and creature comforts in a Porsche, yet even I find the 991 a step too far in numerous respects.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt it's the former, my point was that I am definitely not a hard-core purist when it comes to things like technology and creature comforts in a Porsche, yet even I find the 991 a step too far in numerous respects.
04-10-2012, 02:10 PM
#116
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Congratulations, Gleek48! I recently bought one and it's an amazing car. It has a beautiful interior and exterior, as well as amazing performance. In spite of all of this thread's comments, the car actually has very few flaws.
04-10-2012, 02:10 PM
#117
I'll take these one by one.
bull****. The doors close almost identically. You want a difference, close an aircooled door and then your 997s door.
wait, the buttons are loud now? As to the cheap buttons, what the hell do you think is in the 997? billet aluminum.
Its the same ****...deal with it.
spend much time in space ships?
The 911 has always been sold as the practical "supercar". Some people put their kids in it...you don't, who cares. Does this have even the most minor impact on your ownership experience.
yawn. Mezger was a great engine...so is the 9A1. Prove me wrong.
yawn...navigation is HIGHLY demanded by buyers, hence its there. Its placement is for safety reasons.
Why do you want full leather? I thought you had a race car
really? really?
Porsche has literally always been behind the competition in hp. Every single generation. how 45 addition bhp in a lighter car is barely adequate is unclear to me.
OMFG...not good gas mileage...who wants that. So ****ing what the car shuts off and restarts. I swear you guys complain about the stupidest crap.
I'll put $1000 on the fact that if you were on the track, you could barely make use of all the power you have now. If you want a more powerful car, buy a GT series.
You want smaller wheels, sell your dubs, and get some aftermarket ****.
I like how 19s are ok, but that extra inch just changes everything
wow, you base your entire statement on a car thats been out what? 2 months
Not to mention your worthless anecdotal evidence about discounts and dealer inventory.
ps., no one cares about your prediction...it isn't even worth the bandwidth you wasted to post it.
bull****. The doors close almost identically. You want a difference, close an aircooled door and then your 997s door.
wait, the buttons are loud now? As to the cheap buttons, what the hell do you think is in the 997? billet aluminum.
Its the same ****...deal with it.
spend much time in space ships?
The 911 has always been sold as the practical "supercar". Some people put their kids in it...you don't, who cares. Does this have even the most minor impact on your ownership experience.
yawn. Mezger was a great engine...so is the 9A1. Prove me wrong.
yawn...navigation is HIGHLY demanded by buyers, hence its there. Its placement is for safety reasons.
Why do you want full leather? I thought you had a race car
really? really?
Porsche has literally always been behind the competition in hp. Every single generation. how 45 addition bhp in a lighter car is barely adequate is unclear to me.
OMFG...not good gas mileage...who wants that. So ****ing what the car shuts off and restarts. I swear you guys complain about the stupidest crap.
I'll put $1000 on the fact that if you were on the track, you could barely make use of all the power you have now. If you want a more powerful car, buy a GT series.
You want smaller wheels, sell your dubs, and get some aftermarket ****.
I like how 19s are ok, but that extra inch just changes everything
wow, you base your entire statement on a car thats been out what? 2 months
Not to mention your worthless anecdotal evidence about discounts and dealer inventory.
ps., no one cares about your prediction...it isn't even worth the bandwidth you wasted to post it.
"yawn. Mezger was a great engine...so is the 9A1. Prove me wrong."
I don't have to prove anything - Porsche proved it by bringing it back for the RS 4.0 and utilizing it exclusively in racing 911's. Prove to me the 9a1 is as good as the Mezger and not a cheaper, more profitable alternative, without a true dry-sump system. I think the 9a1 is a good motor - I think the Mezger is one of the best motors ever made.
"I'll put $1000 on the fact that if you were on the track, you could barely make use of all the power you have now. If you want a more powerful car, buy a GT series."
Thanks! I'm actually in the market for one right now; one with a proper racing motor. I've driven over 200 laps on the actual Nurburgring now and hundreds more on Forza, not surprisingly I run better times with more powerful cars - I'll PM you my address to send the $1000.
P.S. An individual wanted people to get creative with their criticisms so I did
P.S.S. No one cares about your opinions - they weren't worth the bandwidth you wasted to post them
04-10-2012, 02:50 PM
#118
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You're kind of like Goldilocks; the classic 911 is too hot, and the 991 is too cold, but the 997 is just right. Nothing wrong with that, I guess, but just not what I expected from someone who pretends to understand so well Porsche's "very soul".
04-10-2012, 03:08 PM
#119
Rennlist Member
...The truth is the 911 is a dying automobile. Porsche has time and again pulled of near miracles to keep the 911 at the cutting edge of performance. A rear engined car makes no sense, period. Porsche had to make drastic changes in the face of the Audi R8 and GTR both of which will near or demolish the 911 on performance depending on trim...
Where the engine is located is what it's all about...that's the magic.
Sure, not everyone is prepared to be that involved in the driving experience, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
04-10-2012, 03:40 PM
#120
The truth is the 911 is a dying automobile. Porsche has time and again pulled of near miracles to keep the 911 at the cutting edge of performance. A rear engined car makes no sense, period. Porsche had to make drastic changes in the face of the Audi R8 and GTR both of which will near or demolish the 911 on performance depending on trim.
Asking for paradoxical things like an increase in performance (the carrera S equals the old GT3!!!) and then complaining it does not feel the same smacks of the sort fanboy crap you hear at a Star Trek convention.
I am not even going get into the truly ludicrous complaints.
Asking for paradoxical things like an increase in performance (the carrera S equals the old GT3!!!) and then complaining it does not feel the same smacks of the sort fanboy crap you hear at a Star Trek convention.
I am not even going get into the truly ludicrous complaints.