JasonNY

Pretty amazing performance numbers on this PDK model. Not sure what the $34k in options are.

Specs and Data

2012 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 vs. 2013 Nissan GT-R vs. 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S


"This is the best 911 ever, which means it’s less like a 911 than ever and now just a fabulous sports car that happens to have its engine in the trunk. A bad thing?

Judging from the heated banter on our online forum, this is a subject upon which reasonable people (plus a few whackjobs) may disagree. You can see where we land by the voting. Porsche has done what all car companies attempt to do with the overhaul of an icon: fix shortcomings while preserving the essence. In the case of the highly idiosyncratic 911, these goals are somewhat at loggerheads. But, as it often does, Porsche strikes an attractive balance.

It may look like the old Carrera, which in many ways looks like all of the 911s that precede it, but the new Carrera is more comfortable and significantly quieter inside, thanks to better isolation from tire rumble. It has none of that spooky steering slackness under acceleration, when load transfers off the already lightly burdened front tires. And it shows less of the nervous hopping through corners that makes older 911s such white-knuckle entertainment.

This new car is wired to its aluminum/steel gunwales with motherboards, from its electrically assisted, bump-filtering power steering to its electronic shocks aided by the electronically controlled hydraulic anti-roll system to its electronically activated Sound Symposer cabin megaphone. Yet the Carrera feels the purest and most tactile of this lot.

If the steering doesn’t bobble over rough patches as it once did, it does have a distinct mechanical hardness and an animated liveliness, accurately conveying the strain of tires holding a firm line. We’ve heaped scorn on electric-power-steering gears from other manufacturers. Perhaps the key is to have perfect steering to start with when you tune a new system.

The 3.8-liter flat-six returned the best fuel economy and a 0-to-60 time of 3.6 seconds, answering any prod with a rowdy burst of kinetic energy and the sound of  titanium-headed timpani we expect from a Porsche. It wasn’t fitted with the seven-speed manual, but the PDK switches gears with brevity and well-oiled efficiency. Still, we’d prefer the manual, and not just to save the additional $4080 for the PDK.

With the 991-series, the Carrera officially feels big, and it’s not just that the car no longer tippy-toes around on a truncated wheelbase as it once did. The windshield base moves forward about three inches at its center point, greatly deepening the dash. For old 911 hands, the visual effect is akin to what movie cinematographers call a “dolly zoom,” in which an object in focus (say, the steering wheel) stays fixed while everything else seems to pull away. Studded with buttons, the sloping center console distinctly recalls the much larger Panamera, as do the shared window switches (which are blank where the rear-window buttons would be).

If  it’s no longer as intimate, the new Carrera is certainly comfortable, the optional power buckets offering many adjustments to supply orthopedic support to taste. We just wish it weren’t so flipping expensive. With the options, many of which we consider essential to replicating our experience, this test car crowds the base price of the 2012-model 911 Turbo at $138,450.

Porsches have never been everyman affordable, and if someday they are, we’ll complain that the brand is soiled. Meanwhile, the new 911 S, six-figure tag notwithstanding, plugs in right where the old one once did, casting its golden glow on the enthusiast sweet spot."

LastMezger

Don't know why but the 991 just doesn't excite me yet...

10 GT3

Don't know if you caught the weight. Their PCCB equipped 991 S was barely any lighter than the iron rotor 997.2 S they tested in 09'. Without the expensive brake option, it would heavier than a comparable 997.2 S. Although the 991 won the test, I don't think it was a good showing. The only reason why it won was styling (it is the only car in the test that is a new design), fuel economy and NVH. Performance wise, it got slaughtered. They commented a couple of times about how ridiculous the price was: $131K and it doesn't even have an aero kit. That is $10K over the list on my 10' GT3 and the list on my GT3 included $1300 of gas guzzler (hippie) tax.

docfink

Considering its horsepower deficiency, it's amazing how the 991 performs. 3.6 seconds to 60?? That's unreal, folks--and it's not turbocharged, nor is it some 8 liter, 16 cylinder behemoth. It's also more refined than our cars. That's not necessarily a bad thing. The price is bordering on redonkulous, but you get what you pay for, usually.

Comparing my 997.1 to a friend's 997.2, I was underwhelmed and wouldn't consider upgrading, although the increased mileage is something I'd like. But the 991? Maybe when you guys let your's go off lease, I'll have to test drive it and decide!

rijowysock

good comparison, i was actually debating keeping my 991 order or going GTR..

gota911

Thanks for another "unbiased" assessment of the 991!

I have yet to read any positive comments from you on the 991. You obviously feel that your gt3 is threatened by an "ordinary" Carrera S.

Nizer

Not bad considering it was outgunned. The 991 GT3 will be the more appropriate comp here when it comes out. As for the weight, you need to strip out the extra technology not available on the 997 before you compare.

911dev

maybe so, but he does have some valid points.

in addition to the weight, the timed straight line run comparos are a bit skewed when you consider that the 991 has PDK, SC w/LC and PCCBs to lighten the load a tad. And, it costs over $10k more!

let us compare a manual 991S with iron against the same gt3. fair to say that the gt3 will walk away as the speed increases. yeah, these cars are not drag racers but it does matter.

Mike in CA

With regard to weight, you have to be sure you're comparing apples to apples. Some magazines use dry weight, some a half tank of fuel, others a full tank. I believe Porsche uses DIN measurments which mandates 1/2 tank of fuel IIRC. In any event, fuel load and equipment level can easily distort measured weight unless you are comparing base models weighed using the same criteria.

Also, why does the availability of PDK on the S "skew" the results? Just because it's not available on the GT3 (yet) doesn't invalidate the fact that it makes a 991 S as faster or faster than a GT3 in a straight line. Besides, another post in this forum reports that R&T tested a manual 991 S and got a 0-60 time of 3.7. Haven't seen too many GT3 tests where they did any better than that. And remember that a 991 S has virtually matched 997.2 GT3 times on the Nurburgring.....

triode

You can't have it both ways - either having PDK available for the 991S contributes to making it apparently approximately as fast around the 'Ring as a 997.2 GT3, or it doesn't. The 'Ring time you cite was using PDK in the 991S and stick in the '3, so given that PDK is universally acknowledged as being significantly faster (particularly over 7:40 runs on such a long track with so many shift points), in an "apples to apples" comparo the '3 will no doubt beat a stick 991S.

And 0-100/quarter-mile runs between the respective stick-equipped cars would be expected to result in discernible wins by the '3.

No doubt we will all find out soon. The new car is obviously a significant step forward in handling, but even if it is "as fast" as a 997.2 GT3, it's hard to imagine someone swapping the latter for the former - there is simply so much feedback specific to the GT3 experience, and that visceral experience is precisely what is desired by those who've opted for the '3.

Speaking only for myself, I would not buy a car without a stick, as it provides me the minimum level of interface which I crave with the machine. Perhaps neither car is "better" - just diverging yet targeted choices for widely varying enthusiasts. Something for everyone, as it were.

rodsky

Well put, although I'm in the opposite camp. I chose a PDK 997.2S over a GT3 (albeit 997.1 at the time) as i couldnt live with a GT3 as a DD. It had nothing to do with $ as they were basically the same price or close enough. I'd probably get really excited over a 991GT3 with a lift and PDK as i could live with it daily. However, if a base 991 C2S can run to $130K with ease, a Gt3 will be $150K+.
Given a choice between a $130K 991 and whats currently available, i'd strongly consider a 997.2GT3 but would need a DD too which i could buy with my $130K budget. Figure $95-100K for the Gt3 and $30-35K for a DD (Audi A3).

The N'ring times where the 991 C2S and 997.2GT3 being equal - are probably more to do with the 991's PDCC, PTV and longer wheelbase plus wider front end - than PDK (my amateurish guess).

No doubt PDK plus LC makes for an amazing 0-60 time. But I have used LC all of 3 times in over 14,000 miles - so who cares. But PDK does make for a fast 0-60 time.

rodsky

Were you expecting to be overwhelmed by a car that has 4 more HP than yours?

911dev

two words and and an acronym come to mind: launch control and PCCBs. I could go on, but I think someone else pointed out facts in an eloquent manner.

However, I will say that the 991S has matched the gt3 times at the Ring, but that was one lap.

Mike in CA

The effect of PCCB's lesser weight on straight line speed is negligible; less than the difference between a car with sport buckets like mine, and one with standard sport seats. LC does likely make a bigger difference. But all this loses sight of the bigger picture. The point is that the 991 S, despite it's alleged GT-ness, is for all intents and purposes as fast as the previous GT3, which no doubt annoys some folks. And the new 991 GT3 will be faster still. That's objective fact. Whether this floats anyone's subjective boat, is another matter.....

911dev

It's not that it annoys me that the car is as fast in some places as the .2 gt3, it is simply that some people believe it is as fast a car which weighs less. That is not the entire truth at least not without a disclaimer. Without PCCBs is is not lighter and without PDK and LC it is not faster. In fact even with these aids, the 991S is not as fast in every discipline, which truly reveals how fast the gt3 is. 0-100 and the gt3 is more than .4 seconds faster than the 991S even w/PDK and LC. Simple fact. Yes, with these aids the 991S runs at least one lap as fast as the gt3.

I am not concerned about how much time PCCBs may or may not shave off of any run, it is the fact that some tout the car's lightness relative to the gt3 when this 991 has PPCBs which saves 45 lbs. PCCBs certainly do not have less effect that what you saved in seats on your car. I will say I do find it humorous (this part is not directed at you Mike) when people go on and on about PAG shaving 88 lbs (or whatever) from the 991 as if it will change the handling dynamic of the car so much, but when faced with the 45 lb PCCB weight reduction in unsprung/rotating mass, PCCBs have little effect, in their opinion. Geez.. I thought I read somewhere how rotating/unsprung mass reduction is many times considered twice that when compared to static weight loss.

Relative to your GT car remark, a turbo is much faster and very nearly as close at the ring, but not nearly as much fun as a gt3. With that said, I'd likely vote 991S (optioned right) instead of the outgoing turbo, but not in place of my gt3.

End of the day I do not care at all for LC. Like others have said, Use it once, twice and then what's the point. Far too abusive on the drive train and it's not a drag car. PDK, well.. that's subjective. I don't care for it and my next gt3/RS won't have it, but I certainly will not discredit its capabilities.

0-60/62 is basically meaningless, imo. In-gear runs to 100 and beyond provide better data relative to HP.

The only part of my aforementioned post I would like to amend is calling PCCBs an acronym; user error.