C&D road test & comparison
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,149
Likes: 936
From: Manhattan Beach & Truckee, CA
Ha, that is laughable. Uninformed posts like this make me feel like I'm back on the m3post or NAGTROC forum.
The 991 is a street car whereas the gt3/RS is a street built car meant to handle track duty. Any way you slice it the GT cars will withstand track usage far better than the non-GT 991 ever will. Any car can have issues at the track, however, the 991 in non-GT form will have more. The brakes are not up to repeated track usage nor is the suspension to name just two items. This is simple fact.
The 991 is a street car whereas the gt3/RS is a street built car meant to handle track duty. Any way you slice it the GT cars will withstand track usage far better than the non-GT 991 ever will. Any car can have issues at the track, however, the 991 in non-GT form will have more. The brakes are not up to repeated track usage nor is the suspension to name just two items. This is simple fact.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,650
Likes: 8
From: Atlanta
I dont think his post was laughable or uninformed - he even said that the .1 or .2 GT3's were better track cars than Carrera's of any ilk. No one would deny that. He is simply buying a car that is fun for him on the street or on the track and that happens to be a 991. Most 911's can handle pretty good track duty. GT3's obviously better. But a 991 will last more than a lap - perhaps even so far as two.
After re-reading his post, you're right,. I read it wrong, my bad!!! I thought he said that he doubts the gt3 is superior to the 991 at the track.
Sorry, sorry, and sorry.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 240
Likes: 85
From: NY & FL
Salj- if my car is delivered by 3/24 I'll meet you there. I ordered a Stick car which will be built the first week of March so the dealer can't set a delivery date yet. Ordered in SWFL as well, maybe from the same place, enjoy your car.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 505
first point is subjective
second point pure speculation without an ounce of proof
third point, an admitted guess
A while back Porsche had a look and feel that stood out from the crowd. Wasn't necessarily the "best" at anything but making users smile. True enthusiasts owned them because of all that. It was quirky, hard to handle, but true believers got what they expected.
Now... might as well be a Jag or A-M. But for your $135K you better be prepared to be pistol-whipped in performance category and depend more on "exclusivity", whatever that's worth. I'm afraid that VW is now banking on cachet since it's lacking what made the marque great in the first place. It's not that much different from many other GT's. That's not necessarily a bad thing, just not what made it famous.
second point pure speculation without an ounce of proof
third point, an admitted guess
A while back Porsche had a look and feel that stood out from the crowd. Wasn't necessarily the "best" at anything but making users smile. True enthusiasts owned them because of all that. It was quirky, hard to handle, but true believers got what they expected.
Now... might as well be a Jag or A-M. But for your $135K you better be prepared to be pistol-whipped in performance category and depend more on "exclusivity", whatever that's worth. I'm afraid that VW is now banking on cachet since it's lacking what made the marque great in the first place. It's not that much different from many other GT's. That's not necessarily a bad thing, just not what made it famous.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Manhattan Beach & Truckee, CA
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Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,435
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From: Central New Jersey
all these "differences" are somewhat humorous.
First - they are irrelevant on the street. All recent P-cars have more than enough to defy the Laws of Physics and Man on the street. Throw in traffic...
Two- Salj, you'd better be a better driver than the guy in the 997 (or 993 for that matter) or you'll just be pointing by at slightly greater speed.
If I had a .2 GT-3 you will have a very hard time keeping up. And then, there is always a faster car. A Z-06 and a good driver will leave you for dead. All this stuff... the only winners are the manufacturers and the nonsense is kept up by the Rags.
At $130K it is overpriced... no doubt.
First - they are irrelevant on the street. All recent P-cars have more than enough to defy the Laws of Physics and Man on the street. Throw in traffic...
Two- Salj, you'd better be a better driver than the guy in the 997 (or 993 for that matter) or you'll just be pointing by at slightly greater speed.
If I had a .2 GT-3 you will have a very hard time keeping up. And then, there is always a faster car. A Z-06 and a good driver will leave you for dead. All this stuff... the only winners are the manufacturers and the nonsense is kept up by the Rags.
At $130K it is overpriced... no doubt.
0-60 times largely a product of LC w/PDK.
The electric nannies are off the charts on the test car. The only vehicle w/ more electric nannies was the space shuttle.
Read between the lines. It's a great performer w/ less driver needed. It's big, less "intimate" (read less like a sports car) and has left behind or damn near eliminated the characteristics that defined the 911 since day 1.
Porsche is targeting a new market ala' Jag, Aston, GTR..performance 2+2s.
Bad?no. Depends on what you want. It's a clear evolution.
I'd be wlling to bet 0-60 times are real close for 6spd 991 and 997s. I bet the Ring times are close too. I don't buy their 14sec claimed difference apples to apples.
If a well optioned 991 is now $130k can't wait to see what the GT3 will go for. Sheesh!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,123
Likes: 27
What's with all the 991 hate? Aren't we all 911 friends here? While I am amused by how C&D came to their conclusion, I'm never the less glad to see the Porsche 911 proclaimed the best. It's been a while. No doubt in a few years or less it will be leap frogged by something else.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 368
Likes: 4
From: Toronto, ON
911dev, I'm certainly not trying to minimize the GT3's capabilities. I just get the sense (and maybe I'm wrong) that some owners seem offended that the abilities of the new car are even talked about in the same sentence as the GT3. The bottom line, AFAIC, is that it's pretty impressive that the new run-of-the-mill mass audience 911, details about specific equipment aside, is damn near as fast as the previous generation factory track-oriented car. Whether it's someone's particular cup of tea because of LC, PDK, PCCB's, lack of MT or whatever, is kind of beside the point. That's still quite an accomplishment. And it makes me very curious to see what the forthcoming 991 GT3 will be capable of.
Both are amazing cars but if you are on public roads, not the track, why would anyone honestly care about this minutia? My 993 is 0-60 in 5.6 sec. and it's an absolute blast.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
This is always the case every time a new 911 comes along. It's just human nature. People don't like change and they get very emotionally attached to what they have so they take any threat to their own supremacy personally. I'm just glad they make all these wonderful cars so we can argue about these things.
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
I've had a 2006 Cayman S for the last six years and even though it's substantially slower than many of the performance cars on the market, I have never felt a sense of inadequacy. In fact, every time I hit the gas from a red light I notice that everyone one else is way behind me within a few seconds.
I recently ordered a 991 after looking very closely at the competition. For a daily driver, nothing can touch the 991 in its class. It's extremely fast, has an unbelievably sophisticated suspension and looks really, really good. The only downside is the cost. I briefly considered a GTR but it's a very capable, gas guzzling beast that weighs too much and isn't a good daily driver.
Am I afraid of getting the car in its first model year? No. My 2006 Cayman S was a first model year car. It has been the most reliable car I've ever owned.
I recently ordered a 991 after looking very closely at the competition. For a daily driver, nothing can touch the 991 in its class. It's extremely fast, has an unbelievably sophisticated suspension and looks really, really good. The only downside is the cost. I briefly considered a GTR but it's a very capable, gas guzzling beast that weighs too much and isn't a good daily driver.
Am I afraid of getting the car in its first model year? No. My 2006 Cayman S was a first model year car. It has been the most reliable car I've ever owned.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,945
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From: North Bay Area, CA
Besides, all of the 991's major mechanical components, with upgrades, are carryovers from the 997.2. There's nothing off-the-charts new there. Even the new 7 speed manual is just a deriviative of the proven PDK. A stretched wheelbase, new body panels and interior bits, PDCC (proven on the Cayenne and Panamera), even the electro-mechanical steering, are not likely to cause reliability headaches.
There may be other reasons why someone doesn't want a first year 991, but concern over reliability shouldn't be one of them.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 343
Likes: 21
Considering its horsepower deficiency, it's amazing how the 991 performs. 3.6 seconds to 60?? That's unreal, folks--and it's not turbocharged, nor is it some 8 liter, 16 cylinder behemoth. It's also more refined than our cars. That's not necessarily a bad thing. The price is bordering on redonkulous, but you get what you pay for, usually.
Comparing my 997.1 to a friend's 997.2, I was underwhelmed and wouldn't consider upgrading, although the increased mileage is something I'd like. But the 991? Maybe when you guys let your's go off lease, I'll have to test drive it and decide!
Comparing my 997.1 to a friend's 997.2, I was underwhelmed and wouldn't consider upgrading, although the increased mileage is something I'd like. But the 991? Maybe when you guys let your's go off lease, I'll have to test drive it and decide!