GTS turbo upgrade turbo lag?
11-13-2023, 08:06 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
GTS turbo upgrade turbo lag?
Thinking of upgrading my Base 17 that has a Softronic tune and Soul headers by adding GTS turbos. Wondering how much increase turbo lag will increase over my smaller stock turbos. I really don't feel much lag at all with base turbos.
Popular Reply
11-13-2023, 09:21 PM
It’s really subjective. What is lag vs what is labouring?
People claim n/a has INSTANT throttle response. Sure, if you are in the correct gear at higher than 5,000rpm you have instant throttle response. My car with GTS and M800 turbo’s also has instant throttle response at that rpm.
The problem lays in exaggeration leading to unrealistic expectations.
Journo’s say oh it has power everywhere. Thats an exaggeration. Now the average Joe gets in the GTS is in 5th gear at 2,000 rpm, floors the throttle and the car is labouring its butt off going no where and he exclaims Oh the turbo lag is horrendous. Wait a minute. Lets jump in the Instant throttle response GT3 at the same 5th gear at 2,000 rpm and jump on the pedal. Its the exact same labouring and going no where.
So let me put it like this. If you keep the revs up, like you drive an N/a, you have instant power like they claim, but way more! To sweeten it even more, you can be around 1,500rpm less than the n/a and still have instant throttle response. But what you can’t do is expect to be on the mind blowing boost, at rpm levels where your n/a would almost stall and also go no where.
With that in mind my car has never suffered from lag. I don’t labour around under 3,000rpm and then floor it expecting to be instantly on maximum boost.
Apply the same rules as you would apply to driving an N/a claiming instant throttle response and you will have something that will widen the smile, and cause panic in your passengers.
People claim n/a has INSTANT throttle response. Sure, if you are in the correct gear at higher than 5,000rpm you have instant throttle response. My car with GTS and M800 turbo’s also has instant throttle response at that rpm.
The problem lays in exaggeration leading to unrealistic expectations.
Journo’s say oh it has power everywhere. Thats an exaggeration. Now the average Joe gets in the GTS is in 5th gear at 2,000 rpm, floors the throttle and the car is labouring its butt off going no where and he exclaims Oh the turbo lag is horrendous. Wait a minute. Lets jump in the Instant throttle response GT3 at the same 5th gear at 2,000 rpm and jump on the pedal. Its the exact same labouring and going no where.
So let me put it like this. If you keep the revs up, like you drive an N/a, you have instant power like they claim, but way more! To sweeten it even more, you can be around 1,500rpm less than the n/a and still have instant throttle response. But what you can’t do is expect to be on the mind blowing boost, at rpm levels where your n/a would almost stall and also go no where.
With that in mind my car has never suffered from lag. I don’t labour around under 3,000rpm and then floor it expecting to be instantly on maximum boost.
Apply the same rules as you would apply to driving an N/a claiming instant throttle response and you will have something that will widen the smile, and cause panic in your passengers.
11-13-2023, 08:40 PM
#2
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
there will be an increase in turbo lag and transient throttle response. some will say it doesn't exist. some will say it's a lot. people can't seem to agree on how to quantify it.
if you don't feel lag now, it will more than likely be a very acceptable amount of lag for you.
if you don't feel lag now, it will more than likely be a very acceptable amount of lag for you.
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11-13-2023, 09:21 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Save some money. Get a stage 1 tune form Softronic, M Engineering, VF Engineering or APR on existing turbos.
replace the diverter valves to APR, get a high flow air filter, and a oil catch can, and SOUL high flow cats.
this will be plenty strong with 480hp at the rear wheels.
if you feel you need more hp later, you can always replace the turbos later if you think you need more.
replace the diverter valves to APR, get a high flow air filter, and a oil catch can, and SOUL high flow cats.
this will be plenty strong with 480hp at the rear wheels.
if you feel you need more hp later, you can always replace the turbos later if you think you need more.
11-13-2023, 09:21 PM
#4
It’s really subjective. What is lag vs what is labouring?
People claim n/a has INSTANT throttle response. Sure, if you are in the correct gear at higher than 5,000rpm you have instant throttle response. My car with GTS and M800 turbo’s also has instant throttle response at that rpm.
The problem lays in exaggeration leading to unrealistic expectations.
Journo’s say oh it has power everywhere. Thats an exaggeration. Now the average Joe gets in the GTS is in 5th gear at 2,000 rpm, floors the throttle and the car is labouring its butt off going no where and he exclaims Oh the turbo lag is horrendous. Wait a minute. Lets jump in the Instant throttle response GT3 at the same 5th gear at 2,000 rpm and jump on the pedal. Its the exact same labouring and going no where.
So let me put it like this. If you keep the revs up, like you drive an N/a, you have instant power like they claim, but way more! To sweeten it even more, you can be around 1,500rpm less than the n/a and still have instant throttle response. But what you can’t do is expect to be on the mind blowing boost, at rpm levels where your n/a would almost stall and also go no where.
With that in mind my car has never suffered from lag. I don’t labour around under 3,000rpm and then floor it expecting to be instantly on maximum boost.
Apply the same rules as you would apply to driving an N/a claiming instant throttle response and you will have something that will widen the smile, and cause panic in your passengers.
People claim n/a has INSTANT throttle response. Sure, if you are in the correct gear at higher than 5,000rpm you have instant throttle response. My car with GTS and M800 turbo’s also has instant throttle response at that rpm.
The problem lays in exaggeration leading to unrealistic expectations.
Journo’s say oh it has power everywhere. Thats an exaggeration. Now the average Joe gets in the GTS is in 5th gear at 2,000 rpm, floors the throttle and the car is labouring its butt off going no where and he exclaims Oh the turbo lag is horrendous. Wait a minute. Lets jump in the Instant throttle response GT3 at the same 5th gear at 2,000 rpm and jump on the pedal. Its the exact same labouring and going no where.
So let me put it like this. If you keep the revs up, like you drive an N/a, you have instant power like they claim, but way more! To sweeten it even more, you can be around 1,500rpm less than the n/a and still have instant throttle response. But what you can’t do is expect to be on the mind blowing boost, at rpm levels where your n/a would almost stall and also go no where.
With that in mind my car has never suffered from lag. I don’t labour around under 3,000rpm and then floor it expecting to be instantly on maximum boost.
Apply the same rules as you would apply to driving an N/a claiming instant throttle response and you will have something that will widen the smile, and cause panic in your passengers.
Last edited by 4 Point 0; 11-13-2023 at 09:26 PM.
11-13-2023, 09:28 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Not much additional lag, if any. It really depends on how sensitive your butt is. What you will feel is the additional push on your back. 
However, with your tune and headers you probably have GTS power already. I'd consider sport cats and a high flow air filter as your next steps to open things up.
However, with your tune and headers you probably have GTS power already. I'd consider sport cats and a high flow air filter as your next steps to open things up.
11-13-2023, 09:36 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Save some money. Get a stage 1 tune form Softronic, M Engineering, VF Engineering or APR on existing turbos.
replace the diverter valves to APR, get a high flow air filter, and a oil catch can, and SOUL high flow cats.
this will be plenty strong with 480hp at the rear wheels.
if you feel you need more hp later, you can always replace the turbos later if you think you need more.
replace the diverter valves to APR, get a high flow air filter, and a oil catch can, and SOUL high flow cats.
this will be plenty strong with 480hp at the rear wheels.
if you feel you need more hp later, you can always replace the turbos later if you think you need more.
Already have all that except for the cats. Am looking for a winter project.
Last edited by F355bob; 11-13-2023 at 09:39 PM.
11-13-2023, 09:41 PM
#7
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It’s really subjective. What is lag vs what is labouring?
People claim n/a has INSTANT throttle response. Sure, if you are in the correct gear at higher than 5,000rpm you have instant throttle response. My car with GTS and M800 turbo’s also has instant throttle response at that rpm.
The problem lays in exaggeration leading to unrealistic expectations.
Journo’s say oh it has power everywhere. Thats an exaggeration. Now the average Joe gets in the GTS is in 5th gear at 2,000 rpm, floors the throttle and the car is labouring its butt off going no where and he exclaims Oh the turbo lag is horrendous. Wait a minute. Lets jump in the Instant throttle response GT3 at the same 5th gear at 2,000 rpm and jump on the pedal. Its the exact same labouring and going no where.
So let me put it like this. If you keep the revs up, like you drive an N/a, you have instant power like they claim, but way more! To sweeten it even more, you can be around 1,500rpm less than the n/a and still have instant throttle response. But what you can’t do is expect to be on the mind blowing boost, at rpm levels where your n/a would almost stall and also go no where.
With that in mind my car has never suffered from lag. I don’t labour around under 3,000rpm and then floor it expecting to be instantly on maximum boost.
Apply the same rules as you would apply to driving an N/a claiming instant throttle response and you will have something that will widen the smile, and cause panic in your passengers.
People claim n/a has INSTANT throttle response. Sure, if you are in the correct gear at higher than 5,000rpm you have instant throttle response. My car with GTS and M800 turbo’s also has instant throttle response at that rpm.
The problem lays in exaggeration leading to unrealistic expectations.
Journo’s say oh it has power everywhere. Thats an exaggeration. Now the average Joe gets in the GTS is in 5th gear at 2,000 rpm, floors the throttle and the car is labouring its butt off going no where and he exclaims Oh the turbo lag is horrendous. Wait a minute. Lets jump in the Instant throttle response GT3 at the same 5th gear at 2,000 rpm and jump on the pedal. Its the exact same labouring and going no where.
So let me put it like this. If you keep the revs up, like you drive an N/a, you have instant power like they claim, but way more! To sweeten it even more, you can be around 1,500rpm less than the n/a and still have instant throttle response. But what you can’t do is expect to be on the mind blowing boost, at rpm levels where your n/a would almost stall and also go no where.
With that in mind my car has never suffered from lag. I don’t labour around under 3,000rpm and then floor it expecting to be instantly on maximum boost.
Apply the same rules as you would apply to driving an N/a claiming instant throttle response and you will have something that will widen the smile, and cause panic in your passengers.
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LawrieK (11-14-2023)
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11-14-2023, 07:34 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
Go for it!!
I don't think you will not be disappointed by the GTS turbos, just get a good tune that has a nice power band. N/A cars don't have instant power. Even super charged V8s (modded Corvette, F-Type SVR), that I have owned in the past didn't make real power until; 3k which is exactly when they turbos kick in.
Take a look at the M-Engineering platform when it goes live. My car is one of their test cars and the baseline tune I got from them last week for 93 and 103 octane is really nice. Super smooth and 3x the power of the Cobb OTS I had. Now can't wait for the map switching so you can switch maps without flashing.
Depending on your use case think about intercoolers these cars generate really high intake air temps and can heat soak pretty quickly.
I don't think you will not be disappointed by the GTS turbos, just get a good tune that has a nice power band. N/A cars don't have instant power. Even super charged V8s (modded Corvette, F-Type SVR), that I have owned in the past didn't make real power until; 3k which is exactly when they turbos kick in.
Take a look at the M-Engineering platform when it goes live. My car is one of their test cars and the baseline tune I got from them last week for 93 and 103 octane is really nice. Super smooth and 3x the power of the Cobb OTS I had. Now can't wait for the map switching so you can switch maps without flashing.
Depending on your use case think about intercoolers these cars generate really high intake air temps and can heat soak pretty quickly.
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4 Point 0 (11-15-2023)
11-14-2023, 09:04 AM
#10
It’s really subjective. What is lag vs what is labouring?
People claim n/a has INSTANT throttle response. Sure, if you are in the correct gear at higher than 5,000rpm you have instant throttle response. My car with GTS and M800 turbo’s also has instant throttle response at that rpm.
The problem lays in exaggeration leading to unrealistic expectations.
Journo’s say oh it has power everywhere. Thats an exaggeration. Now the average Joe gets in the GTS is in 5th gear at 2,000 rpm, floors the throttle and the car is labouring its butt off going no where and he exclaims Oh the turbo lag is horrendous. Wait a minute. Lets jump in the Instant throttle response GT3 at the same 5th gear at 2,000 rpm and jump on the pedal. Its the exact same labouring and going no where.
So let me put it like this. If you keep the revs up, like you drive an N/a, you have instant power like they claim, but way more! To sweeten it even more, you can be around 1,500rpm less than the n/a and still have instant throttle response. But what you can’t do is expect to be on the mind blowing boost, at rpm levels where your n/a would almost stall and also go no where.
With that in mind my car has never suffered from lag. I don’t labour around under 3,000rpm and then floor it expecting to be instantly on maximum boost.
Apply the same rules as you would apply to driving an N/a claiming instant throttle response and you will have something that will widen the smile, and cause panic in your passengers.
People claim n/a has INSTANT throttle response. Sure, if you are in the correct gear at higher than 5,000rpm you have instant throttle response. My car with GTS and M800 turbo’s also has instant throttle response at that rpm.
The problem lays in exaggeration leading to unrealistic expectations.
Journo’s say oh it has power everywhere. Thats an exaggeration. Now the average Joe gets in the GTS is in 5th gear at 2,000 rpm, floors the throttle and the car is labouring its butt off going no where and he exclaims Oh the turbo lag is horrendous. Wait a minute. Lets jump in the Instant throttle response GT3 at the same 5th gear at 2,000 rpm and jump on the pedal. Its the exact same labouring and going no where.
So let me put it like this. If you keep the revs up, like you drive an N/a, you have instant power like they claim, but way more! To sweeten it even more, you can be around 1,500rpm less than the n/a and still have instant throttle response. But what you can’t do is expect to be on the mind blowing boost, at rpm levels where your n/a would almost stall and also go no where.
With that in mind my car has never suffered from lag. I don’t labour around under 3,000rpm and then floor it expecting to be instantly on maximum boost.
Apply the same rules as you would apply to driving an N/a claiming instant throttle response and you will have something that will widen the smile, and cause panic in your passengers.
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4 Point 0 (11-15-2023)
11-14-2023, 03:32 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
the sticking point is linear vs non-linear power delivery and it's a religious war now, not technical discussion. 
carry on.
carry on.
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11-14-2023, 03:49 PM
#12
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of N/a in the right circumstances. But if we racing, I want to win, and will choose turbo every time. If Enjoyment can be had without winning, then n/a is fine. The confusion is people can’t let go of the past. Examples, all auto’s are slugeamatics. PDK is just another auto.
Old school turbo had no power below 5,000 rpm. Then once you hit 5,000rpm, all hell broke loose and you were instantly at 7,000rpm. We affectionately remember these old beasts as 5, 7’s. Wait for it, wait for it, wait for it, Sweet Jesus! But even though our cars are not like that at all, some will still perceive that anything before that awesome push in the back as lag. Yet, if they drove beside you, you’d already be ahead, and then you leave them in the dust.
So some can bang on about linear power and lag, but its actually sane power and then insane power
Or more power than you and then a lot more power than you. Linear is better with spring rates, but who says linear is better with power? If you really analysed it, linear power would put you to sleep. It would be too slow, without a huge displacement.
11-14-2023, 08:45 PM
#13
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
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jfischet (11-15-2023)
11-20-2023, 08:34 PM
#14
So obviously true for any car! Thanks for highlighting this. Now exhaust note is another story though the GTS has air cooled sound that surprised me. I am thinking of adding a BMC air filter and exhaust to my GTS but concerned I will lost the air cooled sound for more turbo whooshing sounds. Thoughts?
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LawrieK (11-21-2023)
11-20-2023, 09:22 PM
#15
Three Wheelin'
So obviously true for any car! Thanks for highlighting this. Now exhaust note is another story though the GTS has air cooled sound that surprised me. I am thinking of adding a BMC air filter and exhaust to my GTS but concerned I will lost the air cooled sound for more turbo whooshing sounds. Thoughts?
