Great thread and idea. I'll be following.

 

Subscribed. About to install my Eephant Racing front camber plates and new alignment for track day this Saturday. I have the Blackmill wind buffet plates. You'll love them! I'm still on stock brakes with ME20 pads and SRF fluid. No brake problems for me yet (other than pads are noisy except on track and shortly after track. I think in addition to how fast you are around the track, the track itself matters quite a bit. At Sebring going into Turn 17, I would imagine you can hit 140-150 before heavy braking. At my home track (ORP in Oregon), 110 is about tops on the longest straightaway plus rest of track has no other long straightaway. I'm not saying bigger brakes aren't a good approach though...

 

I would hold off on the 3rd radiator.
I added the CSF 3rd, and swapped out the L/R to CSF. Reason was seeing 275 at Laguna Seca on a 95deg day. I still get into 270 when the air temps are 85+, though cool down laps bring the oil temp down quicker with the third.
Something to consider, the Carrera 3rd vents under the car (lift)

 

I have the full GT3 Front bar done properly underneath with all aero box etc. I also did PWR third radiator. I did a full custom adjustable 911-R underbody aero. I also have GT3-RS side skirts.

I want to do underbody strakes and canards next. I also love the font underbody tray from Verus, but they say. If you donMt run a swan nexk **** with it, it will destabilise the car. I find that difficult to believe. Cleaning up front aero , shouldn’t destabilise the rear.

Strakes

I also just got new wheels that increase track by an inch front and rear.


You shouldn’t be frightened about stick parts, but know you are going to lose! You will not be superior in your stock 911. Slightly modded M4’s will monster you. Then down the rabbit hole you go. 🤣
Its not just that, you burn through the stock equipment at an alarming rate. It costs a fortune. So you replace with stuff that is bigger, better and more robust. Having brand new OEM pads go to metal in 3 x 20 min sessions and grinding all the way home metal on metal for 150miles is not fun.

I’ll say it again, you can never have enough brakes.

 

Huh.... curious. What was the affect on peak oil temps?

 

Praise the lord!!

Thank you for sharing the underbody pic, that is a beautiful build!! That is the best looking car **** that I've seen in a while.

 

I LOVE this brake package. So much so that we are now a dealer for the product.

First and foremost, absolutely no issues with heat management on a 93 degree day. Repeatable stops every single time, no exceptions. Torque was a little lower than what I am use to and what I prefer, but they communicate extremely well and make trailing off the brakes easier. This last part is exciting, because as you get into top end of the performance spectrum, more time is actually found via brake release as opposed to late, threshold braking. Of course we want to do both, but most people master the late brake before the early brake release. I think the excellent feedback here will help a lot of drivers trail in, release early, and carry more speed through a corner. Can’t wait to get more seat time with this package and work on this myself!

Track conditions were poor. Lots of rain the previous days washed away the rubber and gave us a very green surface. Additionally, it started hot and got hotter very quickly. The morning session was already over 80 degrees and by the third session it was into the 90’s, so a progressively worse track as the day progressed. I went to the track with a customer so that we could have some comparison points as well. He is a very good driver (instructor level), driving a base 992 with upgraded turbos and a mild tune (more power than me), and a mild brake upgrade consisting only of 350mm floating rotors and race pads. Here is the blow by blow:

Session 1: Lots of acceleration/hard stops to warm up and continue to bed in rotors. By the end of the first lap I could feel the brakes coming to me and as mentioned earlier, now had a hard pedal immediately upon application of the pedal now. From there I began my normal, cautious progression with a new car/new brakes to find the right braking points, getting shorter each time. Got faster by about 2 seconds a lap for a few laps, knocked off a couple of consistent laps, then pushed harder again for the last 2. Ended up with lap times maybe a little slower than the 981 GT4 given similar conditions. Very encouraging given that I wasn’t really pushing! Also recorded the top speed for the day (144.2 mph) since rising temps would continue to zap power as the day progressed. Wind buffeting was nearly completely gone, thank you Blackmill Performance!

Session 2: Best lap was about a second faster than previous best in the GT4! Let me say that again, this entry level-ish 911 beat the Cayman built by the GT department. With bad track conditions. Something about this chassis just agrees with me. I got in synch with the car, we both started grooving, and I knocked off 5 consecutive laps with a variance of just 0.12%. Lots of credit goes to the brakes which ALWAYS felt the same every time I touched the pedal and to the DSC controller which seemed to brush off the bumps at Sebring as one would blush lint off their shirt. Completely neutral handling with the mechanical grip on-hand, which clearly was camber limited. When a car feels this good you stop thinking about the equipment and just drive. Then the speed just materializes on its own.

Session 3: Sweltering heat so the track was probably about a full second slower than the morning session. Still lowered the best time of the day by another 0.8 seconds. The improvement this time came from me managing the power better. Most of my experience is in high rev’ing NA cars, so having power at 1900 rpms is a new experience. In session 2 I was still a little timid with throttle application, not knowing if street tires with limited camber would handle the rapid acceleration. In this session I got more trusting and playful. The data shows I still left some on the table, so can’t wait to go again!

Speaking of data, max deceleration at Homestead was -1.13 g. That was stock brakes with Endless ME20 pads. Max deceleration with the AP Racing/Ferodo set-up was -1.31 g. That’s a 16% improvement that you absolutely feel in the car and see on the time sheets.

Next up … data analysis versus the customer driven 992

 

White Line: 991.2 T, APR Stage 1 tune (est. 450hp), AP Racing brake kit, manual tranny (my car)

Blue Line: 992.1 Carrera, upgraded turbos and tune (>450hp), GiroDisc 350mm rotor and pad upgrade, PDK tranny (customer car; experienced instructor level driver)

This is a NON-SCIENTIFIC look (different cars, different drivers, etc.) that should not be taken in absolute terms, but instead simply a directional look at how our car/driver combos perform relative to one another. Both are our best laps on the day, with mine being 1.3 seconds quicker.

Speed Trace: I am braking later and shedding speed faster. In some corners we reach the same terminal speed, in others I seem to roll a little more speed. His rate acceleration is better than mine, and in some corners he also gets back on the throttle sooner than I do. My manual upshifts are evident versus his PDK upshifts.

Accel GForce: The bottom shows peak negative G’s under braking. I’m consistently better, with a best of -1.3g on this lap. His best was -1.25, but with a lot less consistency. Most corners peaked below -1.13g, which interestingly is what I saw on my car at Homestead with the base set-up. When we spoke, he confirmed that he had trouble putting together full laps at max braking and even more trouble trying to string together consecutive laps, much less a full session.

Corner GForce: Used in conjunction with the other graphs, this helps illustrate our different driving styles. I tend to brake and turn in later, utilize trail braking to rotate, and carry more corner speed. The 992 is squaring off the corner more and jumping back on the throttle before I am. What I like about this is, looking at his graph, is that I think I can do what I am doing AND jump on the throttle sooner like he is. That will make for a nice lap, so I have something to shoot for next time out.

In sum, a great day that really validated how good this brake package is. As mentioned, I was impressed enough to set the shop up as dealer and we will be equipping the customer’s 992 with the same package soon. Props out to AP Racing and the team at Essex, they were great to work with as we worked through the various options for our test mule!

As a final note, once back at the shop we installed the DS2500 pads for the street. Did not have an opportunity to bed them in, so just drove. They worked great right out of the box. The pad material mated well to the racier compound, they grab at all temps and so far, are completely silent. 😊

 

Catch me if you can. 😆 Cool thread!

 

jakermc,
Thank you very much for the purchase, and for all the feedback, pics, and data. We look forward to working with you!

We find that most people don't really understand what they're missing with the factory brakes until they move to a proper aftermarket setup. Two of the words we see most often in reviews of our brake kits are confidence and consistency. When the brakes feel exactly the same on every lap of every session, all day long, that inspires tremendous confidence in the car. The result is that you can consistently refine your braking points and push harder lap after lap. It's very typical for our clients to drop a second or more from their personal best lap time the first time out after converting to one of our brake kits. We have lots of reviews on the Essex Blog stating exactly that.

Thanks again!

 

In addition to the known NVH issues (which our kits have none of with the pad tension kits), 405/380mm discs are ridiculously large sizes for your car and will severely limit wheel fitment. Our 372mm system will offer all the thermal mass you need while giving you plenty of breathing room in a huge variety of wheels (and tires). We have 1,000 HP C7 ZR1 Vettes (which are insanely brutal on front brakes) running our 372mm front Radi-CAL Competition Kits without issue. Here's a 700 wheel HP 991 Carrera T with our 372mm/365mm system...including video running 2 minute laps at VIR.

If weight reduction is a primary goal, our Competition Kits are going to be much, much lighter than the PFC system. Despite being considerably larger, our front CP9661 Competition Kits are about 7-8 lbs. lighter than the tiny OEM base brakes, and our rears are 6-7 lbs. lighter.

Also, changing pads in our calipers doesn't require removal of the caliper, and the Radi-CALs are just as stiff as any one-piece conventional caliper.

If you want the best, our systems are as close as one can get to the AP Racing Radi-CAL systems on the Porsche factory 911 GT3 R racecars.

You can see all the options Essex offers for the 991 Carrera T here: https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicl...0T/Iron%20disc

Feel free to shoot me a pm if you have specific questions on our systems, and thank you for your consideration. For those who are wondering about our Radi-CAL Road Kits (like what jakermc is highlighting in this thread) vs. our Competition Kits, we have an article on that topic: Which Type of AP Racing by Essex Brake Kit is Right for Me?

As you can see in this thread, both types of systems we offer have an array of benefits, and both are extremely capable on track. Which is right for you depends on your goals and how you plan to use your car. We have many Carrera Ts happily running both types of systems.

 

I love seeing the T treated right!
Count me as another AP fan! I have them on my Cayman R and my GT3. Awesome setup. They improved my lap times for sure.

 

THIS!!!

I considered both the racing kit and the road kit. Honestly, I'd rather have the smaller discs in the racing set-up as that's really all you need, anything above that is unneeded weight. I ultimately went with the road kit because a) this is primarily a street car so I wanted to minimize NVH issues, and b) the road kit would typically be a better set-up for our customers as well, and I wanted to test with the product we would most likely be recommending.

Being able to swap pads without removing the caliper is a big deal. You eliminate all that wear and tear on the hub and need to replace single use bolts. Think about how many people are adding caliper studs to avoid this issue, so you are eliminating that problem as well. 2 birds, one stone. And this feature led me to buy the different pad compounds, knowing it was easy to swap in and out after events.

This feature also leads to the next mod I'm making .... I'm going to try using the Vossen wheels on track and save the factory Sport Classics for the street. I don't want to beat up the factory wheels and the Vossens are 9 inches up front with a different offset, effectively increasing the front track. I want to see how that feels. So putting a new set of 4S tires on the factory wheels and moving the Sport Cup 2s to the Vossens for the next outing.

 

I happen to have the weights for a 380 Kit for your car, see below. That said, I normally don't recommend the 405 kit to anyone except for GT2RS customers, or some 3RS customers who are really hard on brakes and run brake-heavy tracks. Contrary to what has been said above, the PFC 380 kit clears most aftermarket 18" wheels with ease and will certainly clear most 19" wheels. The 405 kit even clears most 19" wheels. Regarding weights compared to the Essex kits, I have never weighed any of them, but I am guessing they are going to be within a few pounds of each other (Essex vs PFC) for comparable kits. The calipers weigh almost the same, and PFC discs tend to be some of the lightest on the market. The Essex/AP kits will be better suited for dual-use cars as they have more features tailored to that, (less noise, removable bridge for swapping to street compounds, etc.). The PFC kits are more intended for track/race use and are not concerned with weight.

Again, for a dual-use car, go with the Essex kit... If track only (or minimal street use/don't care about noise) I lean towards the PFC kits.

The weight of just the PFC rotors and calipers is 103.9 lbs.

For reference, OEM 991 GT3/RS, with comparatively sized 380/380mm steel discs:
Front caliper 9.30
Rear caliper 7.45
Front steel rotor 24.20
Rear steel rotor 23.95
Total 129.80 lbs


PFC 380.0002 Kit (For Carrera Models)


Hope this helps!

 

I run 19s or 20s and although its a Carrera S I'll be at 650HP with full Emotion/Tractive suspension so I need brakes as I've always been hard on brakes as I love to trail brake.

I believe at this time,I prefer Essex over PFC, but my dream setup is to update the calipers and use Surface Transforms.I drove a 3RS with STs and loved them! Plus its huge weight savings.

@Hinz Motorsport is there a way to use Surface Transforms discs with after market calipers? That is what I really want...