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Since retiring from competition I’ve had to reacclimate myself to the world of dual purpose tires, meaning, tires that can be driven on track but also get you there and back without a tire change. And they can also handle rain both on and off track. These tires generally fall into the general category of “200 Treadwear Tires” and have options available Michelin, Yokohama, Bridgestone, Nankang, Goodyear, Dunlop and others.
On my former 981 GT4 I had used both Bridgestone’s RE71 and Michelin’s SportCup 2 with success. With the Carrera T I have been exclusively on the Sport Cup2. Both are great tires, but both also carry a price point that can sometimes be hard to swallow. So with that in mind, I decided to test Nankang’s newest offering to see if they could compete with the name brands but at a lower price point.
First part of the test was the 2 ½ hour drive to Sebring the day before being on track. This would allow for some minor heat cycling before being on track and also give me a feel for the tire’s road manners. My overall impression was that the sidewall felt like it had a lower spring rate than the Michelin, causing a bit of bouncing with the DSC controlled PASM in Normal mode, which in and of itself is softer than the stock tune. I was not a fan of the ride, but not intolerable. But if you only had one set of wheels and intended to drive daily on this set-up, this could be a deal breaker for some.
Monday morning track conditions were dry with temps reaching the low 80’s by 10am. For comparison, my last run on Sport Cup 2s at Sebring had temps in the low 90’s, so favorable conditions relative to that run. Not knowing the correct pressures my car would like, I set cold pressures in the 25-26 range (each corner is a little different based on years of testing here) and set out on track.
The first three sessions all produced solid results, each recording a best lap about ½ second quicker than the Cup2s. Different days and conditions, but still promising. They react VERY differently to heat and pressure than the Cup2s, so I worked throughout the day to dial that in. In session 1, the front rose dramatically higher than the rear, something I’ve never seen before on any tire here. And it did so without the car pushing to cause it. Apparently, the narrower front reacted more to the heat than the wider rear. This was an overall theme – they are more sensitive to heat and pressure than a Cup2. More on that thought later. By session 4 I had a feel for the tires and knew that the tires liked a little lower pressure than the Cup2s. I made the adjustment and knocked another ½ second off the lap time from the earlier sessions despite the highest ambient temps of the day.
Day 2 had fantastic track conditions. The temperature at the start of the morning session was about 63 and the car IMMEDIATELY felt fast. The Turbos were in a happy place and the increased grip in the tires brought back memories of that magic level of grip you feel during a quali session on sticker tires. In my first hot lap of the session, I immediately bested my top time from the previous day by another 6/10 of a second. And did so in traffic, having to execute passes in T7 and T13. There was a lot more time left in this tire! Traffic did not allow me to bank anything better during the session, but sectors times showed there was a lot more on the table available. This brings me to the next observation – these tires are faster on Day 2 than Day1.
Session 2 had temps rise to 73 degrees, but still a very fast track. After warming things on my out lap I had clear track for Lap 1 and banged out the best time thus far – a 2:25.2. It was effortless and I felt I was just beginning to scratch the surface of the capabilities of the car and tires. Following that lap, I put my head down and consciously attempted to put down a flier. By T13 I was well ahead of the previous lap, a positive delta of about 7/10ths. But then, up in the distance, I saw a slower car that I was certain I was going to catch. And sure enough, I had to abandon the lap in T17 as he was sight seeing in T17 when I needed to turn in towards the apex. Thankfully, using the Garmin Catalyst, I was still able to see my Optimal Lap made up of Laps 1 & 2 – and it was a 2:23.7!! This is pretty damn quick for a street car on 200 treadwear tires and a camber-limited (nearly) stock suspension. Kudos to Nankang!
The following laps did not reach the previous peaks, leading to my final observation – this tire is peaky, it does not sustain its grip over longer sessions as well as Cup2s. I was still consistently banging out times faster than the Cup2, just not at “quali pace”.
Tire wear across the 6 sessions over two days was excellent. Mostly even across the tire, and no significant chunking. The inside of the front showed a little feathering on the innermost tread, a result of the open inner shoulder design, but nothing significant. Pics attached.
An additional note about the tire wear. This is what your tires should look like after beating on them. I constantly see people cording tires over the same run time and it’s the result of a poor alignment, bad pressures, overdriving the car, or all 3!! If you are experiencing that problem, seek out some help and get this dialed in. It will save you a ton of money.
So in conclusion, I am certainly a fan of this tire but with some reservations. It is absolutely faster than a Cup2 for a lap or 2, but can not run laps as consistently due to its sensitivity to heat and pressure. If I were time trialing, the Nankang would be my tire choice. But over 30 minutes, the Cup2 might be more satisfying even if you won’t equal the best lap times of the Nankang. I do think I’ll gain better consistency as I lock in on tire pressures a little more, but I think my conclusion will remain sound overall. That said, a tire that peaks a second or more faster and then falls back but still remains fairly comparable, at a price point a couple hundred dollars lower might be the right tire for you!
So my plan going forward? Utilize the Nankang during the cooler months when I have a shot at fast laps and a personal best. Over the hot Florida summers when lap times will be off anyway, I’ll use the Cup2. Threat of rain, probably Cup2 but I still need to test the Nankang in the rain.
Would love to hear the thoughts of others who have run these two tires against one another …..
I'm headed to Sebring this Friday and during the pre-track inspection we measured the front pads to check the wear on the 1.11 compound we are running. After 4 days the pads measured 6mm, down from 10mm when brand new. Wear on brake pads is non-linear and accelerates as they get thinner, so we will continue to keep on eye on this and begin to establish some baselines for expected pad life.
We had some cool weather this week in Florida and I took advantage of the favorable track conditions to visit Sebring again. This would be for heat cycles 7 through 10, and a test of targeted hot pressures of 32psi.
In sum, 32psi does to be the happy place for this tire. My last visit there said my theoretical best was 2:23.7, and I logged several laps there, lowering the theoretical best to 2:22.7. (My best logged laps included having to pass traffic). The cool air really helped on the power side as I hit 150mph on the back straight, something I haven’t done since I competed in the 430 Challenge. On the downside, mechanical grip was less than anticipated and the track surface itself was good, but not ideal. Some new/updated observations:
· The Nankang is fast and peaky, nothing changed here. The rhythm is out lap, fast lap1, faster lap 2, then they fall off. Still quick, but the magic lap was consistently on lap 2.
· At these lap times, the car is hitting it’s limit with the current set-up. The rears are rolling over a bit and I was fighting high speed and mid-speed oversteer. Turns 1, 13, 14, 16, and 17 required a fair amount of pitch and catch. The car requires a high level of confidence in your car control abilities to push towards these lap times.
· My physical driving condition is not what it used to be! I’m only doing 6-7 track days a year these days. During season, when I competed, I did that every month. Putting in some laps near the limit and fighting/managing oversteer took a lot out of me! The data even showed my heart rate maintaining a consistent aerobic level for about 4-5 laps, and then rising and spiking as the session went on. I still work out and in very good shape, but the work outs today are different then the driving specific training I use to do and it shows, big time. For those who committed to lowering lap times, my advice is to not forget about your own physical training. I promise you’ll gain lap time and consistency – and it’s free!
Next steps for the car are to address the oversteer I experienced. I remain committed to trying to keep the car stock (for now), so I will get the car back on the alignment rack and see if there is more negative camber available back there. I originally maxed out the front (-1.9) and matched the rear to it, so I never really tested how much more was available. Based on these last results I think the car will benefit from a change, if it’s available, and can handle it without introducing understeer.
Next steps for the car are to address the oversteer I experienced. I remain committed to trying to keep the car stock (for now), so I will get the car back on the alignment rack and see if there is more negative camber available back there. I originally maxed out the front (-1.9) and matched the rear to it, so I never really tested how much more was available. Based on these last results I think the car will benefit from a change, if it’s available, and can handle it without introducing understeer.
Will report back after she is racked again ….
To quote Wolf of Wallstreet, “Those are rookie numbers. You’ve got to pump thise numbers up.” 🤣
To quote Wolf of Wallstreet, “Those are rookie numbers. You’ve got to pump thise numbers up.” 🤣
4.0 RS skirts and camber
Yes sir, purposely so. I already know how to build a race car, done that plenty of times, but I am trying hard to resist temptation and stay true to the mission for this car. The goal is to find out how capable the car can be with minimal deviations from the stock hardware and while leaving the interior perfectly in tact. I want to explore how set-up and driving technique can overcome the big dollar builds (factory and modded) in an HPDE environment. The brakes were a massive Achilles heel, so that had to be addressed. But let's see what else we can do to ring out of the platform without changes!
I've got two things to chase at the moment. Seeing if there is more rear camber available, and then fine tuning the DSC controller with the help of @IRunalot
I'm getting very close to those limits now, so the temptation may grow after the next set of adjustments. But then I have to remind myself, if I want to go any faster I should just get a race car again. Since the brakes went on in June, this car has only been passed once by a car with a license plate (GT3, stripped down and with after market aero and Hoosiers), so it's plenty quick for the environments it's being run in. Beyond this I would want to be surrounded by a cage and competition licensed drivers. As I get older I become more and more risk averse. LOL
Curious about the side skirts - do you think there is a performance benefit there? They look great and stay within mission for this car, have you been able to tell if it helps on track?
Yes sir, purposely so. I already know how to build a race car, done that plenty of times, but I am trying hard to resist temptation and stay true to the mission for this car. The goal is to find out how capable the car can be with minimal deviations from the stock hardware and while leaving the interior perfectly in tact. I want to explore how set-up and driving technique can overcome the big dollar builds (factory and modded) in an HPDE environment. The brakes were a massive Achilles heel, so that had to be addressed. But let's see what else we can do to ring out of the platform without changes!
I've got two things to chase at the moment. Seeing if there is more rear camber available, and then fine tuning the DSC controller with the help of @IRunalot
I'm getting very close to those limits now, so the temptation may grow after the next set of adjustments. But then I have to remind myself, if I want to go any faster I should just get a race car again. Since the brakes went on in June, this car has only been passed once by a car with a license plate (GT3, stripped down and with after market aero and Hoosiers), so it's plenty quick for the environments it's being run in. Beyond this I would want to be surrounded by a cage and competition licensed drivers. As I get older I become more and more risk averse. LOL
Curious about the side skirts - do you think there is a performance benefit there? They look great and stay within mission for this car, have you been able to tell if it helps on track?
I don’t subscribe to the just get a race car. Its a completely different animal. Its the same when guys say, If I want to go fast, I just ride my bike. Chalk and cheese.
I drive my car on the street. I wish it were every day but I work for a living 🤣
I don’t change the setup. I drive to the track, do its thing, and drive home. Then drive out to dinner, in the exact same car, same setup. Same tyres, brakes, fluid, pads, alignment.
I wanted to build something that I enjoy everywhere. I hear people say, You can’t have one car that does it all. What they really mean is, you can’t nickel and dime a car if you want it to do it all.
I have MR spring rates and with the push of a button it passes the wife test. Push that button again and I’m in something that annoys GT2-RS at the track.
The side skirts do nothing at sane speed. They look epic. But there was one particular corner that got me all crossed up at 200km/hr once. Since adding GT3 front end, 911-R underbody aero and the RS side skirts, the car is far more stable through there. I know I need a massive wing to make this a track monster, but I have been avoiding that, as it is still a street car. The other things have helped.
@4 Point 0 It's not a drivability issue for me, it's one of safety. I know I could change the control arms, dial in camber, throw on Hoosiers and have this car lapping in the teens the very next day. But to go that fast, I would want the conditions that I am driving in to change. Specifically:
1) Car - I would want a full roll cage. That would immediately negate the car to track only status as you can not safely drive a car with a cage without a helmet. Full fire system as well.
2) Speed differential - For the HPDE's I am running, the speed differential versus the other cars would be too great for my comfort. At best it would be very difficult to get complete laps in without hitting traffic. At worse you catch the other drivers by surprise and bad things happen
3) Talent variation - Even in the Advanced run groups, there is a HUGE disparity in talent among the HPDE drivers. In a field of licensed competition drivers, the variation is much smaller. I would want to be able to trust the entire field around me, not just half of them.
4) Agreement on the rules - In a race field, there is (nearly) a complete understanding of how to engage each other in close quarters and with regard to passing. In an HPDE there SHOULD be that understanding. I completely dial back my driving for that environment. But some guys think HPDE is a race and will block you in corners, out drag you on the straights, and do other weird things that are against the intended nature of the event. It makes the environment frustrating, unpredictable, and ultimately unsafe.
I have a McLaren 12C in the garage and people have asked me why I don't track it. Answer is simple, it's too fast and there isn't even a provision for a Hans device to be worn. Not a risk I am willing to take.
So at some point I will hit my lap time limit with this car with regards to what I am willing to do with a dual purpose, street able car. There is no right or wrong about that, just a personal choice. Like I said, as I get older my risk threshold drops.
What was your driving specific training? Is there a good resource for this?
Resources: There are a couple of things to read, I have one book specifically dedicated to the topic (will see if I can find it and report on the title) and also there are sections of Ross Bentley's books that hit the topic. Other learnings came from various coaches and pro drivers I had opportunities to work with over the years. The biggest name being Patrick Long, who gave a good blow by blow of what Porsche boot camp is like for the factory drivers.
Training can be grouped in the following: Cardio, heat/stress tolerance, strength, brain/body coordination
Cardio - kind of obvious what this is, but I did A LOT more than I do now, both in frequency and duration. I tried to match my training to mimic race conditions, both in length and in heart rate. I knew my longest driving stints would be about 90 minutes, so I worked sessions into the routine that matched that. 90 minute runs were most common. Most the the workout would be at about 120 bpm heart rate, but I would also crank that up to 145-155 (and occasionally over 160) during the routine to simulate stress related spikes. So anaerobic intervals mixed into the aerobic workout. After the anaerobic event, I would practice bringing my heart rate back down as quickly as possible. (Breathing and mental control). These days I can't run due to some injuries, so I cycle instead. I need to do more! There is some fitness theory out there that says you only need to train to about 80% of your competition distance or length, but I think that is more for marathon training where it's a one off race. With auto racing we have to do it all season, and I also wanted the mental edge where I can say in my head "I've done this before". Lastly, I was a member of a race track that gave me access to the track almost every weekend. So seat time, double stints lasting about 60 minutes in total. 2-3 double stints in a day sometimes. In a very hot air cooled 911 with no power steering.
Heat/stress tolerance - This is VERY important. You must train your body to perform in the environment you'll be competing in. Living in TX, this meant afternoon runs when it was 100 degrees out, I actively sought the hottest conditions to train in. This became a huge advantage during summer enduros when I knew my competition would wither. Your body will be in physical distress when this happens, so we have to train our brains to remain calm and function in this environment. Great exercise - get on a treadmill and run about 30 minutes to get fully warmed up/a little tired. Now pick the track you'll be racing at next and begin to visualize your laps while continuing to run on the treadmill. Literally run through each corner, each gear change, each braking zone with the same cadence that you will experience in real life. Time your laps and see if you can visually/mentally drive a lap to the same lap time that you are targeting to accomplish in real life. You'll be creating a mental map for your body to follow, and you are doing it when your heart rate is elevated and your body is fatigued. This was the single best exercise I did. It created mental endurance and resistance to physical stress. You need this the last 10 minutes of your track session.
Strength - Big focus on core. Big focus on muscular endurance versus absolute strength. High reps for whatever you do. I began in that air cooled 911 with no power brakes and no power steering, it was very much a physical exercise every time and endurance was critical. Favorite exercise: Olympic plate in your hands with outstretched arms, turn it like a steering wheel (left, center, right, center, etc.) until complete muscular failure. Rest and do it again.
Brain/Body Coordination - Basically, we must warm up our brains before getting on track so that our reaction times are better. Ross Bentley does a great job teaching this stuff, so get his books and follow them. When I was competing I always did these exercises immediately before strapping into the car. Now I never do them. Now I am slower than I use to be. LOL
This is a huge topic, but hope this is a good enough overview to point you in the right direction.
09-21-2023, 06:28 PM
