When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Supporting data is not a single knucklehead's car. I am asking about how much development is actually done and what their technique of testing the durability of their tune is. I know what APR's is as Tyler's car is on video illustrating the 28+ sensors installed to monitor every key adjustment made. That's reassuring.
Your saying "trust me because I'm a weekend warrior" is not exactly hard data regarding how Protuners actually do their tunes.
I don't see your hard data. You can believe what ever you want. Enjoy your APR. No one died and made you king and all subjects must prove everything to you.
Do your own research. But stop making dumb comments about things that you know nothing about.
Your concern is longevity. APr tunes were two years after COBB minimum . I was doing 10 seconds runs on my CObB tuned car 2 years before APR released anything.
My car is almost 5 years old now, and will still out perform everything APR has. And there are many examples of COBB tuned cars doing so. Try reading more and demanding less.
Your saying "trust me because I'm a weekend warrior" is not exactly hard data regarding how Protuners actually do their tunes.
This is the statement that shows you have no clue what protuning is. It is not an off the shelf OTS, one size fits all tune. It is fully customised to your vehicle and your vehicle only.
It is hooked up to a dyno and a computer which reads everything and they start to make changes to improve what the client wants. You might want a car that has ridiculous fuel ecconomy, they can do that.
You might want more bottom end for dragging off at the lights. You may love greta and want the greenest tune. Or you may want the fastest thing possible. You may want longevity. What wvee your heart desires. It is fully customisable. I wanted a bullet proof track weapon.
It just happens to be one of the fastest around due to all the supporting mods. But I only tune on E40.
My Protuner advised for LONGEVITY don’t go full E85.
APR go full E85. Argued it was safe, and then never released the tune for hybrids and only much later released it for stock turbo's. So it seems Protuners know more than your 28 sensors.
At the end of the day, its a pointless arguement. A custom tune buy a reputable tuner can do anything you want, within your budget. But don’t try and make out APR is superior. It’s not. If it were, they would have released Tylers tune. Its APR that have over tweaked not COBB.
@AlexZTuned can chim in here , he have M-Engineering protune with e40 and ride his car hard and prooved his tuning is rock solid ..he do low 10sec @137mph+ pulls all day
I don't see your hard data. You can believe what ever you want. Enjoy your APR. No one died and made you king and all subjects must prove everything to you.
Do your own research. But stop making dumb comments about things that you know nothing about.
Your concern is longevity. APr tunes were two years after COBB minimum . I was doing 10 seconds runs on my CObB tuned car 2 years before APR released anything.
My car is almost 5 years old now, and will still out perform everything APR has. And there are many examples of COBB tuned cars doing so. Try reading more and demanding less.
My data is 5 years old. How old is yours?
Not interested in your anecdotes. What sort of testing does your tuner actually do? What data points are measured and from what measurement points on the engine. What sort of safeguards do they retain? How close are they to "the limit?" You haven't shown anything other than a "trust me, Bro!" That's the whole point...I don't. That's also why other folks don't trust buying modified cars either. I know tunes can add power, but every tune is different. I seriously doubt they are all well-vetted. You clearly don't know the answer to my question, so stop pretending that you do.
Cobb spent a fair amount of time on race tracks testing their calibration. I was there one of the times when they brought their test car out and competed in Superlap Battle at Circuit of the Americas. This was after they released their initial calibration. Prior to that, I know they spent time at Harris Hill, another Austin track during development. That was in the early days when Mitch was still there.
[QUOTE=mc3456;18231374]Not interested in your anecdotes. What sort of testing does your tuner actually do? What data points are measured and from what measurement points on the engine. What sort of safeguards do they retain? How close are they to "the limit?" You haven't shown anything other than a "trust me, Bro!" That's the whole point...I don't. That's also why other folks don't trust buying modified cars either. I know tunes can add power, but every tune is different. I seriously doubt they are all well-vetted. You clearly don't know the answer to my question, so stop pretending that you do.[/QUOTE
Your asking the wrong question, due to your lack of understanding.
The real question is Dyno tuning. COBB is just a platform to enable a Dyno tuner to have access to male changes.
Of course most companies have a Canned tune or OTS tune.
But your question is faulty . What testing does someone do on a fully customise as you go tune? Its a stupid question.
Perfect fuelling and timing is good for your car not bad.
what is bad is when a client pulls a number out of their butt and says I want XXX hp.
Most good tuners, say, they tune the car reliably well within limits and the power is where it is. If the client then wants to go outside of that, then there is a discussion and usually warnings against it.
I’ve tuned every car I have owned in the last 30 years. Multiple brands, multiple platforms. Never had an issue.
Its not about convincing you of anything. There are plenty examples of every tuning platform with a silly owner pushing to far and having issues, including APR across many platforms . But really that is on the owners of the car, not the platform. When you are given the keys to unlock doors, you have to take responsibility which ones you unlock. If you are nervous nelly and have no experience, then stay stock, or have a mild stage one off the shelf tune.
Not interested in your anecdotes. What sort of testing does your tuner actually do? What data points are measured and from what measurement points on the engine. What sort of safeguards do they retain? How close are they to "the limit?" You haven't shown anything other than a "trust me, Bro!" That's the whole point...I don't. That's also why other folks don't trust buying modified cars either. I know tunes can add power, but every tune is different. I seriously doubt they are all well-vetted. You clearly don't know the answer to my question, so stop pretending that you do.[/QUOTE
Your asking the wrong question, due to your lack of understanding.
The real question is Dyno tuning. COBB is just a platform to enable a Dyno tuner to have access to male changes.
Of course most companies have a Canned tune or OTS tune.
But your question is faulty . What testing does someone do on a fully customise as you go tune? Its a stupid question.
Perfect fuelling and timing is good for your car not bad.
what is bad is when a client pulls a number out of their butt and says I want XXX hp.
Most good tuners, say, they tune the car reliably well within limits and the power is where it is. If the client then wants to go outside of that, then there is a discussion and usually warnings against it.
I’ve tuned every car I have owned in the last 30 years. Multiple brands, multiple platforms. Never had an issue.
Its not about convincing you of anything. There are plenty examples of every tuning platform with a silly owner pushing to far and having issues, including APR across many platforms . But really that is on the owners of the car, not the platform. When you are given the keys to unlock doors, you have to take responsibility which ones you unlock. If you are nervous nelly and have no experience, then stay stock, or have a mild stage one off the shelf tune.
Arguing that APR tune is safer is ridiculous.
You are not answering my question, so stop trying to BS like you can. I've had tuned cars most of my life too, but that has nothing to do with what testing process Protuners utilize. Testing for power does not mean whatever mapping is done is safe/effective/efficient. What data do they actually collect, from what measurement points, etc. Really not that hard to either answer the actual question or admit that you don't know.
You are not answering my question, so stop trying to BS like you can. I've had tuned cars most of my life too, but that has nothing to do with what testing process Protuners utilize. Testing for power does not mean whatever mapping is done is safe/effective/efficient. What data do they actually collect, from what measurement points, etc. Really not that hard to either answer the actual question or admit that you don't know.
Dude you are a ******. None is the answer. NONE. Why would a custom tuner collect data? Its a one off custom tune.
You are confusing COBB with a Protuner. COBB collect data on their OTS tunes, but who cares?
Collect all the data you want. Once again a Protuner is there to perform a service of tuning. Not to collect information on one customers car, that has zero relevance of another customers car.
Has that answerd your trolling question NONE!
Every tune is built from scratch.
All of the factory safe guards are left in place. All of the safe guards APR list, are actually there from factory.
If you believe a canned APR, or anyone’s canned tune, is better than a full customised tune on the dyno, then I wish you good luck.
If Tylers 28 sensor safe tune was so reliable for longevity, why was it never released?
The reason i ditched APR because you cant datalog anything but cobb anable datalogging so you can monitor if your tune is working with your protuner that is powerfull ,btw APR i dont know if it pull down timing when its hot and either if you get bad fuel its like riding your car whithout knowing what is going with your tune...there is lots of apr blew engine out there just do à seach on google, heres an exemple from audi forum have fun
Hours after APR tune motor seized
Decided to join to let all know about my APR stage1 Tune and blown motor experience while car was still under warranty. Drove car hard for couple hours after tune. Car will limp and misfired. Had coil pack and sparks plug check and local shop. Towed car to shop to have Tune removed before going to audi service. While audi was troubling shooting motor completely seized. Complete motor was replaced under warranty. I had car for 2 years before tuning because of fear of flagging audi does. Not sure why car wasn't flagged, I am very grateful for that. But now I have completely new motor. Thinking about tuning again.....it cant happen twice right?
Dude you are a ******. None is the answer. NONE. Why would a custom tuner collect data? Its a one off custom tune.
You are confusing COBB with a Protuner. COBB collect data on their OTS tunes, but who cares?
Collect all the data you want. Once again a Protuner is there to perform a service of tuning. Not to collect information on one customers car, that has zero relevance of another customers car.
Has that answerd your trolling question NONE!
Every tune is built from scratch.
All of the factory safe guards are left in place. All of the safe guards APR list, are actually there from factory.
If you believe a canned APR, or anyone’s canned tune, is better than a full customised tune on the dyno, then I wish you good luck.
If Tylers 28 sensor safe tune was so reliable for longevity, why was it never released?
Agree with 4 point 0.
A dyno tuner will be able to monitor all of the sensors the car normally uses in addition to a wideband 02 sensor along with the Hp/Tq generated for each subsequent set of adjustments.
As for long term data collection this probably doesn't happen and isn't the question that @mc3456 is asking (but I am assuming).
I have a canned tune, but would go for a dyno tune if possible.
Dyno tuning is ultimately the best way, as long as it's on a load bearing dyno. Whether it's a custom in person dyno tune or a remote tune. I've usually had either dyno tunes or street tunes in the past with my other cars, but softronic will be fine for me this time. I see it as a good in-between
I have personally used many canned tunes on the Cayman race cars we built in years past (n/a 3.4 MA1 engine) as well as on a base 2.0T 4-cyl Macan. Never had any issues whatsoever with their canned tunes.
I had an APR tune in a previous Audi A4, I loved it, but that car was totally stock. I feel that an off the shelf tune is fine for cars that have the same mods as the original tuner. But if your mods are different, then a Dyno tune (aka: pro tune, although there are also e-tunes) is better.
@mc3456 Cars actually have a lot of data points from where to pull info. When you plug a tuning hardware into the OBD, the tuner has access to this data. I don’t have any experience with Cobb, but I have a Hondata Flashpro for my S2000. I have taken many datalogs and using a Hondata canned tune, I noticed that my car was running rich. After careful deliberation, I decided to take my car to a local tuner to get a Dyno tune. Here’s just some of the info that the tuner has at his disposal (this is from a Flashpro, but other tuning software will have similar info).
I told my tuner that I’m looking for 3 things, 1. Reliability, 2. Strong mid-range and 3. Drivability in the city. I also told him that I wasn’t looking for max power up top. The tune took many hours and many aspects were looked at or changed (ie. short term fuel, long term fuel, AFR, high cam, low cam, etc...). After the tune, my car is running much better, better AFR numbers, with a noticeable bump up in power in the mid-range and no engine knocks. So for me, a Dyno tune, although it Cost me a pretty penny, was worth it.
Even though this example is with a Honda, Porsche’s are no different. I’m sure APR, Cobb and all the other tuners look at the same set of data.
One thing I noticed in a lot of threads on tuning is that few people actually datalog their car. Perhaps because the tuning hardware/software does not allow for it, but imho, this is a pretty important part of tuning, to ensure your car is running well.
TL/DR: I think for a stock a car, a canned tune is fine (or if your car has the exact same mods as the canned tune); if your mods are different, then a dyno tune maybe safer/better for your car.
I agree if your car is bone stock, the shelf tune is the way to go. If you've made any major modifications, that tune goes out the window.
I know some tuners will lock out adaptation and do other things that will keep a CEL from coming on if there is a problem. For sure, you don't want one that does either of these.
07-04-2022, 04:57 PM
