VintageRacer477

LOL!
Bought a Camry new in 1987. Worst POS I could imagine. My old MGB was more reliable. Parts deteriorated, engine ran rough, f.i. went bad. (Took dealer a month to figure it out.) and it died and left us stranded 3-times. First & last Japanese car in our garage.

Don't remember the steering. If I did that would have been th eleast of my dislikes.

HenryPcar

Mine is a 997.2, the last of the hydraulic steering. Yes, I've driven my friend's 991 and have similar experience as yours.

Bemo

I'd love to read some factual technical analyses beyond what we "feel" with EPS vs HPAS systems. I fully realize that what I and others fee is not exactly objective nor am I a professional driver with a ton of experience/knowledge of the underlying factors.
I suppose it's one of those "perception is reality" situations.
Nonetheless my 2 HPAS BMWs "feel" much much better than the EPS in the Porsche, IMHO.
By a lot.
The lightness of the chassis and mechanical grip of the GTS however put it in an entirely different universe...no comparison whatsoever.
It's all about trade offs and tolerance levels for various aspects of each car.

VintageRacer477

PSP not noted on Build Sheet. It does have Premium Package Plus. I don't believe that PSP is part of that package.

This IS the first EPS car I've driven. And, the first car I've driven whose steering did NOT instill confidence since I drove a Yugo at Lime Rock one Test Day. Last Porsche I drove on-track was a 2006 Turbo at Watkins Glen at the media Intro.

Drove the "S" curve 118th St to I-275 south entrance ramp in Pinellas County, FL again today in the 991. I've done that in the E350 dozens of times and the 991 still feels numb in comparison to the HPS E350.

It IS a nice car for touring. I plan to AX it a few times, and perhaps do a DE. Maybe that will change my mind about the steering. Last PCA DE I did was in my Maserati GranTurismo. That car had a LOT more feedback. Of course, the howl of the Ferrari V-8 helped. (;-))

kuma1416

"As to improving the system, you are right in a previous post: It ain't gonna be easy. I'd have to research it to be definitive on this, but I seem to recall speaking with a Porsche engineer about the rack in the GT3 and/or GT4, and learning that it was either identical or nearly identical to the one in the 991.1 Carrera that everyone was moaning about, yet it felt much better. "So it's just software/calibration, then?" I asked. No was the answer. It's a lot of things...calibration but also hardware (control arms, bushings, tires, track, etc). Would be an interesting subject to throw at someone who actually understands feel—someone like Mike Levitas over at TPC. I wonder if he could analyze the differences and come up with tweaks for both the software and the hardware.[/QUOTE]

So maybe this is oversimplification, since I'm certainly not technically savvy, but why wouldn't Porsche just decrease the steering ratio (at lower speeds and off center) to make the steering feel tighter? I recently test drove a Giulia QF (I think it has a 11.8 steering ratio) and the responsiveness was absolutely surreal, almost like playing an arcade driving game. Still too light for me and lacking in road "feedback" , but IMO, it put my 991.2 4s to shame in terms of response, despite being a 4D sedan. Wouldn't this just be a software adjustment?

minthral

Porsche like most other brands now-a-days uses variable ratio steering racks, which is more sensitive on center (closer ratio). Speed doesn't matter and that would be weird if it did. I don't think anyone is complaining about responsiveness and how the car steers, but that there is little feedback...as in you can feel the tires rubbing the pavement. Its pretty obvious in the Alpha Romero 4C manual steering, but I hated it...so much feedback that steering wheel has a mind of its own and you're grabbing onto it for dear life.

PSP just boosts the amount of assist making the wheel easier to turn and less feedback. Without it, you get a nice hefty weight at low speed and a tight responsive feeling.

simplex

Let's be honest about it: 991.1's steering is awful.

Truly awful, like on a family sedan:

- Very slow rack (steering ratio).
- Has no feel.
- Overboosted.

stout

^ I seem to remember assigning a story about exactly this while at Panorama. Something down the road of "What is steering feel?" Had a lead pic of a yellow 914, iirc, and got pretty technical.

There is some subjective here—some people will be more sensitive to various aspects than others—but the jury seems to be in: The 991.1's steering system is not a high point. For those who whine about it too much, I encourage them to try a 964 with power steering and report back. What IS good about the 991.1 rack is that it is both super accurate and, at least to me, quick in response. The "numb" comment resonates with me...not necessarily with regards to the steering (which doesn't bother me as much as it bothers others) but a mild numbness to the overall handling...one made worse by PDCC, this despite its performance advantage. PSP is another influencer here. Always wondered what would happen with a 991.1 with an aggressive alignment. Still do.

You are exactly right about tradeoffs, and I do think some other manufacturers have done that better in this round of steering. The fact that the 986/996/987/997 were sooooooooo good for HPAS system feel only made it harder on the 991.1.

minthral

Ken Harding

My 991.1 I just picked up came with PSP as a option and it's currently at the dealer having the programming removed. They are only charging me 1 hour of labor so if for some crazy reason I miss it I can have them program it back in.

Chris C.

I just had mine done in SF Bay Area - initially they said no, then they came around a year or so later.

Makes a HUGE difference in "feel" and weight of the steering which is a weak spot on the car

Bob Z.

I selected PSP on my Targa GTS order and if I don't like it I can have it removed, as opposed to not having it and getting it added later. Besides, my way includes it on the build sheet, which someone may be concerned with in the distant future. When my car arrives in November I will report back with my impression of PSP. For what it is worth my first of several P-cars was a '87 930 so I am familiar with the differences in steering.

simplex

PM sent.

Valvefloat991

The biggest problem with most electric power steering systems is the lack of feedback from the front tires. The systems don't transmit the subtle variations in traction, road camber, and surface roughness the way that old manual steering systems did. The original 911s had a great deal--perhaps too much--of this feedback. In fact, the advice from 911 veterans was to not grip the wheel too tightly and let it wiggle a bit in your grip, particularly at high speed. I have a 1965 Jaguar E-type and it has such an unassisted rack-and-pinion. I think I would feel it if one of the front tires ran over a dime.

Much of this feedback went away with hydraulic power steering and most of it has been banished with electric power steering. I don't believe this is inherent in the EPS systems, but rather a notion by car manufacturers--even Porsche--the customers find too much feedback to be unrefined and distracting. That said, of the EPS systems ont he market, the hardware and calibration on the 991 is largely regarded as the best of the breed, because it still ahs some feedback--way more than any BMW for example. And the calibration is better on the 991.2, which I find satisfactory, even if the feel is not as good as on a 997.2 GT3.

This is another area, where some enterprising company could possibly develop a software tune, to change the steering feel so that it comes closer to the feel of the manual steering of the pre-964 models. It's no easy task because there are dozens of tuning parameters in EPS software and changes in one parameter tend to bleed into others so any such tuner would need to enlist a former Bosch EPS engineer. And, of course, the EPS software is undoubtedly heavily encrypted like the engine management system and every other computer system on the car.

But if such a tune were to come to market, I would love to try it.

Bob Z.

I would bet that most buyers of newer P-cars prefer EPS and that is who Porsche has decided to cater to.