991.2 COBB tune - Impressions and Dyno
#256
Heading to the dealer I would do a full deinstall ( so it does not get overwritten by the dealer if they do a flash update).
I havent used a battery tender, but I turn off the headlights and fans before starting and have a new battery.
Switching maps, I wouldnt worry, the main install is long enough to think about using a tender.
Last edited by arter; 08-25-2018 at 03:53 PM.
#257
Racer
Thread Starter
The AP install takes about 7 minutes, switching maps about 2.
Heading to the dealer I would do a full deinstall ( so it does get overwritten by the dealer if they do a flash update).
I havent used a battery tender, but I turn off the headlights and fans before starting and have a new battery.
Switching maps, I wouldnt worry, the main install is long enough to think about using a tender.
Heading to the dealer I would do a full deinstall ( so it does get overwritten by the dealer if they do a flash update).
I havent used a battery tender, but I turn off the headlights and fans before starting and have a new battery.
Switching maps, I wouldnt worry, the main install is long enough to think about using a tender.
I think when installing the AP will recopy the OEM maps (Map 0) to overwrite in any previous in case there was any update when they did most recent service.
#258
Note that the numbers are ENGINE (i.e. crank) torque and horsepower, not wheel hp. Notice on the stock run, it says 450hp which is spot on with stock engine spec of 450hp. The torque is higher than rated at about 420tq on the dyno vs. rated 405tq. Wonder if this is due to 93oct vs 91oct?
#259
I think it can do both. Buddy text me a couple pics from some dyno pulls on a Mustang. The little graph in the upper right shows wheel. Then the data outputs show wheel or engine power/torque. In the one that shows engine power of ~494hp, the little graph shows ~420whp. There's the button that says 'measure losses at end' which is likely how the dyno backs out engine/crank power. And of course, there's the button that says 'showing wheel values' or 'show engine values'.
#260
Rennlist Member
I think it can do both. Buddy text me a couple pics from some dyno pulls on a Mustang. The little graph in the upper right shows wheel. Then the data outputs show wheel or engine power/torque. In the one that shows engine power of ~494hp, the little graph shows ~420whp. There's the button that says 'measure losses at end' which is likely how the dyno backs out engine/crank power. And of course, there's the button that says 'showing wheel values' or 'show engine values'.
Are you confusing a Mustang dyno with dyno numbers from a Ford Mustang?
#261
I thought the baseline numbers "at the wheels" looked very high, too. I mean, doesn't 450 wheel hp at stock mean the thing would be running circa 500 crank hp out of the factory? SOOOOO, I asked the owner of the shop (who did the Cobb install, the dyno set up and dyno runs himself)...."are those numbers wheel or crank"? He said wheel. I asked him no less than 3 more times. Same answer -- "at the wheel." I asked if that really could be and could the cars be that far underated out of the factory. He thought was exactly it. Look -- I am certainly no expert on the Mustang dyno (and many, many other topics), but Chris who owns Growler Motor Labs and the dyno is. I'll pester him on the question again on Tuesday, but I'd be really surprised if a 20+ year veteran who owns his own tuning/racing shop is failing to recognize the difference between crank and wheel hp.
#262
The GTS is 450 at the crank measured with a MAHA dyno and a 12% correction factor.
Dynojets and mustang tend to measure in the 380 to 420 wheel range.
All of this is a correction factor game so just use the 450 to 500 increase as the meaningfull delta over stock.
Dont expect that your car stock was really 450 at the wheel unless it is a true freak
Dynojets and mustang tend to measure in the 380 to 420 wheel range.
All of this is a correction factor game so just use the 450 to 500 increase as the meaningfull delta over stock.
Dont expect that your car stock was really 450 at the wheel unless it is a true freak
#263
The GTS is 450 at the crank measured with a MAHA dyno and a 12% correction factor.
Dynojets and mustang tend to measure in the 380 to 420 wheel range.
All of this is a correction factor game so just use the 450 to 500 increase as the meaningfull delta over stock.
Dont expect that your car stock was really 450 at the wheel unless it is a true freak
Dynojets and mustang tend to measure in the 380 to 420 wheel range.
All of this is a correction factor game so just use the 450 to 500 increase as the meaningfull delta over stock.
Dont expect that your car stock was really 450 at the wheel unless it is a true freak
#264
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I've seen a couple datalogs where the ECU started pulling 3-7 degrees of timing which of course has a significant affect on torque/power. Would be good to also datalog ambient air temps, intake manifold temps, oil temps, and coolant temps to see that conditions are as even as possible.
Those Mustang dyno numbers are to the wheels, not crank.
For reference, with a stock GTS, Cobb put down 423 rwhp and 409 rwtq. With their tune, they put down 506 rwhp and 488 rwtq.
Gains of 83 HP to the wheels and 79 TQ to the wheels with a tune only.
Adding bolt-one like bypass pipes/sport cats, headers, and filter, I think we’ll be seeing increases of over 100 HP to the wheels on stock GTS turbos.
For reference, with a stock GTS, Cobb put down 423 rwhp and 409 rwtq. With their tune, they put down 506 rwhp and 488 rwtq.
Gains of 83 HP to the wheels and 79 TQ to the wheels with a tune only.
Adding bolt-one like bypass pipes/sport cats, headers, and filter, I think we’ll be seeing increases of over 100 HP to the wheels on stock GTS turbos.
Absolutely, no negatives, couldn't be happier. Like stock drivability with just massively more power.
I recently uninstalled the tune to bring it into the dealership and its borderline depressing driving the car around without the tune, its that noticeable.
I bought my car because I have a buddy with a 991.1 turbo that Ive always loved, he recently rode in the car and says it feels just as fast as his car. The turbos have more tq, but they also have 400lbs and AWD.
I recently uninstalled the tune to bring it into the dealership and its borderline depressing driving the car around without the tune, its that noticeable.
I bought my car because I have a buddy with a 991.1 turbo that Ive always loved, he recently rode in the car and says it feels just as fast as his car. The turbos have more tq, but they also have 400lbs and AWD.
The GTS is 450 at the crank measured with a MAHA dyno and a 12% correction factor.
Dynojets and mustang tend to measure in the 380 to 420 wheel range.
All of this is a correction factor game so just use the 450 to 500 increase as the meaningfull delta over stock.
Dont expect that your car stock was really 450 at the wheel unless it is a true freak
Dynojets and mustang tend to measure in the 380 to 420 wheel range.
All of this is a correction factor game so just use the 450 to 500 increase as the meaningfull delta over stock.
Dont expect that your car stock was really 450 at the wheel unless it is a true freak
Tell me about it! ????
Last edited by BGB Motorsports; 08-27-2018 at 12:52 PM.
#265
Racer
Thread Starter
I think that someone needs to do a dyno test of just the Sport Plus button alone because i think we will all be surprised. I was just trying to keep the peace but the reality is that once you're WOT, the pedal value is maxed and boost is what it is when you're on the dyno at wide open throttle. Sport Plus under partial load closes the wastegate so it spools up quicker AND it gives you more throttle blade angle while you're only partially into the accelerator. Once you're WOT, it is what it is as far as pedal value and boost go!
I think were seeing the throttle blade angle fluctuating slightly at WOT to attempt and control TQ and keep it below 520/530 from some data logs posted on ************.
#266
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Haha! From my understanding in addition to closed wastegates, in stock trim the max boost target increases with the sport and sport + setting.
I think were seeing the throttle blade angle fluctuating slightly at WOT to attempt and control TQ and keep it below 520/530 from some data logs posted on ************.
I think were seeing the throttle blade angle fluctuating slightly at WOT to attempt and control TQ and keep it below 520/530 from some data logs posted on ************.
#267
Racer
Thread Starter
From what I have read, the throttle sensitivity is a little less jumpy when going from Sport to Sport + because it assumes Sport + will be for track usage and a more linear throttle response is preferred, whereas Sport is just for street peppiness.
Sport Response is for quick bursts of aggressive acceleration, like the passing scenario they describe.
#268
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Nice info, thanks for posting. Is Sport + and Sport Response identical in function?
From what I have read, the throttle sensitivity is a little less jumpy when going from Sport to Sport + because it assumes Sport + will be for track usage and a more linear throttle response is preferred, whereas Sport is just for street peppiness.
Sport Response is for quick bursts of aggressive acceleration, like the passing scenario they describe.
From what I have read, the throttle sensitivity is a little less jumpy when going from Sport to Sport + because it assumes Sport + will be for track usage and a more linear throttle response is preferred, whereas Sport is just for street peppiness.
Sport Response is for quick bursts of aggressive acceleration, like the passing scenario they describe.
Your question about Sport vs. Sport Plus is interesting because i used to use Sport for the street and Sport Plus for the track because the throttle response in Sport was better but it was too aggressive on the street for Sport Plus. Now i'm hard pressed to notice a difference in the throttle response in a single gear in Sport vs Sport Plus but i could almost feel what you mentioned during the quick test drive it just did in 3rd gear between 2.5K and 3K RPM. The only way to truly know would be to log it with the Cobb and look at pedal position vs. throttle blade in both modes at a certain RPM with pedal position being the constant and then see how it ramps up.
They really did a nice job with the car with the trans programming this time around!
#269
Racer
Thread Starter
One of the things i love about the new car is how the PDK programming on the 991.2 has been improved. It's light years better than the 997.2 and still better than the 991.1 programming that not a lot of people liked. Every generation it has gotten better. Whereas before Sports Plus was too much for the street and something that could only be driven in manual mode, Sports Plus on this car doesnt do like it used to where it would hold the gear you're in all the way to redline and downshift on the street into a lower gear at 6K RPM. With this current generation software you can drive the car on the street in auto mode and if you crack the throttle slightly it will even upshift for you which would never happen in the previous car while in Sport Plus.
Your question about Sport vs. Sport Plus is interesting because i used to use Sport for the street and Sport Plus for the track because the throttle response in Sport was better but it was too aggressive on the street for Sport Plus. Now i'm hard pressed to notice a difference in the throttle response in a single gear in Sport vs Sport Plus but i could almost feel what you mentioned during the quick test drive it just did in 3rd gear between 2.5K and 3K RPM. The only way to truly know would be to log it with the Cobb and look at pedal position vs. throttle blade in both modes at a certain RPM with pedal position being the constant and then see how it ramps up.
They really did a nice job with the car with the trans programming this time around!
Your question about Sport vs. Sport Plus is interesting because i used to use Sport for the street and Sport Plus for the track because the throttle response in Sport was better but it was too aggressive on the street for Sport Plus. Now i'm hard pressed to notice a difference in the throttle response in a single gear in Sport vs Sport Plus but i could almost feel what you mentioned during the quick test drive it just did in 3rd gear between 2.5K and 3K RPM. The only way to truly know would be to log it with the Cobb and look at pedal position vs. throttle blade in both modes at a certain RPM with pedal position being the constant and then see how it ramps up.
They really did a nice job with the car with the trans programming this time around!
I couldn't be more pleased with how intuitive the PDK is with its responses
#270
Haha! From my understanding in addition to closed wastegates, in stock trim the max boost target increases with the sport and sport + setting.
I think were seeing the throttle blade angle fluctuating slightly at WOT to attempt and control TQ and keep it below 520/530 from some data logs posted on ************.
I think were seeing the throttle blade angle fluctuating slightly at WOT to attempt and control TQ and keep it below 520/530 from some data logs posted on ************.