991.2 COBB tune - Impressions and Dyno
08-16-2018, 09:19 PM
#196
Rennlist Member
You make some valid points, but other info is just incorrect.
Car 1: A GTS with a Cobb tune on it.
Car 2: A Carrera base, with Porsche Powerkit turbos for ~$6K (same as GTS), sport exhaust, and the very same Cobb tune.
Equal power delivery. Same engine, same turbos, same tune.
I think if you can provide documentation to demonstrate this, you will surprise many people. Engines are reported to be identical. The Porsche PET does not distinguish different pistons for different trim levels with the 3.0 turbo engine.
See above. Aftermarket turbos are one solution, but personally I think a base, Porsche OE Powerkit turbos, and cobb tune would be the sweet spot for me. Not aftermarket turbos.
Yup, if you blow up your engine on a base with powerkit turbos and a Cobb tune, a dealer isn't going to have much sympathy. And honestly if you blow up your GTS engine with the very same tune on it, the dealer isn't likely to be any more forgiving. You *might* be able to disingenuously deny mods on the Cobb GTS a bit more easily, but that's really not the point.
Any modification you do to a T or Base or S that is matched on the GTS, the GTS will prevail. Period. Tune the T/Base just to "match" the GTS.. Tune the GTS with the exact same software and again you'll be head of the T/Base's league.
Car 2: A Carrera base, with Porsche Powerkit turbos for ~$6K (same as GTS), sport exhaust, and the very same Cobb tune.
Equal power delivery. Same engine, same turbos, same tune.
S and GTS have different pistons.
The only way to outdo a GTS is to slap on larger/aftermarket turbos.
A SURE way to lose warranty...
Last edited by pfbz; 08-16-2018 at 11:18 PM.
08-16-2018, 10:05 PM
#197
T is 50 pounds lighter than the base model. A Gts is heavier than the base and the S.( remember your a wide body= more weight) So the weight difference is higher. add in all the unneeded factory luxuries like 18 thousand way adjustable Cadillac seats wrapped in 6 different kinds of leather super high tech cruise control, memory seats, heated and ventilation tech. high end stereo, sun roof, heavy glass, massive amounts of sound dreading materials. Additional wiring, switches and control modules to control all those coveted luxuries. The list goes on but I think I made my point. and the GTS just keep getting fatter. So the fact of the matter is they both have the same engine, they both have the same potential for the same upgrades to the same top end horsepower and torque numbers.
The differances are the T is lighter. The T is Cheaper And the T affords better performance options from the manufacturer. PLUS an this is a big PLUS. A GTS OWNER PAID A PREMIUM FOR THE TURBOS AND ECU TUNE ON THAT MODEL. Money wasted if you change them. On the other hand. T or base owner did not pay that initial premium SO can upgrade to equal performance at a drastically reduced cost. Economics 101.i just can’t rationalize paying Gts money for a car only to turn around and rip out the very thing I paid a premium to get. I know rite now that I will eventual tune and upgrade my base performance engine on the T I ordered so why on God’s green earth would I pay tens of thousands of dollars for basically turbos and a tune that I am gonna replace anyway.
The differances are the T is lighter. The T is Cheaper And the T affords better performance options from the manufacturer. PLUS an this is a big PLUS. A GTS OWNER PAID A PREMIUM FOR THE TURBOS AND ECU TUNE ON THAT MODEL. Money wasted if you change them. On the other hand. T or base owner did not pay that initial premium SO can upgrade to equal performance at a drastically reduced cost. Economics 101.i just can’t rationalize paying Gts money for a car only to turn around and rip out the very thing I paid a premium to get. I know rite now that I will eventual tune and upgrade my base performance engine on the T I ordered so why on God’s green earth would I pay tens of thousands of dollars for basically turbos and a tune that I am gonna replace anyway.
That’s awesome glad to here you got a great deal. I did mention my thoughts on the turbos and brakes. Please see below these metrics explain what I am referring to. I pulled this from a X51 power kit vendor website. The compression ratios, stroke and bore are the same across all the platforms. 100 hp gain from a stage 1 tune puts a 370hp base up to 470hp 20 over a stock gts.
With the 991.2 GTS model Porsche is taking their 3.0 liter flat-6 to a stated 450 horsepower and 405 lb-ft of torque. What the GTS includes is larger turbochargers and new tuning compared to the standard 911 Carrera and Carrera S.
9A2 3.0 991.2 Carrera
Horsepower: 370
Torque: 332 lb-ft
Boost Pressure: 13.1 psi
Bore x Stroke: 91mm x 76.4mm
Redline: 7500 rpm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Intercooler: Air to Air
Turbos: 49mm compressor/45mm turbine
9A2 3.0 991.2 Carrera S
Horsepower: 420
Torque: 369 lb-ft
Boost Pressure: 16.0 psi
Bore x Stroke: 91mm x 76.4mm
Redline: 7500 rpm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Intercooler: Air to Air
Turbos: 51mm compressor/45mm turbine
9A2 3.0 991.2 Carrera GTS
Horsepower: 450
Torque: 405 lb-ft
Boost Pressure: 18.0 psi
Bore x Stroke: 91mm x 76.4mm
Redline: 7500 rpm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Intercooler: Air to Air
Turbos: 55mm compressor/48mm turbine
Now, the engines are effectively all the same thing. Porsche is sharing parts and cutting costs. The only real difference is the turbocharger sizes, boost pressure, and tuning.
The Carrera and Carrera S only differ by 2mm in turbo compressor size. The GTS however has a 6mm larger compressor and 3mm larger turbine.
The difference on paper between the Carrera and S is supposed to be 50 horsepower:
With the 991.2 GTS model Porsche is taking their 3.0 liter flat-6 to a stated 450 horsepower and 405 lb-ft of torque. What the GTS includes is larger turbochargers and new tuning compared to the standard 911 Carrera and Carrera S.
9A2 3.0 991.2 Carrera
Horsepower: 370
Torque: 332 lb-ft
Boost Pressure: 13.1 psi
Bore x Stroke: 91mm x 76.4mm
Redline: 7500 rpm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Intercooler: Air to Air
Turbos: 49mm compressor/45mm turbine
9A2 3.0 991.2 Carrera S
Horsepower: 420
Torque: 369 lb-ft
Boost Pressure: 16.0 psi
Bore x Stroke: 91mm x 76.4mm
Redline: 7500 rpm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Intercooler: Air to Air
Turbos: 51mm compressor/45mm turbine
9A2 3.0 991.2 Carrera GTS
Horsepower: 450
Torque: 405 lb-ft
Boost Pressure: 18.0 psi
Bore x Stroke: 91mm x 76.4mm
Redline: 7500 rpm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Intercooler: Air to Air
Turbos: 55mm compressor/48mm turbine
Now, the engines are effectively all the same thing. Porsche is sharing parts and cutting costs. The only real difference is the turbocharger sizes, boost pressure, and tuning.
The Carrera and Carrera S only differ by 2mm in turbo compressor size. The GTS however has a 6mm larger compressor and 3mm larger turbine.
The difference on paper between the Carrera and S is supposed to be 50 horsepower:
At the end of the day you can nickel and dime your way to GTS power figures for a little less but I would do it right from the factory. Just my $.02
08-16-2018, 10:12 PM
#198
I cant stop laughing when I hear this Void the warranty nonsense.. Yes, I said its complete BULL--T and exaggerated ridiculously.
1. They have to know you had a tune which requires much more than a mechanic looking at a motor
2. The "warranty" extends to all parts of the vehicle, not just the engine.
So, if my front suspension fails, will I not have it covered under warranty because of a tune?
What about my struts? Or Gas tank? Or AC Compressor?
This is such nonsense I just had to comment. The "warranty" covers the entire vehicle, bumper to bumper.
Can a COBB tune void your warranty if you blow up the engine? Sure it can, assuming they know you had a tune and can attribute it to the tune.
Enough already with the voided warranty. You can probably count on one hand how many people have been denied warranty for a Tune on a Porsche and there have been tens of thousands of tunes done.
Be realistic with your fear mongering already.
1. They have to know you had a tune which requires much more than a mechanic looking at a motor
2. The "warranty" extends to all parts of the vehicle, not just the engine.
So, if my front suspension fails, will I not have it covered under warranty because of a tune?
What about my struts? Or Gas tank? Or AC Compressor?
This is such nonsense I just had to comment. The "warranty" covers the entire vehicle, bumper to bumper.
Can a COBB tune void your warranty if you blow up the engine? Sure it can, assuming they know you had a tune and can attribute it to the tune.
Enough already with the voided warranty. You can probably count on one hand how many people have been denied warranty for a Tune on a Porsche and there have been tens of thousands of tunes done.
Be realistic with your fear mongering already.
you are are the smartest one in the room. Thanks for sharing your wisdom.
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Bulldawgfan1000 (11-15-2021)
08-16-2018, 10:56 PM
#200
Racer
Thread Starter
08-16-2018, 11:02 PM
#201
RL Community Team
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Lots of small penises in this thread.
08-16-2018, 11:07 PM
#202
I have simply stated why some people buy 450hp, instead of tuning their car and I get lectured on warranty. So I thank the person.
No one in this forum has to put up with some one talking down to them.
I kept my comment short and sweat. Thank him for sharing his knowledge.
08-16-2018, 11:16 PM
#204
Racer
Thread Starter
Not trying to bust chops, I only try to appeal to rational parties to prevent this thread meant for sharing useful information from becoming yet another casualty of RL.
We're so far off from where this thread started.. its almost like why bother anymore. Maybe it should just be closed.
...I would say opinion though
We're so far off from where this thread started.. its almost like why bother anymore. Maybe it should just be closed.
...I would say opinion though
08-17-2018, 12:27 AM
#205
I could care less about the badge. In Fact I de-badged my GTS. What I wanted was a fat A$$. #Widebody. Also the GTS has 20 x 12 on rear. 305/30/20 Same as GT3. What does the T run?
Its not about who has more money at all, so don't go there. It's actually about who likes to spend on their sickness (Modding cars).
On one hand you have a GTS owner that happily spent more to get more. And there are plenty here with tons of top quality mods.
Then on the other hand you have a T owner that was penny pinching. (Again not about what they can afford, its about whta they DID)
So if you penny pinched on the Car, it doesn't matter what you COULD do, its what the majority do do. And that is nothing. They saved the money and they are unlikely to spend it chasing a GTS. Their primary goal was saving cost.
People who want to save, don't usually then spend up to catch up.
GTS owners were not looking for a bargain. They were looking for a great a package and were willing to shell out the extra to have it. They typically are ok with paying more and spending more on mods. Again, not about snobbery, or who has more, its about who doesn't have an issue spending more to get more. I know loads of tight wads, that can well and truely afford much higher models, but they prefer to buy the cheapest. Then they don't give back those savings wasting money on mods.
Whereas modding cars is my vice. I love doing it. I can't help myself. It doesn't matter how great something is, it can be improved upon. KAISEN - Contstant and never ending improvement.
Its not about who has more money at all, so don't go there. It's actually about who likes to spend on their sickness (Modding cars).
On one hand you have a GTS owner that happily spent more to get more. And there are plenty here with tons of top quality mods.
Then on the other hand you have a T owner that was penny pinching. (Again not about what they can afford, its about whta they DID)
So if you penny pinched on the Car, it doesn't matter what you COULD do, its what the majority do do. And that is nothing. They saved the money and they are unlikely to spend it chasing a GTS. Their primary goal was saving cost.
People who want to save, don't usually then spend up to catch up.
GTS owners were not looking for a bargain. They were looking for a great a package and were willing to shell out the extra to have it. They typically are ok with paying more and spending more on mods. Again, not about snobbery, or who has more, its about who doesn't have an issue spending more to get more. I know loads of tight wads, that can well and truely afford much higher models, but they prefer to buy the cheapest. Then they don't give back those savings wasting money on mods.
Whereas modding cars is my vice. I love doing it. I can't help myself. It doesn't matter how great something is, it can be improved upon. KAISEN - Contstant and never ending improvement.
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rico911 (09-28-2022)
08-17-2018, 12:41 AM
#206
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
08-17-2018, 12:48 AM
#207
I fully relate to the modding cars vice. However I do not agree with the penny pinching thing there is a huge difference between penny pinching and not wasting money. I am certainly not downing anyone for wanting a Porsche just because they are passionate about that particular Porsche. If for example that particular model is just the one that trips your trigger and that’s why you bought awesome. For me The T is that car.
My point is past models it would cost more to make a lower model equal to a higher model than it would to buy the higher model. With the 3.0 turbo cars that is not the case.
A buyer doesn’t have to spend GTS MONEY to get 450 hp on a car loaded with options that they don’t want. They can buy what ever model they want and flash the car and get gts horsepower and still have buckets of money left over to do other mods or keep in the wallet.
My point is past models it would cost more to make a lower model equal to a higher model than it would to buy the higher model. With the 3.0 turbo cars that is not the case.
A buyer doesn’t have to spend GTS MONEY to get 450 hp on a car loaded with options that they don’t want. They can buy what ever model they want and flash the car and get gts horsepower and still have buckets of money left over to do other mods or keep in the wallet.
08-17-2018, 01:10 AM
#208
I fully relate to the modding cars vice. However I do not agree with the penny pinching thing there is a huge difference between penny pinching and not wasting money. I am certainly not downing anyone for wanting a Porsche just because they are passionate about that particular Porsche. If for example that particular model is just the one that trips your trigger and that’s why you bought awesome. For me The T is that car.
My point is past models it would cost more to make a lower model equal to a higher model than it would to buy the higher model. With the 3.0 turbo cars that is not the case.
A buyer doesn’t have to spend GTS MONEY to get 450 hp on a car loaded with options that they don’t want. They can buy what ever model they want and flash the car and get gts horsepower and still have buckets of money left over to do other mods or keep in the wallet.
My point is past models it would cost more to make a lower model equal to a higher model than it would to buy the higher model. With the 3.0 turbo cars that is not the case.
A buyer doesn’t have to spend GTS MONEY to get 450 hp on a car loaded with options that they don’t want. They can buy what ever model they want and flash the car and get gts horsepower and still have buckets of money left over to do other mods or keep in the wallet.
08-17-2018, 11:30 AM
#209
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Everything i have read states that the motors are the same across all models with just tuning & turbos being the only difference. I pulled up the PET and confirmed this morning; motor internals are the same and turbos are the only difference. I could be wrong, i'm only human but according to the factory documentation AND the parts diagrams the motors are the same.
08-17-2018, 11:49 AM
#210
Racer
Thread Starter
Everything i have read states that the motors are the same across all models with just tuning & turbos being the only difference. I pulled up the PET and confirmed this morning; motor internals are the same and turbos are the only difference. I could be wrong, i'm only human but according to the factory documentation AND the parts diagrams the motors are the same.
