991.2 COBB tune - Impressions and Dyno
08-17-2018, 11:52 AM
#211
Every 911 has its own buyer.
We should not try to convince others that our choice is the best car.
9 months ago I was in a pleasant position to offered an allocation for a Carrera T, Carrera GTS (2C, 4C), Carera Base, GT3, Turbo (S).
All the options was offered with the same discount.
Based on my personal requirements because I plan to keep the car for many years and not flip it I went with GTS variant.
GT3 and Turbo (S) was out of my budget and interest.
GT3 because of lack or rear seats.
Turbo (S) because of AWD.
Even GTS was 10K more than my budget but I decided to pull the trigger.
Shortlisted was a Carrera T with GTS 2C.
Both cars optioned with minor additions to keep the price as low as possible but also close to GT cars configuration (without of course be a GT car).
Final quotation was that GTS was 15K more than Carrera T.
With 15K more I got wide body, center locks, bigger brakes, 70hp more from the factory, GTS model.
This is what I like to drive and that is what I chose. Someone else might choose T add COBB, Big Brake Kit and have a T with Turbo variant performance.
As I said every 911 has its own target group.
Enjoy your cars and drive safely. After my recent trip to Stuttgart and 1800 km driving in Alps with a 911 I realise that the more you drive these cars in curve roads the more you appreciate the philosophy and mentality of Porsche.
We should not try to convince others that our choice is the best car.
9 months ago I was in a pleasant position to offered an allocation for a Carrera T, Carrera GTS (2C, 4C), Carera Base, GT3, Turbo (S).
All the options was offered with the same discount.
Based on my personal requirements because I plan to keep the car for many years and not flip it I went with GTS variant.
GT3 and Turbo (S) was out of my budget and interest.
GT3 because of lack or rear seats.
Turbo (S) because of AWD.
Even GTS was 10K more than my budget but I decided to pull the trigger.
Shortlisted was a Carrera T with GTS 2C.
Both cars optioned with minor additions to keep the price as low as possible but also close to GT cars configuration (without of course be a GT car).
Final quotation was that GTS was 15K more than Carrera T.
With 15K more I got wide body, center locks, bigger brakes, 70hp more from the factory, GTS model.
This is what I like to drive and that is what I chose. Someone else might choose T add COBB, Big Brake Kit and have a T with Turbo variant performance.
As I said every 911 has its own target group.
Enjoy your cars and drive safely. After my recent trip to Stuttgart and 1800 km driving in Alps with a 911 I realise that the more you drive these cars in curve roads the more you appreciate the philosophy and mentality of Porsche.
08-17-2018, 12:03 PM
#212
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08-17-2018, 12:08 PM
#213
Racer
Thread Starter
I think that's just for tolerances; it's similar to how the bearings for the crank are color coated and when you R&R the crank the bearings need to be color matched for tolerance reasons. They might just offer a piston with a slightly difference tolerance. It's still the same for all 991.2 3.0L variants though because in the right hand column you would see the following: MDC.KA (Base) and then two types of MDC.HA engines that are for non-X51/GTS and X51/GTS cars.
08-17-2018, 04:00 PM
#214
9A2 103 930 00 is for just the set of pistons
9A2 103 930 50 is for pistons + rings + circlips
Internals are the same. Look again at the description of the parts illustration above. Note the "+" sign. There is clear distinction.
08-17-2018, 04:16 PM
#215
08-17-2018, 04:45 PM
#216
Sorry if I am misinformed about the pistons as I was just going off a video I watched on youtube and the different part numbers as I read on here before.
If you track a 911 with the black brake calipers at a much higher HP figure you'll definitely experience brake fade faster than the red/yellow calipers. IMO the X51 turbos are not worth it if you're upgrading from a Base/T since Porsche won't even install them for you and warranty. Might as well get the aftermarket turbos available from Tial (stronger than GTS/X51). I think in the long haul for tuners purchasing a new 911 the PCCB is the only way to go.
If you track a 911 with the black brake calipers at a much higher HP figure you'll definitely experience brake fade faster than the red/yellow calipers. IMO the X51 turbos are not worth it if you're upgrading from a Base/T since Porsche won't even install them for you and warranty. Might as well get the aftermarket turbos available from Tial (stronger than GTS/X51). I think in the long haul for tuners purchasing a new 911 the PCCB is the only way to go.
08-17-2018, 05:12 PM
#217
Rennlist Member
If you track a 911 with the black brake calipers at a much higher HP figure you'll definitely experience brake fade faster than the red/yellow calipers. IMO the X51 turbos are not worth it if you're upgrading from a Base/T since Porsche won't even install them for you and warranty. Might as well get the aftermarket turbos available from Tial (stronger than GTS/X51). I think in the long haul for tuners purchasing a new 911 the PCCB is the only way to go.
2. My guess is that with street tires (not R compound) and high temp fluid, the 4-pot brakes would not fade on the track unless there was some serious technique issues or you leave PSM on. And with a more track-appropriate brake pad selection, even with R compound tires. Brakes haven't been a weak point on 911's (even base models) for a very long time. Excellent components, easy upgrades if you need a bit more. Certainly NOT a reason IMHO to go S instead of base.
3. The X51 turbos (powerkit) regularly goes on sale from places like Suncoast for under $6K. Where are you finding matched/plug+play Tial turbos for that price? Couple that with the fact that you can leverage all the map work done on any S powerkit or GTS cars and I think the X51 turbos are the perfect sweet-spot for a budget 991.2 build.
But your right, no warranty.
Last edited by pfbz; 05-16-2019 at 05:23 AM.
08-17-2018, 05:31 PM
#218
08-17-2018, 05:40 PM
#219
Rennlist Member
Do they not us PCCB because they are not as good or they can't afford them?
Not an issue when a race team is footing the bill, and much less of an issue on Ferraris that are considered "high mileage" if they have more than 20K on them, but definitely an issue for a 911 owner that puts say 10K miles and half a dozen or more track days on their car.
But kind of beyond the scope of this discussion... Tons of opinions and advice on track PCCB usage over in the GT3 and competition forums.
08-17-2018, 06:10 PM
#220
PCCB's last about 20 track days or less, if you are an advanced driver ( the heat does them in). For street driving, they should last forever.
The newer ( non-porsche) surface treated ceramic rotors cost less and appear to be re-furbushable, but are still more costly than iron rotor systems.
The newer ( non-porsche) surface treated ceramic rotors cost less and appear to be re-furbushable, but are still more costly than iron rotor systems.
08-17-2018, 08:42 PM
#221
There is no issue, except his wrong thinking. I purchased the COBB tune. My ECU is back and I will load the tune on in the next couple of days. I already have the AMS Intercoolers fitted and IPD. I will have more power than a GT3. I am not of the belief that, "There will be a lot of ANGRY GT3 owners out there." I could have bought a GT3. I had allocation and cancelled it. It was the tuning opportunities of the turbo that won me over.
I have all the Elephant adjustable control arms, and the GT3 adjustable front and rear anti-sway bars. My car is closer to an RS than a GT3. Again, I could have bought an RS. But they are very limited in what you can do, and I prefer more of a sleeper. The wild wing on the street attracts too much of the wrong type of attention. I prefer to go unnoticed. Another reason I debadged my car. Its just another white Porsche, nothing to see here. Everyone makes their own choice. I doubt any one is angry because someone else saved some money. LOL
Better for your pocket. The PCCB work great. But if you track frequently, its going to hit you hard in the hip pocket. That's why people say steel is better for tracking. Because you can burn through at least 3 to one rotors and pads for equal cost. My issue was gravel pit. If you ever happen to venture into the gravel, kiss your PCCB good bye. They will chip and be ruined. That was enough for me not to get them. I most likely will upgrade to Brembo GTR 380. The nikel plating looks very cool, and I love brembo type 3 rotors.
Agreed. It seems counter intuitive that the PCCB are better for a daily. But that's how it is. They will last forever on the street and you don't have to put up with brake dust all the time. But at the track, you don't care. The car gets covered in rubber, so a little brake dust is nothing. It always takes me an hour to scrub all the rubber off my car after a track day, and I have PPF.
I have all the Elephant adjustable control arms, and the GT3 adjustable front and rear anti-sway bars. My car is closer to an RS than a GT3. Again, I could have bought an RS. But they are very limited in what you can do, and I prefer more of a sleeper. The wild wing on the street attracts too much of the wrong type of attention. I prefer to go unnoticed. Another reason I debadged my car. Its just another white Porsche, nothing to see here. Everyone makes their own choice. I doubt any one is angry because someone else saved some money. LOL
PCCB's last about 20 track days or less, if you are an advanced driver ( the heat does them in). For street driving, they should last forever.
The newer ( non-porsche) surface treated ceramic rotors cost less and appear to be re-furbushable, but are still more costly than iron rotor systems.
The newer ( non-porsche) surface treated ceramic rotors cost less and appear to be re-furbushable, but are still more costly than iron rotor systems.
08-17-2018, 09:23 PM
#222
There is no issue, except his wrong thinking. I purchased the COBB tune. My ECU is back and I will load the tune on in the next couple of days. I already have the AMS Intercoolers fitted and IPD. I will have more power than a GT3. I am not of the belief that, "There will be a lot of ANGRY GT3 owners out there." I could have bought a GT3. I had allocation and cancelled it. It was the tuning opportunities of the turbo that won me over.
I have all the Elephant adjustable control arms, and the GT3 adjustable front and rear anti-sway bars. My car is closer to an RS than a GT3. Again, I could have bought an RS. But they are very limited in what you can do, and I prefer more of a sleeper. The wild wing on the street attracts too much of the wrong type of attention. I prefer to go unnoticed. Another reason I debadged my car. Its just another white Porsche, nothing to see here. Everyone makes their own choice. I doubt any one is angry because someone else saved some money. LOL
Better for your pocket. The PCCB work great. But if you track frequently, its going to hit you hard in the hip pocket. That's why people say steel is better for tracking. Because you can burn through at least 3 to one rotors and pads for equal cost. My issue was gravel pit. If you ever happen to venture into the gravel, kiss your PCCB good bye. They will chip and be ruined. That was enough for me not to get them. I most likely will upgrade to Brembo GTR 380. The nikel plating looks very cool, and I love brembo type 3 rotors.
Agreed. It seems counter intuitive that the PCCB are better for a daily. But that's how it is. They will last forever on the street and you don't have to put up with brake dust all the time. But at the track, you don't care. The car gets covered in rubber, so a little brake dust is nothing. It always takes me an hour to scrub all the rubber off my car after a track day, and I have PPF.
I have all the Elephant adjustable control arms, and the GT3 adjustable front and rear anti-sway bars. My car is closer to an RS than a GT3. Again, I could have bought an RS. But they are very limited in what you can do, and I prefer more of a sleeper. The wild wing on the street attracts too much of the wrong type of attention. I prefer to go unnoticed. Another reason I debadged my car. Its just another white Porsche, nothing to see here. Everyone makes their own choice. I doubt any one is angry because someone else saved some money. LOL
Better for your pocket. The PCCB work great. But if you track frequently, its going to hit you hard in the hip pocket. That's why people say steel is better for tracking. Because you can burn through at least 3 to one rotors and pads for equal cost. My issue was gravel pit. If you ever happen to venture into the gravel, kiss your PCCB good bye. They will chip and be ruined. That was enough for me not to get them. I most likely will upgrade to Brembo GTR 380. The nikel plating looks very cool, and I love brembo type 3 rotors.
Agreed. It seems counter intuitive that the PCCB are better for a daily. But that's how it is. They will last forever on the street and you don't have to put up with brake dust all the time. But at the track, you don't care. The car gets covered in rubber, so a little brake dust is nothing. It always takes me an hour to scrub all the rubber off my car after a track day, and I have PPF.
08-20-2018, 05:45 PM
#224
nice!
08-21-2018, 10:45 AM
#225
Hello, long time lurker here and this will be my first post.
With all due respect;
Your logic is similar to that of Honda/Ricer mentality.. If I slap a turbo on my civic it will beat your corvette!.. So what happens when you slap a turbo onto the corvette?
The more you know!
With all due respect;
Your logic is similar to that of Honda/Ricer mentality.. If I slap a turbo on my civic it will beat your corvette!.. So what happens when you slap a turbo onto the corvette?
- Any modification you do to a T or Base or S that is matched on the GTS, the GTS will prevail. Period. Tune the T/Base just to "match" the GTS.. Tune the GTS with the exact same software and again you'll be head of the T/Base's league.
- S and GTS have different pistons.
- The only way to outdo a GTS is to slap on larger/aftermarket turbos which <0.5% of Carrera owners are doing. A SURE way to lose warranty whereas you might get lucky with a lenient dealer for a car with flash/mods on an otherwise stock vehicle.
- The T's lower weight is over rated and a marketing gimmick. 9 pound difference from stripped vs stripped T vs Base. Fully stripped on a T and you're talking no PCM/radio and The shorter gear ratios are what you should be arguing.. Even then, they will not help you but rather be a disadvantage when it comes to higher HP/TQ.
- Again, by your logic the best car to have would be the S because of the better brakes
- GTS owners are not only chasing the higher HP number. A GTS price with options is breathing down the neck of the 911 Turbo. There are plenty of 150-160k+ GTS builds out there. GTS comes with a myriad of other options that people lust after which aren't available on other models. It's not all about the HP/TQ or OMG RACECAR.
- GTS will hold value better and depreciate less.
- Traction issues will be more prevalent in a lighter car pushing 50%+ on power/torque. Especially with shorter gearing which will now be your enemy. Sometimes more weight is a benefit.
- The T caters towards the customer with less $ to spend. Nearly every Carrera owner in this section wants to be a GTS or match a GTS... Yes even the Carrera T guys. Nearly every GTS owner in this section wants to beat or match a 911 Turbo/GT3 which is doable.. Anything is doable. Do you want to put on aftermarket turbos + a bunch of other mods + software to beat a GTS and beyond? Go for it.. At that point your "light weight" car doesn't even matter.
- Base/S/T will never have dat ***.
The more you know!
"Base/S/T will never have dat ***."
My 4S with a power kit does....
