Nick Murray Porsche negotiation
Pro
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 593
Likes: 52
I only got 3% off my 2017 C2s, but I ordered it before they had hit the states as it was a new model. I think I ordered it in October 2015. Also it was my first Porsche. I don't have a huge drive to squeeze the best deal no matter what
Count me in as another buyer who also was interested in buying from a nearby dealership although I contacted other dealerships by email. I know for a fact I could have gotten a better deal from a dealership much farther away, but in the end I passed. The net financial effect of not getting the best discount on all the vehicles I have purchased is negligible, and more than offset by the fun of getting a vehicle I really wanted sooner rather than later. I paid MSRP for a KTM adventure motorcycle this spring and now I could could easily buy one for a couple thousand less, but I rode the bike all summer and loved it. I took delivery of the 911 in May or June 2016 and shortly after that my wife and I did a drive down the Oregon coast to visit our kids in northern California and that trip alone was worth way more than any extra discount I may have gotten. I also think there is a big psychological aspect to the approach to buying a car that varies from person to person. Some feel, often rightly so, that the dealer is trying to cheat them. Others that negotiating a car deal is "going to war". I dunno. If the "war" is coming out ahead financially, then I won that war a long time ago without ever firing a shot So to each his own. If you got a huge discount on you 911 purchase then more power to you!
Count me in as another buyer who also was interested in buying from a nearby dealership although I contacted other dealerships by email. I know for a fact I could have gotten a better deal from a dealership much farther away, but in the end I passed. The net financial effect of not getting the best discount on all the vehicles I have purchased is negligible, and more than offset by the fun of getting a vehicle I really wanted sooner rather than later. I paid MSRP for a KTM adventure motorcycle this spring and now I could could easily buy one for a couple thousand less, but I rode the bike all summer and loved it. I took delivery of the 911 in May or June 2016 and shortly after that my wife and I did a drive down the Oregon coast to visit our kids in northern California and that trip alone was worth way more than any extra discount I may have gotten. I also think there is a big psychological aspect to the approach to buying a car that varies from person to person. Some feel, often rightly so, that the dealer is trying to cheat them. Others that negotiating a car deal is "going to war". I dunno. If the "war" is coming out ahead financially, then I won that war a long time ago without ever firing a shot So to each his own. If you got a huge discount on you 911 purchase then more power to you!
Banned
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 642
Likes: 11
Highyo. I'm not gonna get into it about how all dealers are scummy legal con men. I'm on a mobile device. I'll keep it simple;
These guys ruin people's lives. Every dealer from A-Z. They lie, cheat, take your money and laugh at you in the back. You know it, I know it. I've met and known far too many innocent people whose lives have been negatively affected because of slimey dealers. They're super "friendly" and polite only to deceive you. Earn your trust just to flush you down the drain. I've worked at dealers and seen what happens behind the season. It's sickening. They prey upon innocent and sometimes naive people.
I got such a joy laughing at the guy on mute. I actually even stomped my legs at my desk in joy. He was clearly bothered. I know he was full of it when he said "let me make 400 bucks at least". We know he made a couple thousand at the least. Better than the 20k they made off you and others. The best part is it was the car built how I wanted to the T and a couple 600 dollar bonus features which spiced up the looks. Heck yes.
"Hey Nino I got this CPO 16 GTS! Perfect for you!" MSRP when new 140k... Asking $131k. LOL!!!!! Best part is he tells me they configured and sold the car new. They had already made at least $13k off this vehicle a little more than a year ago. Now they're selling it again because they got it back on trade at 131k. Trying to make another 10k minimum on it while praising it's build. You know they told the guy his options don't mean anything and GTS isn't rare upon trade. The man is attempting to take me for a fool **** him. Always glad to take food off his table and money out of their banks to keep it with me. Why am I not opening up my own Porsche store? Screw being a somebody.
I guess some people like getting greased up before the dealer sticks it in.
Go ahead, call me an A-hole. I'm more than willing to spend on leisure and taking out family/friends for a good time. No questions. Just put it on my tab... Dealerships on the other hand? No.
Some of you guys read far too deep between the lines. Just enjoy it for what it is an laugh. The war comment got people triggered. Lmao.
Happy New Year!
These guys ruin people's lives. Every dealer from A-Z. They lie, cheat, take your money and laugh at you in the back. You know it, I know it. I've met and known far too many innocent people whose lives have been negatively affected because of slimey dealers. They're super "friendly" and polite only to deceive you. Earn your trust just to flush you down the drain. I've worked at dealers and seen what happens behind the season. It's sickening. They prey upon innocent and sometimes naive people.
I got such a joy laughing at the guy on mute. I actually even stomped my legs at my desk in joy. He was clearly bothered. I know he was full of it when he said "let me make 400 bucks at least". We know he made a couple thousand at the least. Better than the 20k they made off you and others. The best part is it was the car built how I wanted to the T and a couple 600 dollar bonus features which spiced up the looks. Heck yes.
"Hey Nino I got this CPO 16 GTS! Perfect for you!" MSRP when new 140k... Asking $131k. LOL!!!!! Best part is he tells me they configured and sold the car new. They had already made at least $13k off this vehicle a little more than a year ago. Now they're selling it again because they got it back on trade at 131k. Trying to make another 10k minimum on it while praising it's build. You know they told the guy his options don't mean anything and GTS isn't rare upon trade. The man is attempting to take me for a fool **** him. Always glad to take food off his table and money out of their banks to keep it with me. Why am I not opening up my own Porsche store? Screw being a somebody.
I guess some people like getting greased up before the dealer sticks it in.
Go ahead, call me an A-hole. I'm more than willing to spend on leisure and taking out family/friends for a good time. No questions. Just put it on my tab... Dealerships on the other hand? No.
Some of you guys read far too deep between the lines. Just enjoy it for what it is an laugh. The war comment got people triggered. Lmao.
Happy New Year!
Pro
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 593
Likes: 52
Highyo. I'm not gonna get into it about how all dealers are scummy legal con men. I'm on a mobile device. I'll keep it simple;
These guys ruin people's lives. Every dealer from A-Z. They lie, cheat, take your money and laugh at you in the back. You know it, I know it. I've met and known far too many innocent people whose lives have been negatively affected because of slimey dealers. They're super "friendly" and polite only to deceive you. Earn your trust just to flush you down the drain. I've worked at dealers and seen what happens behind the season. It's sickening. They prey upon innocent and sometimes naive people.
I got such a joy laughing at the guy on mute. I actually even stomped my legs at my desk in joy. He was clearly bothered. I know he was full of it when he said "let me make 400 bucks at least". We know he made a couple thousand at the least. Better than the 20k they made off you and others. The best part is it was the car built how I wanted to the T and a couple 600 dollar bonus features which spiced up the looks. Heck yes.
"Hey Nino I got this CPO 16 GTS! Perfect for you!" MSRP when new 140k... Asking $131k. LOL!!!!! Best part is he tells me they configured and sold the car new. They had already made at least $13k off this vehicle a little more than a year ago. Now they're selling it again because they got it back on trade at 131k. Trying to make another 10k minimum on it while praising it's build. You know they told the guy his options don't mean anything and GTS isn't rare upon trade. The man is attempting to take me for a fool **** him. Always glad to take food off his table and money out of their banks to keep it with me. Why am I not opening up my own Porsche store? Screw being a somebody.
I guess some people like getting greased up before the dealer sticks it in.
Go ahead, call me an A-hole. I'm more than willing to spend on leisure and taking out family/friends for a good time. No questions. Just put it on my tab... Dealerships on the other hand? No.
Some of you guys read far too deep between the lines. Just enjoy it for what it is an laugh. The war comment got people triggered. Lmao.
Happy New Year!
These guys ruin people's lives. Every dealer from A-Z. They lie, cheat, take your money and laugh at you in the back. You know it, I know it. I've met and known far too many innocent people whose lives have been negatively affected because of slimey dealers. They're super "friendly" and polite only to deceive you. Earn your trust just to flush you down the drain. I've worked at dealers and seen what happens behind the season. It's sickening. They prey upon innocent and sometimes naive people.
I got such a joy laughing at the guy on mute. I actually even stomped my legs at my desk in joy. He was clearly bothered. I know he was full of it when he said "let me make 400 bucks at least". We know he made a couple thousand at the least. Better than the 20k they made off you and others. The best part is it was the car built how I wanted to the T and a couple 600 dollar bonus features which spiced up the looks. Heck yes.
"Hey Nino I got this CPO 16 GTS! Perfect for you!" MSRP when new 140k... Asking $131k. LOL!!!!! Best part is he tells me they configured and sold the car new. They had already made at least $13k off this vehicle a little more than a year ago. Now they're selling it again because they got it back on trade at 131k. Trying to make another 10k minimum on it while praising it's build. You know they told the guy his options don't mean anything and GTS isn't rare upon trade. The man is attempting to take me for a fool **** him. Always glad to take food off his table and money out of their banks to keep it with me. Why am I not opening up my own Porsche store? Screw being a somebody.
I guess some people like getting greased up before the dealer sticks it in.
Go ahead, call me an A-hole. I'm more than willing to spend on leisure and taking out family/friends for a good time. No questions. Just put it on my tab... Dealerships on the other hand? No.
Some of you guys read far too deep between the lines. Just enjoy it for what it is an laugh. The war comment got people triggered. Lmao.
Happy New Year!
happy new year all
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,008
Likes: 1,474
From: ^ The Bay Bridge
I dunno. There are stereotypes that apply to every profession, and then there are people who remind you why stereotypes are bunk. Bob Carlson was one when it came to PR men ("Write anything you want, just be sure you can back it up."). And, as I criticized various Porsches, our relationship only got stronger. He personified professionalism.
My dealer, Pete Laban, is another who does—selling me a GT4 at MSRP with no deposit. "How does that work?" I asked. "When your order approaches the lock date, I call you and we firm up the order. Do you want one of the first ones?" I wanted one of the last ones, as I hadn't planned on buying a new Porsche at the time, and he was true to his word. I paid MSRP, nothing more, nothing less. So when I went to pick up my 991.2, I didn't bother asking for a discount even though I knew they were out there to be had on the Carrera—because he treated me so well on the GT4. And I was pleasantly surprised by the discount offered without my asking. So there are two sides to the coin, and two ways to a relationship.
My dealer, Pete Laban, is another who does—selling me a GT4 at MSRP with no deposit. "How does that work?" I asked. "When your order approaches the lock date, I call you and we firm up the order. Do you want one of the first ones?" I wanted one of the last ones, as I hadn't planned on buying a new Porsche at the time, and he was true to his word. I paid MSRP, nothing more, nothing less. So when I went to pick up my 991.2, I didn't bother asking for a discount even though I knew they were out there to be had on the Carrera—because he treated me so well on the GT4. And I was pleasantly surprised by the discount offered without my asking. So there are two sides to the coin, and two ways to a relationship.
Pro
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 593
Likes: 52
I dunno. There are stereotypes that apply to every profession, and then there are people who remind you why stereotypes are bunk. Bob Carlson was one when it came to PR men ("Write anything you want, just be sure you can back it up."). And, as I criticized various Porsches, our relationship only got stronger. He personified professionalism.
My dealer, Pete Laban, is another who does—selling me a GT4 at MSRP with no deposit. "How does that work?" I asked. "When your order approaches the lock date, I call you and we firm up the order. Do you want one of the first ones?" I wanted one of the last ones, as I hadn't planned on buying a new Porsche at the time, and he was true to his word. I paid MSRP, nothing more, nothing less. So when I went to pick up my 991.2, I didn't bother asking for a discount even though I knew they were out there to be had on the Carrera—because he treated me so well on the GT4. And I was pleasantly surprised by the discount offered without my asking. So there are two sides to the coin, and two ways to a relationship.
My dealer, Pete Laban, is another who does—selling me a GT4 at MSRP with no deposit. "How does that work?" I asked. "When your order approaches the lock date, I call you and we firm up the order. Do you want one of the first ones?" I wanted one of the last ones, as I hadn't planned on buying a new Porsche at the time, and he was true to his word. I paid MSRP, nothing more, nothing less. So when I went to pick up my 991.2, I didn't bother asking for a discount even though I knew they were out there to be had on the Carrera—because he treated me so well on the GT4. And I was pleasantly surprised by the discount offered without my asking. So there are two sides to the coin, and two ways to a relationship.
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,785
Likes: 626
From: On the internet
I have some free time so here are some thoughts.
To begin with, I thought invoice was 10% off of the base price and 20% on options on a 911. (I am sure there are incentives and such too, but that is the baseline). I wish Nick’s spreadsheet had that function.
Take a 2017 C2S: $103,400 base price has $10,340 in profit. Add 30k in options, it has $16,340 in profit. 8% off the no option car, $2068 for the dealer. 8% off the high option car, $5668 in profit —2.5 times as much.
High option cars have more money in them and a higher profit percentage and you can get more off them. That is also why it is rare to see strippers on the lot.
DEALERS KNOW THIS AND ACT ACCORDINGLY, CUSTOMERS SEEM NOT TO KNOW AND DON’T.
Also, who did better? They guy who got 8% off a stripper or the guy who got 9% off the high option car? Dealer made more money on the latter.
One technique i have used is to negotate a profit for the dealer. $1000 over invoice on whatever I want and no dealer fees (for example), everything else at cost (if you want extras/financing etc.). I am the easiest customer, but far from the most profitable. I always pay cash, I never have a trade, I know exactly what I want, I never test drive, and I don’t buy extras. I had to go to great lengths to buy a GT3, but on everything else, I generally say what I am willing to pay, get it in an email, and then show up with a check.
Dont focus on “out the door” or especially payments, understand each fee and number and which are profit for the dealer and which are not (ie tags are fixed cost, but some dealers charge a doc fee which is more).
I used to really enjoy the game, pitting dealer against dealer, buying far away etc. With my job, I do a lot of negotiating, and I have found (1) take it or leave it, best and final is the way to go and (2) I despise the process of negotiating as it is distasteful. Now, I just figure out a fair price, call to get it, confirm with an email and return email (noting no dealer fees, VIN, etc etc very detailed) and show up with a check (or wire if they demand it). If I don’t buy it, oh well, I have enough cars already. Lol.
To begin with, I thought invoice was 10% off of the base price and 20% on options on a 911. (I am sure there are incentives and such too, but that is the baseline). I wish Nick’s spreadsheet had that function.
Take a 2017 C2S: $103,400 base price has $10,340 in profit. Add 30k in options, it has $16,340 in profit. 8% off the no option car, $2068 for the dealer. 8% off the high option car, $5668 in profit —2.5 times as much.
High option cars have more money in them and a higher profit percentage and you can get more off them. That is also why it is rare to see strippers on the lot.
DEALERS KNOW THIS AND ACT ACCORDINGLY, CUSTOMERS SEEM NOT TO KNOW AND DON’T.
Also, who did better? They guy who got 8% off a stripper or the guy who got 9% off the high option car? Dealer made more money on the latter.
One technique i have used is to negotate a profit for the dealer. $1000 over invoice on whatever I want and no dealer fees (for example), everything else at cost (if you want extras/financing etc.). I am the easiest customer, but far from the most profitable. I always pay cash, I never have a trade, I know exactly what I want, I never test drive, and I don’t buy extras. I had to go to great lengths to buy a GT3, but on everything else, I generally say what I am willing to pay, get it in an email, and then show up with a check.
Dont focus on “out the door” or especially payments, understand each fee and number and which are profit for the dealer and which are not (ie tags are fixed cost, but some dealers charge a doc fee which is more).
I used to really enjoy the game, pitting dealer against dealer, buying far away etc. With my job, I do a lot of negotiating, and I have found (1) take it or leave it, best and final is the way to go and (2) I despise the process of negotiating as it is distasteful. Now, I just figure out a fair price, call to get it, confirm with an email and return email (noting no dealer fees, VIN, etc etc very detailed) and show up with a check (or wire if they demand it). If I don’t buy it, oh well, I have enough cars already. Lol.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 252
Likes: 62
From: San Francisco
Precisely. I value my time a lot more than a few grand (and by definition, it's worth a lot more), and the "war" just isn't that much fun.
Track Day
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: texas
If you're worrying about how much the other guy is making, you're doing it wrong. Life is not a zero sum game
If dealers really are "scummy legal con men" why would you emulate their scummy behavior? Is that who you aspire to be? Even from a pure self-interest standpoint, last I checked, car salesmen typically don't earn a great deal of money
If dealers really are "scummy legal con men" why would you emulate their scummy behavior? Is that who you aspire to be? Even from a pure self-interest standpoint, last I checked, car salesmen typically don't earn a great deal of money
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 6,160
Likes: 3,482
From: New Orleans, LA (NOLA)
I don't normally comment on hate speech that periodically surfaces on rennlist but I couldn't let this one go. I personally know many Porsche dealers including their owners, sales associates, and service advisers. I also socialize with many of them outside of our business dealings. Your statement is just not true. I have found them to be honest and direct with me. Of course they are trying to make a living just like everyone commenting on this thread but your salacious characterization of them is just not accurate. I'm sorry you may have had a bad experience with some of your dealers in the past. It definitely has not been my experience by a long shot.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 178
Likes: 3
You have all the weapons, go to war. I just purchased a brand new '17 GTS. Sticker 150k MSRP. Got 10% off and purchased it at $135. I still feel like I overpaid but I'm very happy with the price. I had to shop nationwide for this deal but it was the color I wanted with all my must have options.I had dealerships asking me if I was crazy, flat out ignoring me, and a bunch of NO'S. Also had a couple smug salesman trying their best(WEAK) attempt at making a point. Just moved on.
I must admit I got sick and tired of looking at one point because it was consuming so much time, I'm just happy it all worked out. When I finally made this deal and wanted to push for those last few thousand dollars off I ended up ditching the salesman and called the sales manager directly. Told him I was really serious about the car and wouldn't waste his time by contacting him directly. Salesman held his ground at final price of $138,500. I told the sales manager my real no BS price was $134,750 and if he agreed I'd slap down a deposit right then and there on the phone. He got quiet for a long while, sighed loudly and said "Okay let me at least make 400 bucks on the car.. How about $135,800?". I told him to hang on a minute.. Put that **** on mute and wondered if I should continue to punish him... Giggled to myself I bit and decided I was happy with the price. Picked the phone back up and made my deposit.
Lived happily ever after.
I must admit I got sick and tired of looking at one point because it was consuming so much time, I'm just happy it all worked out. When I finally made this deal and wanted to push for those last few thousand dollars off I ended up ditching the salesman and called the sales manager directly. Told him I was really serious about the car and wouldn't waste his time by contacting him directly. Salesman held his ground at final price of $138,500. I told the sales manager my real no BS price was $134,750 and if he agreed I'd slap down a deposit right then and there on the phone. He got quiet for a long while, sighed loudly and said "Okay let me at least make 400 bucks on the car.. How about $135,800?". I told him to hang on a minute.. Put that **** on mute and wondered if I should continue to punish him... Giggled to myself I bit and decided I was happy with the price. Picked the phone back up and made my deposit.
Lived happily ever after.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,246
Likes: 89
From: SF Bay Area
I think we are witnessing a shift in how cars are sold to public. With so many brokers offering open deals at fair prices, emails distributed to quite a few dealerships for them to compete for our business and some brands even going with no dealers at all, we now can buy a car without even seeing a salesman for more than what a paperwork signing time is.
I can see and understand arguments on both sides - a sport of buying a car at a discounted price vs simple and quick deal w/o a need to spend time and effort for a few grand advantage. As usual it all depends on people on both sides. There are fair dealers (I am talking the decision makers at GM level) and not like anywhere else in the life. There are easy and difficult people on buyers side as anywhere else in the life. So we all benefit from the fact that process of buying a car becomes more and more straightforward and less and less "war".
Also I am sure many of us give more $$ to charities than we bargain off on a car deal anyways.
I can see and understand arguments on both sides - a sport of buying a car at a discounted price vs simple and quick deal w/o a need to spend time and effort for a few grand advantage. As usual it all depends on people on both sides. There are fair dealers (I am talking the decision makers at GM level) and not like anywhere else in the life. There are easy and difficult people on buyers side as anywhere else in the life. So we all benefit from the fact that process of buying a car becomes more and more straightforward and less and less "war".
Also I am sure many of us give more $$ to charities than we bargain off on a car deal anyways.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 122
Likes: 6
I have some free time so here are some thoughts.
To begin with, I thought invoice was 10% off of the base price and 20% on options on a 911. (I am sure there are incentives and such too, but that is the baseline). I wish Nick’s spreadsheet had that function.
Take a 2017 C2S: $103,400 base price has $10,340 in profit. Add 30k in options, it has $16,340 in profit. 8% off the no option car, $2068 for the dealer. 8% off the high option car, $5668 in profit —2.5 times as much.
High option cars have more money in them and a higher profit percentage and you can get more off them. That is also why it is rare to see strippers on the lot.
DEALERS KNOW THIS AND ACT ACCORDINGLY, CUSTOMERS SEEM NOT TO KNOW AND DON’T.
Also, who did better? They guy who got 8% off a stripper or the guy who got 9% off the high option car? Dealer made more money on the latter.
One technique i have used is to negotate a profit for the dealer. $1000 over invoice on whatever I want and no dealer fees (for example), everything else at cost (if you want extras/financing etc.). I am the easiest customer, but far from the most profitable. I always pay cash, I never have a trade, I know exactly what I want, I never test drive, and I don’t buy extras. I had to go to great lengths to buy a GT3, but on everything else, I generally say what I am willing to pay, get it in an email, and then show up with a check.
Dont focus on “out the door” or especially payments, understand each fee and number and which are profit for the dealer and which are not (ie tags are fixed cost, but some dealers charge a doc fee which is more).
I used to really enjoy the game, pitting dealer against dealer, buying far away etc. With my job, I do a lot of negotiating, and I have found (1) take it or leave it, best and final is the way to go and (2) I despise the process of negotiating as it is distasteful. Now, I just figure out a fair price, call to get it, confirm with an email and return email (noting no dealer fees, VIN, etc etc very detailed) and show up with a check (or wire if they demand it). If I don’t buy it, oh well, I have enough cars already. Lol.