do I really need winter tires?
12-13-2017, 10:54 AM
#46
Three Wheelin'
guys comparing summer performance tires from 30 years ago to today is night and day. the new sticky tires do not work well in cold temps. That being said it also depends on your experience in the cold and snow. I grew up driving all season and summer tires through lots of snow and learned how to drive in these conditions. That being said this is the first year in over 10 that I am going withmps th all seasons on a awd A4. But I don;t drive much in winter and can use my wifes SUV with snows. pzeros do not work well in snow, they can be nursed around in cold teough.
If you plan to keep the car or any for any length of time it makes sense to buy snows and swap them out every year, that way you aren't wearing down your summers as fast and they will last longer and the wheels and snows will always be worth something. Driving a performance car with snows can be a lot of fun, I just am not crazy about the salt, dirt and slush that corrodes everything under the car. If you put a car that has been driven in snow with salt on a lift you will be disgusted by the oxidation.
If you plan to keep the car or any for any length of time it makes sense to buy snows and swap them out every year, that way you aren't wearing down your summers as fast and they will last longer and the wheels and snows will always be worth something. Driving a performance car with snows can be a lot of fun, I just am not crazy about the salt, dirt and slush that corrodes everything under the car. If you put a car that has been driven in snow with salt on a lift you will be disgusted by the oxidation.
12-13-2017, 11:04 AM
#47
Race Car
If anyone in the Northern VA, DC, or MD area is interested, I am selling my winter wheel set, 20" Carrera S wheels with Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 tires.
https://rennlist.com/forums/parts-ma...l#post14666975
https://rennlist.com/forums/parts-ma...l#post14666975
12-13-2017, 11:11 AM
#48
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If anyone in the Northern VA, DC, or MD area is interested, I am selling my winter wheel set, 20" Carrera S wheels with Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 tires.
https://rennlist.com/forums/parts-ma...l#post14666975
https://rennlist.com/forums/parts-ma...l#post14666975
12-13-2017, 12:16 PM
#50
Three Wheelin'
I see lots of votes for the continental dws. Also check out the Michelin a/s 3+. I’ve run both and like the Michelin’s better. They don’t have quite as much snow grip but work well in low temps and feel almost like a summer tire in terms of grip and responsiveness. Very nice tires.
If you are only driving occasionally in cold conditions, on low speed streets, you can get away with summer tires. I’ve even driven re71r tires through some snow and ice, as an experiment, and I didn’t die. Speed was 15mph, no higher.
If you are driving regularly or at higher speeds on cold roads then get the a/s 3+. If you will see snow regularly, then get a snow tire. Simple.
I drive intermittently through the winter (a couple times per month) as conditions allow and do my swap from re71r to a/s 3+ in November to ensure I’m not caught in a dangerous situation.
If you are only driving occasionally in cold conditions, on low speed streets, you can get away with summer tires. I’ve even driven re71r tires through some snow and ice, as an experiment, and I didn’t die. Speed was 15mph, no higher.
If you are driving regularly or at higher speeds on cold roads then get the a/s 3+. If you will see snow regularly, then get a snow tire. Simple.
I drive intermittently through the winter (a couple times per month) as conditions allow and do my swap from re71r to a/s 3+ in November to ensure I’m not caught in a dangerous situation.
12-13-2017, 01:05 PM
#51
Another issue you can get with summer tires that subjected to prolonged cold is they could start to get cracking in the sidewalls. (This is without even driving them) and once that happens they're toast from a safety perspective.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...king/index.htm
My summer tires sit in my basement all winter for this very reason. Lost a set of summer tires that was I was too lazy one year to drag into my basement. (it was stored in a unattached garage with zero climate control)
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...king/index.htm
My summer tires sit in my basement all winter for this very reason. Lost a set of summer tires that was I was too lazy one year to drag into my basement. (it was stored in a unattached garage with zero climate control)
12-13-2017, 01:14 PM
#52
The offset on the rears is different between the widebody and narrow cars - ET52 vs ET70. You might be able to make this work with 18MM spacers if I didn't mess up my understanding of offsets!
12-13-2017, 01:27 PM
#53
I've thought of buying winter tires and almost pulled the trigger last winter but the tires had to be picked up in NY and couldn't find the time to drive up there. I only drive in the winter when we have a warm wave, and only just to roll it around a little so it doesn't sit all winter. Still, if I could find a good deal close by I'd buy 'em. I'd like to have Hurricane's but not sure they will fit.
991.1 Winter Wheel Set
Front - 8.5 x 20 ET51 - 245/35 R20
Rear - 11 x 20 ET70 - 295/30 R20
991.2 Winter Wheel Set C2
Front - 8.5 x 20 ET 49 - 245/35 R 20 91V M+S
Rear - 11 x 20 ET 78 - 295/30 R 20 97V M+S
991.1 Winter Wheel Set
Front - 8.5 x 20 ET51 - 245/35 R20
Rear - 11 x 20 ET70 - 295/30 R20
991.2 Winter Wheel Set C2
Front - 8.5 x 20 ET 49 - 245/35 R 20 91V M+S
Rear - 11 x 20 ET 78 - 295/30 R 20 97V M+S
12-13-2017, 01:58 PM
#54
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Originally Posted by chuck911
Your mileage (and spins) my vary. That's my take on it: its not the tires. Its the driver.
What year did all this slipping and spinning take place....1950s.....or 1960s?
12-13-2017, 02:06 PM
#55
12-13-2017, 02:18 PM
#56
Three Wheelin'
12-13-2017, 02:19 PM
#57
Three Wheelin'
I see lots of votes for the continental dws. Also check out the Michelin a/s 3+. I’ve run both and like the Michelin’s better. They don’t have quite as much snow grip but work well in low temps and feel almost like a summer tire in terms of grip and responsiveness. Very nice tires.
If you are only driving occasionally in cold conditions, on low speed streets, you can get away with summer tires. I’ve even driven re71r tires through some snow and ice, as an experiment, and I didn’t die. Speed was 15mph, no higher.
If you are driving regularly or at higher speeds on cold roads then get the a/s 3+. If you will see snow regularly, then get a snow tire. Simple.
I drive intermittently through the winter (a couple times per month) as conditions allow and do my swap from re71r to a/s 3+ in November to ensure I’m not caught in a dangerous situation.
If you are only driving occasionally in cold conditions, on low speed streets, you can get away with summer tires. I’ve even driven re71r tires through some snow and ice, as an experiment, and I didn’t die. Speed was 15mph, no higher.
If you are driving regularly or at higher speeds on cold roads then get the a/s 3+. If you will see snow regularly, then get a snow tire. Simple.
I drive intermittently through the winter (a couple times per month) as conditions allow and do my swap from re71r to a/s 3+ in November to ensure I’m not caught in a dangerous situation.
12-13-2017, 03:49 PM
#58
Has anyone experienced cracking of their summer tires in winter? In North Texas, temps get below 40 in morning and warm up to 60s pretty routinely. On my previous .1, I wouldn't drive it below about 35 degrees but in 3 years I never experienced cracking. Not debating merits of driving summer tires in winter, just asking how likely it is to incur damage to the tire. Thanks!
12-13-2017, 04:29 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Here in Western Washington we sometimes get freezing temps and occasionally even snow, but mostly just cold rain. The passes however are only an hour away and compact snow and ice most of the winter. It is if anything even colder in Eastern Washington, where I attended WSU and so for 4 years drove Snoqualmie Pass half a dozen times in winter, plus having the car in Pullman all season which was always at least three months solid compact snow and ice with occasional vast stretches of black ice.
Now I really have no idea what anyone else needs. All I can say is in all those years plus another 30 up until maybe about a dozen years ago I never ran anything but the stickiest most high performance summer tire I could find. Never ran chains. Carried them. One time put them on just to get going. Stopped after less than 100 feet and removed them. One time drove right past a WSP officer on the pass when chains were required. Also drove up to Schweitzer to go skiing one time when chains were required and I would have made it to the top if the idiots who don't know how to drive hadn't slowed me down a little too much at one point a couple hundred yards from the lot.
Of course winter tires are not required. How could they be? What? Are summer tires gonna freeze solid and break into little pieces? I don't think so. What I think, and opinions may differ, but what I think is that just as in summer if you run less than the most high performance tire you will have less traction than the guy who does, and that just as when it rains you will have less traction with no tread compared to full tread, that in winter you will have less traction with anything less than the best winter tire than if you had mounted the best winter tire. Could be wrong. Pretty sure I am right.
What I did was I learned how to drive in those low-traction conditions. Got to where going down a straight road I could put the car in a spin, do a 360, and continue on in a straight line. Got so good at it, got so confident, I even did it one time not on a deserted road but one with cars parked both sides. Yeah, go ahead, have a cow. But when I did this I was GOOD AT IT!
Again, that was with high performance summer tires. Stahlflex 3011's if I got the number right. Great big tread blocks. No sipes. Being a poor college student, not a lot of tread most of the time either.
When I finally did start running winter tires it was NOT for traction but to save my nice summer wheels.
Your mileage (and spins) my vary. That's my take on it: its not the tires. Its the driver.
Now I really have no idea what anyone else needs. All I can say is in all those years plus another 30 up until maybe about a dozen years ago I never ran anything but the stickiest most high performance summer tire I could find. Never ran chains. Carried them. One time put them on just to get going. Stopped after less than 100 feet and removed them. One time drove right past a WSP officer on the pass when chains were required. Also drove up to Schweitzer to go skiing one time when chains were required and I would have made it to the top if the idiots who don't know how to drive hadn't slowed me down a little too much at one point a couple hundred yards from the lot.
Of course winter tires are not required. How could they be? What? Are summer tires gonna freeze solid and break into little pieces? I don't think so. What I think, and opinions may differ, but what I think is that just as in summer if you run less than the most high performance tire you will have less traction than the guy who does, and that just as when it rains you will have less traction with no tread compared to full tread, that in winter you will have less traction with anything less than the best winter tire than if you had mounted the best winter tire. Could be wrong. Pretty sure I am right.
What I did was I learned how to drive in those low-traction conditions. Got to where going down a straight road I could put the car in a spin, do a 360, and continue on in a straight line. Got so good at it, got so confident, I even did it one time not on a deserted road but one with cars parked both sides. Yeah, go ahead, have a cow. But when I did this I was GOOD AT IT!
Again, that was with high performance summer tires. Stahlflex 3011's if I got the number right. Great big tread blocks. No sipes. Being a poor college student, not a lot of tread most of the time either.
When I finally did start running winter tires it was NOT for traction but to save my nice summer wheels.
Your mileage (and spins) my vary. That's my take on it: its not the tires. Its the driver.
12-13-2017, 04:31 PM
#60
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Easy answer:
Summer tires are not designed to function below 40 (or 45) degrees F.
Drive below that temp, you could be in for a nasty surprise.
You could do really well, but luck will catch up with you at some point.
Summer tires are not designed to function below 40 (or 45) degrees F.
Drive below that temp, you could be in for a nasty surprise.
You could do really well, but luck will catch up with you at some point.