Loosing driver involvement with 991 - really??
08-07-2013, 05:52 PM
#1
Loosing driver involvement with 991 - really??
So much has been said and criticized about PDK only, and in general technology upgrades making 991 P cars less involving.
The truth will always lie on the eye of the beholder and not much could be criticized about that statement. As humans we are born the same with the ability to differ from others as time progresses. In essence thats what makes life colorful.
With that said, and going back to our beloved P cars, taste and expectations about cars in general will be as different as there are individuals in this planet (And here comes the but), but the natural progression of life thru we humans creates a forward movement towards improvement. Thats just the way it is.
So the goals of the engineers and everybody else at Porsche naturally seek improvement with each generation of P cars released to the market place. It would be hard to market a car that does not handle as good and is slower than last year's model. By improving the capabilities of each generation of P cars there will be change and sometimes these might be little things sometimes these might be huge as the so talked about no manual gearbox.
The inevitable change is bound to create satisfaction on one side and dissatisfaction on the other. There will be ones that refuse to participate in the change and others that will embrace it. There are no wrongs or rights in this argument, there are just different opinions of likes or dislikes.
For the most part my likes push me towards embracing the change side which I will admit that my wife would probably be surprised if she read this, because I am square as far as my likes and dislikes.
I do miss the old stuff from time to time and my solution is to have an 80s 911 where I can feel everything else thats muted by technology. I also have a 996 dedicated track car with no carpets or interior plastics, full cage, full suspension mods, no mufflers,etc etc, and believe me when I tell you that everything can be felt or heard on that car.
For the record I am not saying that those who believe that the newer 911s give us less involvement than previous models is not true. I mean just drive a 80s 911 back to back with a 991 and there is no way that someone could possibly deny the fact that older P cars are more involving than newer models, but to make them quicker technology needs to prevail. In the world of high performance sports cars there is only one goal and thats first place.
So there you go just giving my opinion as usual.
The truth will always lie on the eye of the beholder and not much could be criticized about that statement. As humans we are born the same with the ability to differ from others as time progresses. In essence thats what makes life colorful.
With that said, and going back to our beloved P cars, taste and expectations about cars in general will be as different as there are individuals in this planet (And here comes the but), but the natural progression of life thru we humans creates a forward movement towards improvement. Thats just the way it is.
So the goals of the engineers and everybody else at Porsche naturally seek improvement with each generation of P cars released to the market place. It would be hard to market a car that does not handle as good and is slower than last year's model. By improving the capabilities of each generation of P cars there will be change and sometimes these might be little things sometimes these might be huge as the so talked about no manual gearbox.
The inevitable change is bound to create satisfaction on one side and dissatisfaction on the other. There will be ones that refuse to participate in the change and others that will embrace it. There are no wrongs or rights in this argument, there are just different opinions of likes or dislikes.
For the most part my likes push me towards embracing the change side which I will admit that my wife would probably be surprised if she read this, because I am square as far as my likes and dislikes.
I do miss the old stuff from time to time and my solution is to have an 80s 911 where I can feel everything else thats muted by technology. I also have a 996 dedicated track car with no carpets or interior plastics, full cage, full suspension mods, no mufflers,etc etc, and believe me when I tell you that everything can be felt or heard on that car.
For the record I am not saying that those who believe that the newer 911s give us less involvement than previous models is not true. I mean just drive a 80s 911 back to back with a 991 and there is no way that someone could possibly deny the fact that older P cars are more involving than newer models, but to make them quicker technology needs to prevail. In the world of high performance sports cars there is only one goal and thats first place.
So there you go just giving my opinion as usual.
08-07-2013, 06:48 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Very well put and true!
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Mine is the opposite of yours : the loss of a manual transmission got to me and I can't go over it even though I can embrace everything else. Because of that,newer Porsches do not interest me anymore,not one bit! I do not need a Porsche,there are plenty other brands that satisfy my needs and cost a lot less. I only buy Porsche because it's fun,that's the only reason. Automatic is not fun(just my opinion of course),I mean it can be decent in my AMG,but not in a Porsche. I am not closed minded nor antiquated,I don't need an 80's Porsche,but a manual 991 might just be my last Porsche.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Mine is the opposite of yours : the loss of a manual transmission got to me and I can't go over it even though I can embrace everything else. Because of that,newer Porsches do not interest me anymore,not one bit! I do not need a Porsche,there are plenty other brands that satisfy my needs and cost a lot less. I only buy Porsche because it's fun,that's the only reason. Automatic is not fun(just my opinion of course),I mean it can be decent in my AMG,but not in a Porsche. I am not closed minded nor antiquated,I don't need an 80's Porsche,but a manual 991 might just be my last Porsche.
08-07-2013, 07:44 PM
#3
Nordschleife Master
Very well put and true!
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Mine is the opposite of yours : the loss of a manual transmission got to me and I can't go over it even though I can embrace everything else. Because of that,newer Porsches do not interest me anymore,not one bit! I do not need a Porsche,there are plenty other brands that satisfy my needs and cost a lot less. I only buy Porsche because it's fun,that's the only reason. Automatic is not fun(just my opinion of course),I mean it can be decent in my AMG,but not in a Porsche. I am not closed minded nor antiquated,I don't need an 80's Porsche,but a manual 991 might just be my last Porsche.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Mine is the opposite of yours : the loss of a manual transmission got to me and I can't go over it even though I can embrace everything else. Because of that,newer Porsches do not interest me anymore,not one bit! I do not need a Porsche,there are plenty other brands that satisfy my needs and cost a lot less. I only buy Porsche because it's fun,that's the only reason. Automatic is not fun(just my opinion of course),I mean it can be decent in my AMG,but not in a Porsche. I am not closed minded nor antiquated,I don't need an 80's Porsche,but a manual 991 might just be my last Porsche.
08-07-2013, 08:06 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
I agree, though I could be persuaded to by a PDK car because I own 2 manual Porsches all ready. I just can't fork out that much money to drive a car that I will lose interest in. Winning Porsche DE events because you have a superior car is boring and only time will tell when a newer one comes out that bests it. It will be quick but it won't be as quick as the C7 or Viper which do come in manual and still requires driving skill even though they do offer all the auto blip stuff so your don't need real skill as well but at least it can be turned off. I'd also like to have a 964 as well but I wouldn't go back any further, the 964 has a perfect gearbox with great gearing.
08-08-2013, 12:37 AM
#5
I might add, and in all honesty if I had a chance to shape technology I would design a manual gearbox into the equation, but unfortunately I dont have the magic wand in my possesion. People like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Porsche, and all the big guys kinda decide where the whole thing is headed. Kinda because demand plays an important roll and if thats the case demand has pushed the supply side into double clutch auto trannys.
Who knows, like I have stated before, Porsche might release limited editions of the 991TT in a 7 speed or even a GT3 but we all know how much these examples will probably cost.
Who knows, like I have stated before, Porsche might release limited editions of the 991TT in a 7 speed or even a GT3 but we all know how much these examples will probably cost.
08-16-2013, 09:21 PM
#6
RL Community Team
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I do the two flavors thing.
The 356C for twisty back road weekend fun and the 996TT for pavement eating track days and daily driving. When I buy a 991 it will have PDK.
The 356C for twisty back road weekend fun and the 996TT for pavement eating track days and daily driving. When I buy a 991 it will have PDK.
12-01-2013, 06:15 PM
#7
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No manual=No sale
I understand a small percentage of owners order manual now. I was excited when Porsche offered the first 7 speed manual and just as disappointed when the 991 Turbo was PDK only. It is simple for me no manual=no sale. I enjoy driving the car with the manual. Not nearly as much without.
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12-10-2013, 01:05 AM
#8
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I agree the lack of a manual option in the current turbo is disheartening. Yes PDK is better, faster etc., however, if I am spending 200k for a new turbo I want the option to build it with a manual.
There is a rumor that a "track package" option is in the works with a manual. However, Porsche will likely offer it on the turbo only and not the S. It killed me when I built my last turbo with a manual plus all the S options and ended up with a 188k turbo.
The sales will be the true test. If the 991 turbo is a success the manual 911 turbo is probably gone forever.
There is a rumor that a "track package" option is in the works with a manual. However, Porsche will likely offer it on the turbo only and not the S. It killed me when I built my last turbo with a manual plus all the S options and ended up with a 188k turbo.
The sales will be the true test. If the 991 turbo is a success the manual 911 turbo is probably gone forever.
12-10-2013, 10:06 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
I agree the lack of a manual option in the current turbo is disheartening. Yes PDK is better, faster etc., however, if I am spending 200k for a new turbo I want the option to build it with a manual.
There is a rumor that a "track package" option is in the works with a manual. However, Porsche will likely offer it on the turbo only and not the S. It killed me when I built my last turbo with a manual plus all the S options and ended up with a 188k turbo.
The sales will be the true test. If the 991 turbo is a success the manual 911 turbo is probably gone forever.
There is a rumor that a "track package" option is in the works with a manual. However, Porsche will likely offer it on the turbo only and not the S. It killed me when I built my last turbo with a manual plus all the S options and ended up with a 188k turbo.
The sales will be the true test. If the 991 turbo is a success the manual 911 turbo is probably gone forever.
12-10-2013, 12:48 PM
#10
Instructor
I am with you on this. My dealer called me a few days ago to 'offer me' a Turbo S that sticker'd past 210K. It's obvious the 991 TTS are not flying off the lot. I laughed a bit, was slightly disgruntled in the conversation and told him I was now looking for a 458/599.
12-10-2013, 04:29 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
What was Porsche's reasoning for making the turbo (and S) and GT3 PDK only? It seems like they will lose buyers to other marques with this decision.
While I prefer PDK on my modern street cars, every once in a while I still like to row a manual box on the street.
On the track I prefer the modern sequential if cost is no object. Considering cost, the manual still fits the bill better for me unless I'm competing in a class where competitors can run the sequential with no weight penalty.
While I prefer PDK on my modern street cars, every once in a while I still like to row a manual box on the street.
On the track I prefer the modern sequential if cost is no object. Considering cost, the manual still fits the bill better for me unless I'm competing in a class where competitors can run the sequential with no weight penalty.
12-11-2013, 01:09 AM
#12
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My source on the possibility of a manual transmission named a "track package" is very credible. He is the same person who told me two years ago they would launch the next Turbo and Turbo S at the same time with PDK. Although the latter was relatively easy to see coming, the fact that he gave the manual option a name is intriguing. My bet about the manual being offered only in the turbo and not the S is only my hunch.
If Porsche is listening here is what I really want: a manual option in either Turbo or Turbo S configuration that includes some specific weight savings, no cost GT seats, carbon mirrors, carbon rear wing and you can call it a "track package." Makes all us old schoolers who still love a manual happy and plenty of add ons for Porsche to differentiate the car and of course charge obscenely for it.
If Porsche is listening here is what I really want: a manual option in either Turbo or Turbo S configuration that includes some specific weight savings, no cost GT seats, carbon mirrors, carbon rear wing and you can call it a "track package." Makes all us old schoolers who still love a manual happy and plenty of add ons for Porsche to differentiate the car and of course charge obscenely for it.
12-11-2013, 09:50 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
My source on the possibility of a manual transmission named a "track package" is very credible. He is the same person who told me two years ago they would launch the next Turbo and Turbo S at the same time with PDK. Although the latter was relatively easy to see coming, the fact that he gave the manual option a name is intriguing. My bet about the manual being offered only in the turbo and not the S is only my hunch.
If Porsche is listening here is what I really want: a manual option in either Turbo or Turbo S configuration that includes some specific weight savings, no cost GT seats, carbon mirrors, carbon rear wing and you can call it a "track package." Makes all us old schoolers who still love a manual happy and plenty of add ons for Porsche to differentiate the car and of course charge obscenely for it.
If Porsche is listening here is what I really want: a manual option in either Turbo or Turbo S configuration that includes some specific weight savings, no cost GT seats, carbon mirrors, carbon rear wing and you can call it a "track package." Makes all us old schoolers who still love a manual happy and plenty of add ons for Porsche to differentiate the car and of course charge obscenely for it.
12-11-2013, 03:17 PM
#14
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^^Also sell more non s turbos.
As far as driver involvement goes, it's a step in the right direction. My how far we've moved away from the ultimate sports car, the 930.
As far as driver involvement goes, it's a step in the right direction. My how far we've moved away from the ultimate sports car, the 930.