Loosing driver involvement with 991 - really??
12-12-2013, 06:13 AM
#16
What was Porsche's reasoning for making the turbo (and S) and GT3 PDK only? It seems like they will lose buyers to other marques with this decision.
While I prefer PDK on my modern street cars, every once in a while I still like to row a manual box on the street.
On the track I prefer the modern sequential if cost is no object. Considering cost, the manual still fits the bill better for me unless I'm competing in a class where competitors can run the sequential with no weight penalty.
While I prefer PDK on my modern street cars, every once in a while I still like to row a manual box on the street.
On the track I prefer the modern sequential if cost is no object. Considering cost, the manual still fits the bill better for me unless I'm competing in a class where competitors can run the sequential with no weight penalty.
Just for the book: You can shift PDK manually too, paddles or gear lever. Just no clutch. No, you're not less of a man if you use PDK.
12-20-2013, 01:30 AM
#17
2nd Gear
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I friend of mine has a Ferrari 430 Scuderia with the F1 gear box. It has paddles and is fun a heck to drive all day long. It's just the wave of the future. I'll probably go with the TT vs a MG 4S.
12-28-2013, 10:45 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Anhedonia is no laughing matter. If a PDK-equipped Turbo isn't "fun," you need to see a pharmacist, not a Porsche dealer.
12-30-2013, 12:59 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
I'm really perplexed by the demand for H-pattern manual trannies. I've raced modern and vintage cars for about 20 years now and (where the rules allow it) I'd much rather have a Motorsport sequential or PDK box in my race car. For the street, the only choice would be PDK as the sequential would be an extreme PITA.
I always shift the PDK in manual mode. When shifted in manual mode, it's as engaging as an H-pattern, just faster and error free.
Why do people want an old technology that is slower and more prone to costly errors (over revs that kill motors)?
P.S. I recently upgraded my road bike (bicycle) to electronic shifters too. Shimano Di2. PDK for bicycles.
I always shift the PDK in manual mode. When shifted in manual mode, it's as engaging as an H-pattern, just faster and error free.
Why do people want an old technology that is slower and more prone to costly errors (over revs that kill motors)?
P.S. I recently upgraded my road bike (bicycle) to electronic shifters too. Shimano Di2. PDK for bicycles.
01-03-2014, 11:02 PM
#21
I wonder how many of the people complaing about lack of manual have any decent seat time with a PDK. When I started looking for my 991 I wouldn't have even dreamed of it. After a few extensive test drives I was made a believer. You can be as "involved" as you want to.
On second thought, forget it, give me manual, and forget that whole newfangled synchromesh thing. Just give me a box with straight cut gears that I have to double clutch....
On second thought, forget it, give me manual, and forget that whole newfangled synchromesh thing. Just give me a box with straight cut gears that I have to double clutch....
01-04-2014, 01:36 AM
#22
Nordschleife Master
Well I think it is because we enjoy having our car on a leash and not have some computer doing everything. I see the need to have the new tech because it open the doors for all the people who don't give a puck, lack any skill to learn how to drive manual and are even scared of them but they should still give us the choice of having both options. I am still on the fence if I will ever buy a modern automatic, and that 's even given I have multiple manual cars that I can drive all ready. Maybe for the wife but not for me unless I had to race against similar spec'd cars. They really are not as mentally or physically engaging as manual. I have driven them, I've perfected driving them which took all about an hour if that. Just nothing special about them.
01-04-2014, 08:26 AM
#23
Still plays with cars.
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Guys, here's my take. Porsche road cars are closely related to their race cars. Gt3 Cups and RSRs use sequential gear boxes now with auto-blip for matching revs on downshifts.
A sequential gear box would be awful for a streetcar. Now ask yourself this, is there a big difference between pulling a lever and pulling a paddle? I see PDK as making a road car closer to the race car - something I have always liked about Porsches. Note that with the sequential the clutch is not used on upshifts - just stay on the gas and pull the lever. Is PDK so different? I drive PDK in manual mode and love it. Looking forward to my new RS with PDK!
Best,
A sequential gear box would be awful for a streetcar. Now ask yourself this, is there a big difference between pulling a lever and pulling a paddle? I see PDK as making a road car closer to the race car - something I have always liked about Porsches. Note that with the sequential the clutch is not used on upshifts - just stay on the gas and pull the lever. Is PDK so different? I drive PDK in manual mode and love it. Looking forward to my new RS with PDK!
Best,
02-02-2014, 12:39 AM
#24
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Hi everyone,
I feel I must add to this discussion and I really appreciate the depth of a few of them before. O.K. I just got rid, meaning traded it, three Turbo's. 996 Coupe, 996 Cabriolet, and 997 Coupe. All with cold air, plenum, springs, GIAC chips, etc. Yes, they were all great as far as the process of speed and I felt for awhile that I didn't realize the process was a large extent, the sound of the exhaust, etc.
Now, I must admit, no matter how much I loved Jezzabel, Mary, and Phoenix I still must admit the twisted circle to turn up the ac, the rather limited and warm and fuzzy tightness of the 996 too.
I did made the move and to be really honest with you all, I first was scared because Deseree is a totally new beast. You can't have a starbucks iced between your legs and the usual visual circumference is different too. I was scared! It was fear!
This baby is so damn fast that I'm going 93 instead of 78 in the usual quick starts and short runs between lights so I won't get caught!
But, progress is progress and Porsche does know better than me. I love Porsche's but I am so used to and controlling and used to living on the edge of where I know my former lovers can go without me decorating their each beautiful bodies!
Deseree is so far superior that Fear is what holds me back. The paddle shifting is just not manual so I don't know it yet! I'm more than ready to do what they did in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.... "Run away....!" But because I'm looking at everyone else and admitting it I know am beginning to understand. This is far superior to me and my driving and I have the chance to move my driving and learning about paddle shifting and becoming acquainted with something I must admit I know nothing about!
Step up to the plate and join the rest of us! Yes, I still owe 127.000.00 but who cares it's even cheaper than paying for my other three lovers and you know what.. I'm beginning to understand that I am simply afraid of change and understanding that I'm not nearly as good as I probably though I was but learn about what probably is the 'King of the road' and I will not only survive but succeed! C'mon guys.. we're no longer kids but we must at least deal with conquering the things we still can and not the generation that we have no idea how they even got here... ha ha....
Love ya! Just wish me luck too cause I think we can step up and do it too!
Richard
I feel I must add to this discussion and I really appreciate the depth of a few of them before. O.K. I just got rid, meaning traded it, three Turbo's. 996 Coupe, 996 Cabriolet, and 997 Coupe. All with cold air, plenum, springs, GIAC chips, etc. Yes, they were all great as far as the process of speed and I felt for awhile that I didn't realize the process was a large extent, the sound of the exhaust, etc.
Now, I must admit, no matter how much I loved Jezzabel, Mary, and Phoenix I still must admit the twisted circle to turn up the ac, the rather limited and warm and fuzzy tightness of the 996 too.
I did made the move and to be really honest with you all, I first was scared because Deseree is a totally new beast. You can't have a starbucks iced between your legs and the usual visual circumference is different too. I was scared! It was fear!
This baby is so damn fast that I'm going 93 instead of 78 in the usual quick starts and short runs between lights so I won't get caught!
But, progress is progress and Porsche does know better than me. I love Porsche's but I am so used to and controlling and used to living on the edge of where I know my former lovers can go without me decorating their each beautiful bodies!
Deseree is so far superior that Fear is what holds me back. The paddle shifting is just not manual so I don't know it yet! I'm more than ready to do what they did in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.... "Run away....!" But because I'm looking at everyone else and admitting it I know am beginning to understand. This is far superior to me and my driving and I have the chance to move my driving and learning about paddle shifting and becoming acquainted with something I must admit I know nothing about!
Step up to the plate and join the rest of us! Yes, I still owe 127.000.00 but who cares it's even cheaper than paying for my other three lovers and you know what.. I'm beginning to understand that I am simply afraid of change and understanding that I'm not nearly as good as I probably though I was but learn about what probably is the 'King of the road' and I will not only survive but succeed! C'mon guys.. we're no longer kids but we must at least deal with conquering the things we still can and not the generation that we have no idea how they even got here... ha ha....
Love ya! Just wish me luck too cause I think we can step up and do it too!
Richard
02-02-2014, 01:24 PM
#25
Really for me, a former "manual" guy, I would not even consider a TT or TTS with a manual. In a non turbo-maybe. Paired with the NA motor it might enhance a little bit of the fun with the rowing but in the super car high-performance realm of the turbos-NO WAY. I would seriously view it as "old". The integration of a technological marvel of a gearbox paired with a remarkable motor is quite frankly a perfect and appropriate combination.
I am sure there was a lot of this manual trans talk amongst the ranks of race drivers way back when but I doubt ANY would likely choose it. It's evolution-remember when "fuel injection" was blasphemy? And turbos?-forget it!
I know opinions are subjective and this is merely mine. Those of you who say "Porsches are the most fun cars" but you will not buy one because it has no manual might think twice, because soon, with ALL manufacturers, the manual will go by the wayside because the consumers no longer demand it. You will be left in a less fun car eventually and still without your manual.
I am sure there was a lot of this manual trans talk amongst the ranks of race drivers way back when but I doubt ANY would likely choose it. It's evolution-remember when "fuel injection" was blasphemy? And turbos?-forget it!
I know opinions are subjective and this is merely mine. Those of you who say "Porsches are the most fun cars" but you will not buy one because it has no manual might think twice, because soon, with ALL manufacturers, the manual will go by the wayside because the consumers no longer demand it. You will be left in a less fun car eventually and still without your manual.
Last edited by ColdList; 02-02-2014 at 01:40 PM.
02-02-2014, 01:59 PM
#26
I have had 2 PDK and 2 MT 911's. I am a convert and now much prefer my PDK. I believe those with MT still love it and I get it BUT when they get their first PDK car most of them will be converts too. I am a better, faster and safer driver with PDK. It's not for everyone but it is superior. John Glenn still prefers his mercury capsule to a shuttle. What we need is Sebastian Vettel to buy a new GT3 and say how much he enjoys it....then what would the naysayers say. MT still has a nostalgic feel like drum brakes and 4 barrel carbs.....cool but not state of the art. No way I was going to spend 200K and not get state of the art.
02-04-2014, 04:10 AM
#27
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My first two Ferrari's (F550 & 456GT) had gated six speed manual transmissions and while I enjoyed the mechanical feeling of shifting, as a daily or track driver nowhere as enjoyable and efficient as the F1 transmission in my 2004 360 Modena. Like others have stated, I would only consider the PDK with my Turbo order and frankly never thought once about a manual. Not sure about the Porsche stats, but Ferrari made the same decision for the 458 and likely all generations forward will be dual clutch F1 or PDK like.
MB
MB
02-04-2014, 12:07 PM
#28
loosing - definition of loosing by the Free Online Dictionary ...
www.thefreedictionary.com/loosing
Not taut, fixed, or rigid: a loose anchor line; a loose chair leg. 3. Free from confinement or imprisonment; ...
www.thefreedictionary.com/loosing
Not taut, fixed, or rigid: a loose anchor line; a loose chair leg. 3. Free from confinement or imprisonment; ...
02-04-2014, 06:39 PM
#29
My first two Ferrari's (F550 & 456GT) had gated six speed manual transmissions and while I enjoyed the mechanical feeling of shifting, as a daily or track driver nowhere as enjoyable and efficient as the F1 transmission in my 2004 360 Modena. Like others have stated, I would only consider the PDK with my Turbo order and frankly never thought once about a manual. Not sure about the Porsche stats, but Ferrari made the same decision for the 458 and likely all generations forward will be dual clutch F1 or PDK like.
MB
MB