Chris Harris drives the 991 GT3
06-14-2013, 03:51 AM
#166
Race Director
Typical linguistically clever and entertaining Monkey video but other than the fact that optional seats are fixed vs folding (side note: passenger and driver seats are different) and that the RWS goes neutral when drifting really nothing new that wasn't already covered in this forum and the R&T review. Stellar car; tragedy about the lack of manual option.
Remain 1st on my dealer's list for manual 991 RS with 5-lug option.....
Remain 1st on my dealer's list for manual 991 RS with 5-lug option.....
06-14-2013, 04:15 AM
#167
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The thing is, a racing car driver is a person doing a job - they are in the car to perform a specified task, normally to be 1st at the end of a race weekend.
I bought myself a new GTR a few years ago because I thought outright speed would bring me all the driving pleasure I could ever want.
After a few track days and uninspiring road driving I realised that there is so much more to driving than sheer pace.
I then bought a GT3 because I wanted a manual box, I wanted a car that was sensitive to balance and challenging to drive - something I could always learn from.
It is people like myself who will not be buying a 991 GT3. We are in the minority. As CH says, for every one of us there will now be three or four new customers who come to the brand so all will be a success for Porsche.
I bought myself a new GTR a few years ago because I thought outright speed would bring me all the driving pleasure I could ever want.
After a few track days and uninspiring road driving I realised that there is so much more to driving than sheer pace.
I then bought a GT3 because I wanted a manual box, I wanted a car that was sensitive to balance and challenging to drive - something I could always learn from.
It is people like myself who will not be buying a 991 GT3. We are in the minority. As CH says, for every one of us there will now be three or four new customers who come to the brand so all will be a success for Porsche.
Agree.
06-14-2013, 04:19 AM
#168
Rennlist Member
Typical linguistically clever and entertaining Monkey video but other than the fact that optional seats are fixed vs folding (side note: passenger and driver seats are different) and that the RWS goes neutral when drifting really nothing new that wasn't already covered in this forum and the R&T review. Stellar car; tragedy about the lack of manual option.
Remain 1st on my dealer's list for manual 991 RS with 5-lug option.....
Remain 1st on my dealer's list for manual 991 RS with 5-lug option.....
If you'd like to bet beer for wine on it Im happy to take the wager as it seems to be the popular challenge to me of late....
06-14-2013, 08:22 AM
#170
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Slow is usually boring. Faster is usually more fun. But fast alone is not necessarily fun enough. The car also needs to thoroughly engage the driver, responding sensitively to the driver's inputs while amply communicating the physics of what's happening to the driver, without overly masking driver mistakes. It's not yet clear that the 991 GT3 is better than or equal to the 997 GT3 on these criteria, though both are certainly great cars, and both are plenty fast.
06-14-2013, 09:37 AM
#171
Rennlist Member
The thing is, a racing car driver is a person doing a job - they are in the car to perform a specified task, normally to be 1st at the end of a race weekend.
I bought myself a new GTR a few years ago because I thought outright speed would bring me all the driving pleasure I could ever want.
After a few track days and uninspiring road driving I realised that there is so much more to driving than sheer pace.
I then bought a GT3 because I wanted a manual box, I wanted a car that was sensitive to balance and challenging to drive - something I could always learn from.
It is people like myself who will not be buying a 991 GT3. We are in the minority. As CH says, for every one of us there will now be three or four new customers who come to the brand so all will be a success for Porsche.
I bought myself a new GTR a few years ago because I thought outright speed would bring me all the driving pleasure I could ever want.
After a few track days and uninspiring road driving I realised that there is so much more to driving than sheer pace.
I then bought a GT3 because I wanted a manual box, I wanted a car that was sensitive to balance and challenging to drive - something I could always learn from.
It is people like myself who will not be buying a 991 GT3. We are in the minority. As CH says, for every one of us there will now be three or four new customers who come to the brand so all will be a success for Porsche.
Slow is usually boring. Faster is usually more fun. But fast alone is not necessarily fun enough. The car also needs to thoroughly engage the driver, responding sensitively to the driver's inputs while amply communicating the physics of what's happening to the driver, without overly masking driver mistakes. It's not yet clear that the 991 GT3 is better than or equal to the 997 GT3 on these criteria, though both are certainly great cars, and both are plenty fast.
For the same reasons I cant yet choose a 991GT3 over a 997GT3.. We will see what the RS brings and 991.2RS will bring...
06-14-2013, 11:19 AM
#172
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No joke either.
06-14-2013, 11:40 AM
#174
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Slow is usually boring. Faster is usually more fun. But fast alone is not necessarily fun enough. The car also needs to thoroughly engage the driver, responding sensitively to the driver's inputs while amply communicating the physics of what's happening to the driver, without overly masking driver mistakes. It's not yet clear that the 991 GT3 is better than or equal to the 997 GT3 on these criteria, though both are certainly great cars, and both are plenty fast.
I think the better question is whether the Scud or 458 are fast but unfun. If you aren't having fun in a Scud then the new GT3 is likely not for you.
06-14-2013, 12:11 PM
#175
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Completely agreed. Again, more over reactions. Just b/c the GT3 now only comes with an auto does not automatically make it a GTR in terms of fun factor. I just love it how people automatically point to the GTR car as the holy grail of fast but unfun and then categorically proclaim that the new GT3 is the same animal.
I think the better question is whether the Scud or 458 are fast but unfun. If you aren't having fun in a Scud then the new GT3 is likely not for you.
I think the better question is whether the Scud or 458 are fast but unfun. If you aren't having fun in a Scud then the new GT3 is likely not for you.
06-14-2013, 12:16 PM
#176
Rennlist Member
Some of my favorite three-pedal factory efforts...
Carrera GT V10
RS 4.0
996 GT3
Boxster Spyder
997 GT3 Cup/RSR
997-1 GT2
916
993 RS
959S
997-1 GT2
Base 997-1, 997-2, 991-1 with NO performance options
And some other three-pedal cars that really stood out...
Ruf CTR (!!!!!!)
Champion's "Werk K1" (tuned 997 Turbo)
Audi R8
E30 M3 w/2.5, 16s, and Dinan suspension
550 Maranello
BMW 1M
But don't get me wrong, I spent two years with a PDK Cayman S to see if I could be converted (loved it on track, a lot less so on the street), and there are some two-pedal cars I am very into, from the ur-S8, C63, and Pana GTS to the 458 Italia and (tentatively, after a limited drive) 918 Spyder. After all, fun is where you find it.
Given the choice, though, I'll always row my own.
pete
Carrera GT V10
RS 4.0
996 GT3
Boxster Spyder
997 GT3 Cup/RSR
997-1 GT2
916
993 RS
959S
997-1 GT2
Base 997-1, 997-2, 991-1 with NO performance options
And some other three-pedal cars that really stood out...
Ruf CTR (!!!!!!)
Champion's "Werk K1" (tuned 997 Turbo)
Audi R8
E30 M3 w/2.5, 16s, and Dinan suspension
550 Maranello
BMW 1M
But don't get me wrong, I spent two years with a PDK Cayman S to see if I could be converted (loved it on track, a lot less so on the street), and there are some two-pedal cars I am very into, from the ur-S8, C63, and Pana GTS to the 458 Italia and (tentatively, after a limited drive) 918 Spyder. After all, fun is where you find it.
Given the choice, though, I'll always row my own.
pete
06-14-2013, 12:21 PM
#178
Rennlist Member
Very interesting comments, Pete. I also watched CH's video with great interest. Your comments (as well as CH's) re: personal/philosophical standpoint are very telling. Voting with your "wallet" is a key metric...
If/when I decide not to race anymore and I can only have one car for track/street use, then the PDK GT3 sounds like an awesome choice. With the 991 GT3, AP's group has certainly pushed the envelope of usability in all fronts. Having said this, a combination of bespoke cars i.e. dedicated race car, fun street car, daily driver, etc. is still the best, least functionally compromised way to go.
Looking forward to your full write up. And hope to play with you again at a track some time (even if I'm in my lowly 944 Rothmans race car).
If/when I decide not to race anymore and I can only have one car for track/street use, then the PDK GT3 sounds like an awesome choice. With the 991 GT3, AP's group has certainly pushed the envelope of usability in all fronts. Having said this, a combination of bespoke cars i.e. dedicated race car, fun street car, daily driver, etc. is still the best, least functionally compromised way to go.
Looking forward to your full write up. And hope to play with you again at a track some time (even if I'm in my lowly 944 Rothmans race car).
06-14-2013, 12:27 PM
#179
Rennlist Member
Hi Pete - CH seemed to suggest that the new steering is by far the best electric one made, but I detected a suggestion that it is still filtered compared to the hydraulic type. Could you offer your impression there?
What is your best guess about manual tranny versions being offered in the future?
Thanks!
What is your best guess about manual tranny versions being offered in the future?
Thanks!
My take on the basic 981/991 is that, yes, some "feel" has been sacrificed, but there are gains in accuracy and response, imho. The 991 GT3's steering is, as Chris states, a big upgrade from the standard 991 calibration (but there are other matters at work that don't include the rack itself). This tells me that, like PASM and so many other similar technologies that offer promising advantages but require thousand of hours of calibrations or even years of lessons learned, electric assist steering will improve. Just like hydraulic assist eventually made it to E36 M3 and 996/997 GT3 levels and PASM has gotten to where it is now.
06-14-2013, 12:30 PM
#180
Rennlist Member
Some of my favorite three-pedal factory efforts...
Carrera GT V10
RS 4.0
996 GT3
Boxster Spyder
997 GT3 Cup/RSR
997-1 GT2
916
993 RS
959S
997-1 GT2
Base 997-1, 997-2, 991-1 with NO performance options
And some other three-pedal cars that really stood out...
Ruf CTR (!!!!!!)
Champion's "Werk K1" (tuned 997 Turbo)
Audi R8
E30 M3 w/2.5, 16s, and Dinan suspension
550 Maranello
BMW 1M
But don't get me wrong, I spent two years with a PDK Cayman S to see if I could be converted, and there are some two-pedal cars I am very into, from the ur-S8, C63, and Pana GTS to the 458 Italia and (tentatively, after a limited drive) 918 Spyder. After all, fun is where you find it.
Given the choice, though, I'll always row my own.
pete
Carrera GT V10
RS 4.0
996 GT3
Boxster Spyder
997 GT3 Cup/RSR
997-1 GT2
916
993 RS
959S
997-1 GT2
Base 997-1, 997-2, 991-1 with NO performance options
And some other three-pedal cars that really stood out...
Ruf CTR (!!!!!!)
Champion's "Werk K1" (tuned 997 Turbo)
Audi R8
E30 M3 w/2.5, 16s, and Dinan suspension
550 Maranello
BMW 1M
But don't get me wrong, I spent two years with a PDK Cayman S to see if I could be converted, and there are some two-pedal cars I am very into, from the ur-S8, C63, and Pana GTS to the 458 Italia and (tentatively, after a limited drive) 918 Spyder. After all, fun is where you find it.
Given the choice, though, I'll always row my own.
pete
BTW, does your magazine still type set?
Sorry, I could not resist.