Originally Posted by usctrojanGT3

He didn't include you because you never come down to Buttonwillow.

That being said, I try hard to do over 20 days per session but hustling with 2 jobs and the rain will keep me under 20 this season (and I don't have a wife and kids to answer to either).

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Lol! Touché! I know, I know. I need to do it!

Originally Posted by SamFromTX

Ha! I'm similar sized to you and can tell you right away tracking would be tricky due to the crammed legs and feet. Also I hate getting into the car when there is a crowd (there always seem to be one) as it's not a graceful procedure for a 6'4" 240 pounder. Once in though, you feel like you are held by a baseball glove.

Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban

This thread is touching on some very important trends:
Buyers feeling marginalized
ADM and reverse of ADM

McLaren's are starting to claw market share mentally and awareness wise

Porsche dealers have cars the GT buyer does not necessarily "need"


1) the local guy who buys the most cars and provides the least headache wins. We have a customer who leases cayennes, panameras, wants a used RS, and is willing to sign ROFR on a GT3. He's getting one. --

second guy: out of towner- i get a call asking for 10k off every car on our small lot, tells me be buys cars from all over, gives me a hard time for not knowing he has a 430 spider, has 610 FICO. wants GT2RS PTS. Derp.

Everyone wants to be special as some have said, but some are more special. Pick your battles. I won't ever be Ferrari special, so I ask Ferrari dealer if something is possible. I have no leverage to demand. He has 40 guys waiting.

2) yes there has been an ADM on RS cars. If the OP who wanted "100k back"...so your RS is worth 260 in trade for a 160 car? Ok so you are charging a 50k ADM to dealer? Guys it goes both ways. I traded in my RS for sticker to park place in dallas. They sold me 911R at sticker. I could have sold RS on my own for 255 or whatever but didn't play games since I knew they could have yanked my R and ebay'd for 500k. At least I gave them a shot to resell a car that was marketable. And to be fair they sold to Merit who then upsold to someone else. Oh well.

If either party takes all meat off every bone other side starves. Gotta play nice- this is relationship part. Mutual risk, mutual headache.

3) mac is gaining ground. Sure they only sell 3500 cars worldwide for 200k+ but they're targeting all of you guys. As a mac dealer I am here to make deals. You will like the power, the handling, and HOLY ***** YOU CAN DO PTS ANYTIME. What do I have to lose by selling or leasing you an enjoyable car?? Nothing. Lets party. Lets go on a drive.

This whole thing about track worthiness is poppycock. How many guys besides mooty or trackcar are actually doing more than a dozen track days a year? That's what I consider light track use...once a month. Medium is 2 dozen. Heavy is 3 dozen. In the last two years i've done barely over 3 dozen track days.

12 p1
3 675LT
15 viper acr
6 BAC mono
2 RS
2 GT4
1 570S

Maintenance: Lots of tires. 1 set P1 pads. 1 set ACR pads.

4) porsche's tow vehicle is a cayenne TT. That's 140k or so for a 'barely long enough to tow' vehicle. You can buy a used raptor or a diesel f250 for 45k that will work better, cost less to insure etc. This is a big issue for VW group- they don't make a real "Truck" that GT drivers need.

We need a tow truck, we need a daily driver. The Macan GTS is a rad daily driver in the city. The new Panamera is a good sedan and steers better than the benz and feels super solid compared to a lexus etc.

But you're gonna spend 80-180k on those cars? Not everyone can afford a GT car AND a Sport Turismo Turbo.

This is an issue, and until Porsche makes an M3 for your daily...you either drive a second 911(?) or a car that miiiiiiiiiiight not fit your exact needs.

And the more expensive your GT car relative to income, the less other ancillary Porsches you buy.

THIS IS THE BIG MISCALCULATION- they think guys will scale down into a GTS or C2S. Nope. If you are a GT car guy you will sell everything else (blood, toys, stereo collection) but claw for dear life on the 2011 RS etc.

Customer profiling is important, so here is how I see it as a dealer. These are the essential questions I wonder about everyone I meet.

Top car sought out:
Daily driver car:
Wife car?
Kids car?
What car is he taking on a road trip?
Snow/ bad weather car?
Headache of a personality?
Annual mileage total?
Collector or flipper?
Will he keep in good shape?
Is there a trade?
Brand loyalty or dealer loyalty included?
Track guy?

So i'll go first (maybe this is my next thread)

1) BP23, GT2RS, P15, Ford GT,
2) Cayenne S hybrid Purpurite / M5 stick
3) Raptor
4) too young
5) road trip car: 911R, M5,
6) snow car: Cayenne S or Raptor
7) i only want weird spec
8) 20,000+ annually
9) collector, trade /1031 to upgrade/ consolidate
10) my cars are not clay bar/ waxed but mechanically tight always, I clear bra everything
11) yes i trade in- good CPO!
12) 100% dealer loyalty, 5 brands (Porsche, Mac, Ford, BMW, Audi) and open to MB and Ferrari for right models.
13) track guy: 675LT, P1, BAC, RS, 350R,

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Hey, what am I? Chopped liver?

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Lol! Touché! I know, I know. I need to do it!

Originally Posted by TRAKCAR

I sat in one. don't know what model but it was white, on display and the fit and finish was horrific. My knee's where against the dash.



That's a lot of words and a lot to think about.
13. wow. you're right.



Discrimination. I didn't go there either.



Just because you have no purple RS, you shouldn't be excluded. Protest.

Originally Posted by kyrocks

I've always been a pure Porsche guy. I have bought 11 of them in the last 7 years. However, trying out other brands has been rejuvenating, enjoyable, and much less of a headache than current Porsche dealership treatment.

It's nice to go test drive a car you really want (even if it's "special") and pay MSRP or less for it. The 570S has a better fit and finish than the 650S and 12C. It's styling is more attractive than those 2 as well (esp the P1-like rear). The car is playful with ESC-dynamic or ESC-off and it is so fun to drive. The steering is way better than current Porsches as well. I also feel it is much easier to get in and out of with the lower door sills. The 570S is not as fast as the 650S on track, but it's not my main track car. Also, I'm not a race car driver, but I track a lot. Just being able to reliable track the 570S is all I need...and if you think it's slow, you're not driving right. The McLaren just feels and looks more special. The RS is my favorite track car so far, but in the end it's just another 911 that is overhyped and overpriced.

Originally Posted by kyrocks

I've always been a pure Porsche guy. I have bought 11 of them in the last 7 years. However, trying out other brands has been rejuvenating, enjoyable, and much less of a headache than current Porsche dealership treatment.

It's nice to go test drive a car you really want (even if it's "special") and pay MSRP or less for it. The 570S has a better fit and finish than the 650S and 12C. It's styling is more attractive than those 2 as well (esp the P1-like rear). The car is playful with ESC-dynamic or ESC-off and it is so fun to drive. The steering is way better than current Porsches as well. I also feel it is much easier to get in and out of with the lower door sills. The 570S is not as fast as the 650S on track, but it's not my main track car. Also, I'm not a race car driver, but I track a lot. Just being able to reliable track the 570S is all I need...and if you think it's slow, you're not driving right. The McLaren just feels and looks more special. The RS is my favorite track car so far, but in the end it's just another 911 that is overhyped and overpriced.

Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban

This thread is touching on some very important trends:


Buyers feeling marginalized

ADM and reverse of ADM

McLaren's are starting to claw market share mentally and awareness wise

Porsche dealers have cars the GT buyer does not necessarily "need"


1) the local guy who buys the most cars and provides the least headache wins. We have a customer who leases cayennes, panameras, wants a used RS, and is willing to sign ROFR on a GT3. He's getting one. --


second guy: out of towner- i get a call asking for 10k off every car on our small lot, tells me be buys cars from all over, gives me a hard time for not knowing he has a 430 spider, has 610 FICO. wants GT2RS PTS. Derp.

Everyone wants to be special as some have said, but some are more special. Pick your battles. I won't ever be Ferrari special, so I ask Ferrari dealer if something is possible. I have no leverage to demand. He has 40 guys waiting.



2) yes there has been an ADM on RS cars. If the OP who wanted "100k back"...so your RS is worth 260 in trade for a 160 car? Ok so you are charging a 50k ADM to dealer? Guys it goes both ways. I traded in my RS for sticker to park place in dallas. They sold me 911R at sticker. I could have sold RS on my own for 255 or whatever but didn't play games since I knew they could have yanked my R and ebay'd for 500k. At least I gave them a shot to resell a car that was marketable. And to be fair they sold to Merit who then upsold to someone else. Oh well.

If either party takes all meat off every bone other side starves. Gotta play nice- this is relationship part. Mutual risk, mutual headache.

3) mac is gaining ground. Sure they only sell 3500 cars worldwide for 200k+ but they're targeting all of you guys. As a mac dealer I am here to make deals. You will like the power, the handling, and HOLY ***** YOU CAN DO PTS ANYTIME. What do I have to lose by selling or leasing you an enjoyable car?? Nothing. Lets party. Lets go on a drive.

This whole thing about track worthiness is poppycock. How many guys besides mooty or trackcar are actually doing more than a dozen track days a year? That's what I consider light track use...once a month. Medium is 2 dozen. Heavy is 3 dozen. In the last two years i've done barely over 3 dozen track days.

12 p1
3 675LT
15 viper acr
6 BAC mono
2 RS
2 GT4
1 570S


Maintenance: Lots of tires. 1 set P1 pads. 1 set ACR pads.


4) porsche's tow vehicle is a cayenne TT. That's 140k or so for a 'barely long enough to tow' vehicle. You can buy a used raptor or a diesel f250 for 45k that will work better, cost less to insure etc. This is a big issue for VW group- they don't make a real "Truck" that GT drivers need.

We need a tow truck, we need a daily driver. The Macan GTS is a rad daily driver in the city. The new Panamera is a good sedan and steers better than the benz and feels super solid compared to a lexus etc.

But you're gonna spend 80-180k on those cars? Not everyone can afford a GT car AND a Sport Turismo Turbo.

This is an issue, and until Porsche makes an M3 for your daily...you either drive a second 911(?) or a car that miiiiiiiiiiight not fit your exact needs.

And the more expensive your GT car relative to income, the less other ancillary Porsches you buy.

THIS IS THE BIG MISCALCULATION- they think guys will scale down into a GTS or C2S. Nope. If you are a GT car guy you will sell everything else (blood, toys, stereo collection) but claw for dear life on the 2011 RS etc.


Customer profiling is important, so here is how I see it as a dealer. These are the essential questions I wonder about everyone I meet.

Top car sought out:
Daily driver car:
Wife car?
Kids car?
What car is he taking on a road trip?
Snow/ bad weather car?
Headache of a personality?
Annual mileage total?
Collector or flipper?
Will he keep in good shape?
Is there a trade?
Brand loyalty or dealer loyalty included?
Track guy?


So i'll go first (maybe this is my next thread)

1) BP23, GT2RS, P15, Ford GT,
2) Cayenne S hybrid Purpurite / M5 stick
3) Raptor
4) too young
5) road trip car: 911R, M5,
6) snow car: Cayenne S or Raptor
7) i only want weird spec
8) 20,000+ annually
9) collector, trade /1031 to upgrade/ consolidate
10) my cars are not clay bar/ waxed but mechanically tight always, I clear bra everything
11) yes i trade in- good CPO!
12) 100% dealer loyalty, 5 brands (Porsche, Mac, Ford, BMW, Audi) and open to MB and Ferrari for right models.
13) track guy: 675LT, P1, BAC, RS, 350R,

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Hey, what am I? Chopped liver?

Originally Posted by kyrocks

I've always been a pure Porsche guy. I have bought 11 of them in the last 7 years. However, trying out other brands has been rejuvenating, enjoyable, and much less of a headache than current Porsche dealership treatment.

It's nice to go test drive a car you really want (even if it's "special") and pay MSRP or less for it. The 570S has a better fit and finish than the 650S and 12C. It's styling is more attractive than those 2 as well (esp the P1-like rear). The car is playful with ESC-dynamic or ESC-off and it is so fun to drive. The steering is way better than current Porsches as well. I also feel it is much easier to get in and out of with the lower door sills. The 570S is not as fast as the 650S on track, but it's not my main track car. Also, I'm not a race car driver, but I track a lot. Just being able to reliable track the 570S is all I need...and if you think it's slow, you're not driving right. The McLaren just feels and looks more special. The RS is my favorite track car so far, but in the end it's just another 911 that is overhyped and overpriced.

Originally Posted by usctrojanGT3

Tell me that PP is still treating you right? You are lucky that you don't have to deal with the sort of dealerships that are present on the west coast (with a few exceptions).

Originally Posted by chaosoul

Hmmmmm.... interesting that out of the dozens of posts that everyone is considering of jumping... McLaren is the only alternative haha. Obviously 570S is one of the closest price points.

Originally Posted by usctrojanGT3

Oh believe me...if Porsche GT cars were turbo or hybrid turbos, I'd strongly consider a Mac. The draw on the NA engines is strong though.