Whoopsy

How is a Panamera Turbo S falls outside of the current product range? There had always been a Panamera Turbo S since it's birth.

The Turbo S had always been a slow seller simply because of the price premium. Most people are satisfied with the 'basic' Turbo model.

The 918 VIP program is already not popular with the regular Porsche clients, Porsche is not going to create ANOTHER VIP program just because. It doesn't make sense.

When they informed us 918 owners about the hybrid Panamera Turbo S, we are all extremely excited about it and quite looking forward to having one.

Alan Smithee

^ It will be another level above the Turbo S in terms of price and performance, no? Uncharted waters.

I know nothing about the 'new' VIP program beyond the rumors posted here. Unpopular though it may be, it does seem to be an effective carrot.

sccchiii

These are not rumors.....I was on conference call myself. 2 things discussed, 918 owners flipping awarded special allocations for profit (not wide spread but happening with both RS and a couple Rs) and eliminating the flippers from VIP program. Going forward VIP must hold onto a special allocation for at least 1 year but all discussed possibly changing to 2 year requirement (I doubt this will change past 1 year) and incorporating the new terms to VIP program before new Pano comes out with the approx 700Hp (all in) and it will get VIP benefits. I'm only reporting the news don't shoot the messenger...

Wild Weasel

I honestly don't get the issue of VIPs flipping cars for profit. It seems to me that they bought that right.

I don't like OTHER people getting allocations and then flipping them for profit... but the VIPs have a right to buy those cars.

sccchiii

The spirit as intended was the benefit of owning special limited cars and giving VIP priority for the high price of 918s (and goal was moving remaining 918s). PCNA didn't realize at time all the negative feedback from non vip customers and dealers and abuse that would possibly happen.

Wild Weasel

I understand that, and I don't think they should ever offer such a programme again in the future. But it is what it is.

It's like holding options way below the stock value that are about to expire. Not exercising them just doesn't make any sense.

sccchiii

Well I guess it depends on what you consider "exercising", I think most would say go ahead and exercise all you want but hold onto cars and stop flipping before your car has even arrived or immediately after. Others would say sell away thats your right or "was" your right. VIP conditions are subject to change......well they are changing, like it or not.

Guest89

I believe that a shooting brake is - technically - a 2 door wagon; originally used for hunting. I doubt Porsche will call it that.

Whoopsy

Not according to the greedy dealers. They believe they are the only one that should ever make money selling Porsche.

The dealers are the one complaining to Porsche the loudest about VIPs selling their cars soon after buying one. At market price. To whoever, instead of the dealers assigning the sale to their 'preferred customers' at whatever mark up.

The dealers felt like those profits are theirs to make, not the VIP customers.

For the dealers that actually bought a 918, they can flip their allocations without getting into trouble at all, as they are 'dealers'. The normal 918 owners have had fights with Porsche and the dealers, in the end, the almighty dealers won. They are the VVIPs, way above the 918 VIPs. Untouchables.

Dealers are the actual customers of PCNA, they buy cars from PCNA then sell them to end users, and of course PCNA will always take care of their direct customers first.

The original 280 or so 918 VIPs are now down to less than 250, some got booted when they sold their 918 early, others got booted because of dealers complaining about they selling the GT3RS and the 911R.

Alan Smithee

As they should be. Porsche dealers should be the only ones profiting on new Porsche sales. The intention of the VIP program was not to provide a secondary market controlled by 918 owners for the most desirable and profitable models, however...
...they had to be pretty dim to not predict this would happen, and they made their bed. So f-em.

Whoopsy

Hmm, how can 918 VIPs control the second hand market? Hmm.

The dealers themselves set the market price, not the VIP and hence control them, if the dealers don't charge outrageous market adjustment to cars, then the 'flip' market don't really have much traction.

And this is only a USA problem, everywhere else dealers are not allowed to sell cars above MSRP.

The cars are not brand new per se, they have been titled already so technically second hand.

For the 918 owners, most are serial car buyers, they will buy up anything and everything, it doesn't matter if those make money or lose money, for example the new Acrua NSX, Mercedes AMGs, regular Panamera Turbo/Turbo S, Cayenne Turbo/Turbo S, various 911s/Cayman, assorted Lamborghinis, McLarens, BMW i8s, Audi whatever, etc. Some go through cars every couple months or maybe 6. It's a different mentality at those level.

Granted, some do are indeed in for the money only, but those are the minority.


BTW, this is not even my fight, I lived in Canada and not part of the BS from PCNA treating dealers like royalties.

fxz

This will end up to stop limited cars products
or most likely limited cars will be nothing but stripes and pts

that s why GT3 should satisfy R angry ones

so called vips still happy whit a self illusionary nobleness
(bc of stripes go figure the level of frustration...)

Ppl happy

Porsche happy

Alan Smithee

918 VIPs get dibs on roughly the first 250 of each 'special' model coming to the US, at MSRP, so they get to initially set markups for the serial buyers you mention, not the dealers. On the RS it was, what, $100k to start? (Plenty of people out here with play money that did not buy 918s.) Dealers then begin wholesaling to each other for, what, $40-50k over in order to obtain inventory? Of course once more cars reach the US, the 918 VIPs have less control, and the prices start to go down. But on something like the 911R where there are no more cars, who is controlling the market in the US other than 918 VIPs? The 14 or whatever it was that got one outside of the program? It certainly isn't Porsche dealers.

Whoopsy

And who offers to buy cars from those initial batch first? The dealers of course!

VIPs don't and can't set prices, they would have no idea what the initial number would be. When dealers start offering money to buy those cars back from the VIPs, then a price range is set.

A VIP could sell the car back to the dealers for what's offered. And the dealer mark that buying price as the whole sale price and then tack on 10-15-20% as the retail market price.

As for the R. same deal. Rarely are the cars traded hands privately, most are through dealers. And it's the dealers again that set the whole sale price and the retail price. As you said, majority of the Rs in the US are in the hands of the 918 VIPs, and most of them are not selling. Dealers knows that and thus they had to offer outrageous money to pry one off somebody, especially when the VIP involved will lose his VIP privilege after selling the car, so a proper compensation is required and offered. That's what drives up the price.

Had people wait a little bit before chasing an R, say after 6 months to a year, instead of wanting to have one right now to show off, then the dealers won't be offering outrageous sums of money to the VIPs because the VIP's privilege will still be intact even if they sell the car.

In the end, it is still the dealers that control the prices.

As for those 14 cars in the hands of non-918 owners, they are the special VIPs of Porsche, that's why they got the allocations in the first place. And they are exempt from being booted from the VIP program simply because of their status. They can do whatever they want with their cars and you can bet that they will still be offered limited production cars in the future.

bronson7

I disagree. The dealers are in the business to make money, we can all agree on that, but if we, the buyer DON'T cave in to the markups and simply sit on the sideline waiting to buy only at MSRP, then that's the price. Remember, the final price is what the end user is willing to pay, not what the dealers are asking, no different than what we see in the private used sales market. I realize this is easier said than done. It's no different then when you go buy a plain Jane Chevy, there's a MSRP but what the final price will be is what the buyer/dealer eventually agree on, which in many instances, below MSRP. So to finalize this, in my opinion, it's the end buyer us, which dictates the prices. Remember that old saying, "it's only worth what someone is willing to pay". Atleast that's my opinion.