Ford GT or 991 GT3 RS
06-15-2016, 09:41 PM
#61
Race Car
06-15-2016, 11:51 PM
#62
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The Le Mans Party
For those of you living in South Florida.
Come to The NEW Porsche Dealership in Davie Saturday to watch Le Mans on their big screens. It kicks off in the morning and goes through the evening. From what I hear there are going to be hundreds of people there with some pretty rare cars. They have a new 50k driving simulator and with have several bars in the evening.
Come to The NEW Porsche Dealership in Davie Saturday to watch Le Mans on their big screens. It kicks off in the morning and goes through the evening. From what I hear there are going to be hundreds of people there with some pretty rare cars. They have a new 50k driving simulator and with have several bars in the evening.
06-16-2016, 09:45 AM
#63
Burning Brakes
06-16-2016, 11:38 AM
#64
Marv 
06-16-2016, 11:59 AM
#65
Platinum Dealership
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Oh wait turbo v8? Even more space taken up. Supercharged? Wrong again. The car will keep the EcoBoost V6TT layout. The only thing being tweaked around still is ECU tuning, ESC tuning and the radiator ducting into the rear fenders.
To everyone else- I have personally spoken to people that work very high up at Ford and MultiMatic about the car and it is being compared to the Aventador SV and 675LT for performance and ride quality and track worthiness markers.
Ford is making an inital run of 500 cars for 2017 MY and 2018MY. Depending on major economic factors, it will either keep producing them at 250/yr or not. Ford wants this project to be profitable and there is a supply chain, 3rd party relationship, customer base triangle that they are trying to balance out.
06-16-2016, 01:05 PM
#66
Drifting
LeMans is this weekend. If the FGT does well or wins its value will double overnight. They won at Laguna Seca in May but LeMans is a different animal.
I haven't seen Team Dempsey/Proton doing very well with the GT3R. I don't think they are getting much factory support or help. Thats major.
The full weight of Ford is behind this years LeMan effort. Unfortunate that the Matech team in 2009 did not have any factory help at LeMans in 2009. Despite that one of their FGTs was leading in class for 8 hours until it was hit by a Peugot coming out of the pits.
I haven't seen Team Dempsey/Proton doing very well with the GT3R. I don't think they are getting much factory support or help. Thats major.
The full weight of Ford is behind this years LeMan effort. Unfortunate that the Matech team in 2009 did not have any factory help at LeMans in 2009. Despite that one of their FGTs was leading in class for 8 hours until it was hit by a Peugot coming out of the pits.
I stand corrected. The below is from the Porsche Motorsports site.
Looks like PAG is fielding a factory team with some real heavy weights.
Should be exciting.
As an RS and FGT owner not sure who to route for! I guess I'll route for both.
Definitely don't want to see Chebby win.
Six Porsche works drivers contest the GTE-Pro class at Le Mans for the Porsche Motorsport factory squad. Sharing the cockpit of the No91 Porsche 911 RSR are Nick Tandy and reigning IMSA GT champion Patrick Pilet (France) with Kévin Estre (France). The sister 911 RSR with the starting number 92 has an equally strong line-up. Earl Bamber shares driving duties with Jörg Bergmeister (Germany) and Frédéric Makowiecki (France). With 14 starts until now, Jörg Bergmeister has the most experience as a Porsche GT pilot at Le Mans. Taking up the race in the 911 RSR run by the Dempsey Proton Racing customer team is Richard Lietz (Austria), the WEC winner of the FIA World Endurance Trophy in 2015 as the best GT pilot, and his works driver colleague Michael Christensen (Denmark), with whom he contests the entire WEC season. Supporting them as the third driver is Philipp Eng (Austria), the 2015 winner of both the Porsche Mobil 1 Supercup and the Porsche Carrera Cup Deutschland. This will be Eng’s cameo appearance at Le Mans, where traditionally double points are awarded towards the WEC championship. In the GTE-Am class, four other customer teams and two Porsche works drivers race the Porsche 911 RSR: Abu Dhabi Proton Racing with Patrick Long (USA) and KCMG with Wolf Henzler (Germany), as well as Gulf Racing and Proton Competition.
Looks like PAG is fielding a factory team with some real heavy weights.
Should be exciting.
As an RS and FGT owner not sure who to route for! I guess I'll route for both.
Definitely don't want to see Chebby win. Six Porsche works drivers contest the GTE-Pro class at Le Mans for the Porsche Motorsport factory squad. Sharing the cockpit of the No91 Porsche 911 RSR are Nick Tandy and reigning IMSA GT champion Patrick Pilet (France) with Kévin Estre (France). The sister 911 RSR with the starting number 92 has an equally strong line-up. Earl Bamber shares driving duties with Jörg Bergmeister (Germany) and Frédéric Makowiecki (France). With 14 starts until now, Jörg Bergmeister has the most experience as a Porsche GT pilot at Le Mans. Taking up the race in the 911 RSR run by the Dempsey Proton Racing customer team is Richard Lietz (Austria), the WEC winner of the FIA World Endurance Trophy in 2015 as the best GT pilot, and his works driver colleague Michael Christensen (Denmark), with whom he contests the entire WEC season. Supporting them as the third driver is Philipp Eng (Austria), the 2015 winner of both the Porsche Mobil 1 Supercup and the Porsche Carrera Cup Deutschland. This will be Eng’s cameo appearance at Le Mans, where traditionally double points are awarded towards the WEC championship. In the GTE-Am class, four other customer teams and two Porsche works drivers race the Porsche 911 RSR: Abu Dhabi Proton Racing with Patrick Long (USA) and KCMG with Wolf Henzler (Germany), as well as Gulf Racing and Proton Competition.
Although I am probably the only one, a couple of things make Le Mans a bit muted. First, modern rules are so parity-driven that the cars them selves are either hamstrung or enhanced compared to what a consumer can actually purchase, that racing is not relevant to me. For example, the GT Will likely be heavily restricted or ballasted to equalize it to the Porsche. Second, the word is competing in a lesser class, whereas in the 1960s it was competing for the overall win Second, Ford is competing in a lesser class, whereas in the 1960s it was competing for the overall win.
That said, be simple headline of "Ford wins," will overwhelm 99.9% of potential buyers. I would not discount Chevy, their team as well seasoned and they have excellent equipment.
But as a street car, the technology, mass, power, and bespoke nature of the GT makes it head and shoulders above the RS in my opinion.
Oh and for those who have the means to say that if you can afford one, you can afford both, bully for you, but there might be a few of us not quite in that boat.
That said, be simple headline of "Ford wins," will overwhelm 99.9% of potential buyers. I would not discount Chevy, their team as well seasoned and they have excellent equipment.
But as a street car, the technology, mass, power, and bespoke nature of the GT makes it head and shoulders above the RS in my opinion.
Oh and for those who have the means to say that if you can afford one, you can afford both, bully for you, but there might be a few of us not quite in that boat.
The Porsche GTE Pro / "factory" effort is not really a factory effort at all. Porsche has partnered with Manthey to run the 91 and 92 cars, although they rarely acknowledge Manthey's support. Earl Bamber mentioned Manthey in an interview yesterday, however. This decision to drop the true factory effort in GTE Pro came on the heels of Dieselgate.
As for the drivers being heavyweights, Porsche has too many works drivers for too few seats, which is why Bergmeister has to drive a GTD car in IMSA. The musical chairs game began when VW AG cut the Porsche and Audi LMP1 efforts from 3 cars to 2, pushing Tandy and Bamber down into GT cars (a real shame).
Dempsey-Proton GTE Pro car - also a current year RSR, not a GT3R - was not materially slower, especially in the context of an 8+ mile lap.
As for GTE Am, the cars are a year old and driven by Gentleman drivers (at least in part), so difficult to tell.
Whereas Ferrari and Porsche (and Aston, to a lesser extent) build and sell customer cars with some intention of both winning races and turning a profit on selling the race cars, Ford's only goal is to win Le Mans this year.
They created a prototype car, have built exactly zero street cars thus far (waiver and all other teams consented, but still), and have sandbagged throughout earlier rounds in both IMSA and WEC. For all this subterfuge, Ford received a benefit in terms of BOP only a few days ago!
Why anyone would cheer for a team with such a cynical approach that is entirely contrary to the spirit of the race is beyond me...
06-16-2016, 03:21 PM
#68
Drifting
Lol, Wali.
Vincent Beaumesnil has confirmed that BOP modifications are possible between quali and race, but I'm confident it won't happen:
The FIA and ACO WANT the headline of a titanic 24 hour battle between Ford and Ferrari, so they're giving both of them an advantage that amounts to ~4 seconds a lap, or ~4 laps (~35 miles! over the course of the race); figures are per recent David Heinemeier Hansson tweet.
Vincent Beaumesnil has confirmed that BOP modifications are possible between quali and race, but I'm confident it won't happen:
The FIA and ACO WANT the headline of a titanic 24 hour battle between Ford and Ferrari, so they're giving both of them an advantage that amounts to ~4 seconds a lap, or ~4 laps (~35 miles! over the course of the race); figures are per recent David Heinemeier Hansson tweet.
06-16-2016, 05:52 PM
#69
I would not get too bent out of shape. Racing has been more and more of a form of entertainment and less and less a form of true sport for quite some time. It's probably just a sign of my advancing and more crotchety age, but I find all professional "sports" of lesser and lesser interest every year. As for racing, I find club racing far more interesting, because most of the guys doing it are doing it out of love for the sport. You still have people like the payday loan King show up at club races to club baby seals, but most of us are doing for the sport.
06-16-2016, 06:01 PM
#70
Drifting
I would not get too bent out of shape. Racing has been more and more of a form of entertainment and less and less a form of true sport for quite some time. It's probably just a sign of my advancing and more crotchety age, but I find all professional "sports" of lesser and lesser interest every year. As for racing, I find club racing far more interesting, because most of the guys doing it are doing it out of love for the sport. You still have people like the payday loan King show up at club races to club baby seals, but most of us are doing for the sport.
06-16-2016, 06:26 PM
#72
Race Car
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Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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On Le Mans:
The Porsche GTE Pro / "factory" effort is not really a factory effort at all. Porsche has partnered with Manthey to run the 91 and 92 cars, although they rarely acknowledge Manthey's support. Earl Bamber mentioned Manthey in an interview yesterday, however. This decision to drop the true factory effort in GTE Pro came on the heels of Dieselgate.
As for the drivers being heavyweights, Porsche has too many works drivers for too few seats, which is why Bergmeister has to drive a GTD car in IMSA. The musical chairs game began when VW AG cut the Porsche and Audi LMP1 efforts from 3 cars to 2, pushing Tandy and Bamber down into GT cars (a real shame).
Dempsey-Proton GTE Pro car - also a current year RSR, not a GT3R - was not materially slower, especially in the context of an 8+ mile lap.
As for GTE Am, the cars are a year old and driven by Gentleman drivers (at least in part), so difficult to tell.
Whereas Ferrari and Porsche (and Aston, to a lesser extent) build and sell customer cars with some intention of both winning races and turning a profit on selling the race cars, Ford's only goal is to win Le Mans this year.
They created a prototype car, have built exactly zero street cars thus far (waiver and all other teams consented, but still), and have sandbagged throughout earlier rounds in both IMSA and WEC. For all this subterfuge, Ford received a benefit in terms of BOP only a few days ago!
Why anyone would cheer for a team with such a cynical approach that is entirely contrary to the spirit of the race is beyond me...
The Porsche GTE Pro / "factory" effort is not really a factory effort at all. Porsche has partnered with Manthey to run the 91 and 92 cars, although they rarely acknowledge Manthey's support. Earl Bamber mentioned Manthey in an interview yesterday, however. This decision to drop the true factory effort in GTE Pro came on the heels of Dieselgate.
As for the drivers being heavyweights, Porsche has too many works drivers for too few seats, which is why Bergmeister has to drive a GTD car in IMSA. The musical chairs game began when VW AG cut the Porsche and Audi LMP1 efforts from 3 cars to 2, pushing Tandy and Bamber down into GT cars (a real shame).
Dempsey-Proton GTE Pro car - also a current year RSR, not a GT3R - was not materially slower, especially in the context of an 8+ mile lap.
As for GTE Am, the cars are a year old and driven by Gentleman drivers (at least in part), so difficult to tell.
Whereas Ferrari and Porsche (and Aston, to a lesser extent) build and sell customer cars with some intention of both winning races and turning a profit on selling the race cars, Ford's only goal is to win Le Mans this year.
They created a prototype car, have built exactly zero street cars thus far (waiver and all other teams consented, but still), and have sandbagged throughout earlier rounds in both IMSA and WEC. For all this subterfuge, Ford received a benefit in terms of BOP only a few days ago!
Why anyone would cheer for a team with such a cynical approach that is entirely contrary to the spirit of the race is beyond me...
This is exactly what every Porsche owner should be
Well informed and zero marketing bluff
call it to be cynical but only this will keep Porsche on offering real contents
whilst others are more focused on green stripes...
but the ones whom really love Porsche future are with tje former
06-16-2016, 06:27 PM
#73
Nordschleife Master
On Le Mans:
The Porsche GTE Pro / "factory" effort is not really a factory effort at all. Porsche has partnered with Manthey to run the 91 and 92 cars, although they rarely acknowledge Manthey's support. Earl Bamber mentioned Manthey in an interview yesterday, however. This decision to drop the true factory effort in GTE Pro came on the heels of Dieselgate.
As for the drivers being heavyweights, Porsche has too many works drivers for too few seats, which is why Bergmeister has to drive a GTD car in IMSA. The musical chairs game began when VW AG cut the Porsche and Audi LMP1 efforts from 3 cars to 2, pushing Tandy and Bamber down into GT cars (a real shame).
Dempsey-Proton GTE Pro car - also a current year RSR, not a GT3R - was not materially slower, especially in the context of an 8+ mile lap.
As for GTE Am, the cars are a year old and driven by Gentleman drivers (at least in part), so difficult to tell.
Whereas Ferrari and Porsche (and Aston, to a lesser extent) build and sell customer cars with some intention of both winning races and turning a profit on selling the race cars, Ford's only goal is to win Le Mans this year.
They created a prototype car, have built exactly zero street cars thus far (waiver and all other teams consented, but still), and have sandbagged throughout earlier rounds in both IMSA and WEC. For all this subterfuge, Ford received a benefit in terms of BOP only a few days ago!
Why anyone would cheer for a team with such a cynical approach that is entirely contrary to the spirit of the race is beyond me...
The Porsche GTE Pro / "factory" effort is not really a factory effort at all. Porsche has partnered with Manthey to run the 91 and 92 cars, although they rarely acknowledge Manthey's support. Earl Bamber mentioned Manthey in an interview yesterday, however. This decision to drop the true factory effort in GTE Pro came on the heels of Dieselgate.
As for the drivers being heavyweights, Porsche has too many works drivers for too few seats, which is why Bergmeister has to drive a GTD car in IMSA. The musical chairs game began when VW AG cut the Porsche and Audi LMP1 efforts from 3 cars to 2, pushing Tandy and Bamber down into GT cars (a real shame).
Dempsey-Proton GTE Pro car - also a current year RSR, not a GT3R - was not materially slower, especially in the context of an 8+ mile lap.
As for GTE Am, the cars are a year old and driven by Gentleman drivers (at least in part), so difficult to tell.
Whereas Ferrari and Porsche (and Aston, to a lesser extent) build and sell customer cars with some intention of both winning races and turning a profit on selling the race cars, Ford's only goal is to win Le Mans this year.
They created a prototype car, have built exactly zero street cars thus far (waiver and all other teams consented, but still), and have sandbagged throughout earlier rounds in both IMSA and WEC. For all this subterfuge, Ford received a benefit in terms of BOP only a few days ago!
Why anyone would cheer for a team with such a cynical approach that is entirely contrary to the spirit of the race is beyond me...
What else is new.
I would have hope for a level/fair playing field but in this day and age I guess that's just too much to ask for.
06-16-2016, 06:32 PM
#74
Nordschleife Master
Sorry man but this is not the case. There is not enough room in the tub for a big v8- even then why would they put an engine that is heavier and slower into this car?
Oh wait turbo v8? Even more space taken up. Supercharged? Wrong again. The car will keep the EcoBoost V6TT layout. The only thing being tweaked around still is ECU tuning, ESC tuning and the radiator ducting into the rear fenders.
To everyone else- I have personally spoken to people that work very high up at Ford and MultiMatic about the car and it is being compared to the Aventador SV and 675LT for performance and ride quality and track worthiness markers.
Ford is making an inital run of 500 cars for 2017 MY and 2018MY. Depending on major economic factors, it will either keep producing them at 250/yr or not. Ford wants this project to be profitable and there is a supply
chain, 3rd party relationship, customer base triangle that they are trying to balance out.
Oh wait turbo v8? Even more space taken up. Supercharged? Wrong again. The car will keep the EcoBoost V6TT layout. The only thing being tweaked around still is ECU tuning, ESC tuning and the radiator ducting into the rear fenders.
To everyone else- I have personally spoken to people that work very high up at Ford and MultiMatic about the car and it is being compared to the Aventador SV and 675LT for performance and ride quality and track worthiness markers.
Ford is making an inital run of 500 cars for 2017 MY and 2018MY. Depending on major economic factors, it will either keep producing them at 250/yr or not. Ford wants this project to be profitable and there is a supply
chain, 3rd party relationship, customer base triangle that they are trying to balance out.
A tub is likely easy to modify to accommodate a slightly larger engine.
I would have thought the new FPC would have been in the NFGT.
06-16-2016, 07:02 PM
#75
Drifting
LOL, I am opinionated on this topic.
This is exactly what every Porsche owner should be
Well informed and zero marketing bluff
call it to be cynical but only this will keep Porsche on offering real contents
whilst others are more focused on green stripes...
but the ones whom really love Porsche future are with tje former
Thank you! I'll be settling down to watch the entire race this weekend.
This is - of course - only an opinion that I hold, but I laid my argument out pretty well I think.
The issues for Porsche's lack of competitiveness are manifold, but center around a few things (in no particular order):
1 - Porsche culture (slow and deliberate to react at times, insistence that every discrete business line be profitable; slavish usage of the 911 for marketing)
2 - Dieselgate and attendant cost cutting
3 - BOP (in WEC/LM, IMSA, SRO GT3, etc.)
The above reasons are why Porsche is marginally competitive at Le Mans this weekend, why they are still racing the non-DFI Mezger engine, and why the 960 is a myth (at least for now). Next year's RSR car will probably be midengined or turbo or both, but they're already behind competitors.
In straight up terms a Ford GT or a Ferrari 488 would murder a GT3 RS around any track on which WEC or IMSA race, but the BOP system is designed to *ostensibly* equalize performance and lower costs/expenditures. Gross oversimplification: it gives Porsche and Aston Martin a leg up, and retards the Ford and Ferrari. The problem is that it is an inherently political process.
Nevertheless, the gap between the factory GTE Pro Porsches and the Fords was much narrower in the wet during quali 2 and 3, due to the 911's unique traction advantage in the wet...
New Ford GT is a marketing exercise. Ecoboost is the future.
They'll sell plenty of pedestrian cars with "the exact same EcoBoost engine that Ford used to whoop Ferrari's *** at Le Mans."
This is exactly what every Porsche owner should be
Well informed and zero marketing bluff
call it to be cynical but only this will keep Porsche on offering real contents
whilst others are more focused on green stripes...
but the ones whom really love Porsche future are with tje former
So basically what you are saying is the "fix" is in for Ford for publicity purposes which equals $$$ and advertising dollars. Is this why PAG is not fielding the 991R instead?
What else is new.
I would have hope for a level/fair playing field but in this day and age I guess that's just too much to ask for.
What else is new.
I would have hope for a level/fair playing field but in this day and age I guess that's just too much to ask for.
The issues for Porsche's lack of competitiveness are manifold, but center around a few things (in no particular order):
1 - Porsche culture (slow and deliberate to react at times, insistence that every discrete business line be profitable; slavish usage of the 911 for marketing)
2 - Dieselgate and attendant cost cutting
3 - BOP (in WEC/LM, IMSA, SRO GT3, etc.)
The above reasons are why Porsche is marginally competitive at Le Mans this weekend, why they are still racing the non-DFI Mezger engine, and why the 960 is a myth (at least for now). Next year's RSR car will probably be midengined or turbo or both, but they're already behind competitors.
In straight up terms a Ford GT or a Ferrari 488 would murder a GT3 RS around any track on which WEC or IMSA race, but the BOP system is designed to *ostensibly* equalize performance and lower costs/expenditures. Gross oversimplification: it gives Porsche and Aston Martin a leg up, and retards the Ford and Ferrari. The problem is that it is an inherently political process.
Nevertheless, the gap between the factory GTE Pro Porsches and the Fords was much narrower in the wet during quali 2 and 3, due to the 911's unique traction advantage in the wet...
They'll sell plenty of pedestrian cars with "the exact same EcoBoost engine that Ford used to whoop Ferrari's *** at Le Mans."