Singer 911
08-04-2018, 11:21 PM
#106
08-04-2018, 11:24 PM
#107
With respect, you need to see my R. Would not trade it for any Singer. Porsche is capable of a better level of craftsmanship than Singer. Not saying that of all Porsche's but definitely in relation to this R.
08-04-2018, 11:32 PM
#108
Also, while I applaud William's engineering in the the new Singer (or should I say Williams), it is no longer a Porsche or even has the charm of the original Singer. Instead, it is an excellent but overly cold piece of technology that resembles an older Porsche. In other words, a well done, high tech tech restomod. Would rather have a real Porsche. But, of course, this is personal preference.
08-04-2018, 11:36 PM
#109
Platinum Dealership
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Originally Posted by DRPM
^100% agreed
CJ
incoming Pasta Alfresco. Or is that 488 Pista? :-) I’m jealous as I tried to get an allocation.
CJ
incoming Pasta Alfresco. Or is that 488 Pista? :-) I’m jealous as I tried to get an allocation.
08-05-2018, 12:49 AM
#110
Also, while I applaud William's engineering in the the new Singer (or should I say Williams), it is no longer a Porsche or even has the charm of the original Singer. Instead, it is an excellent but overly cold piece of technology that resembles an older Porsche. In other words, a well done, high tech tech restomod. Would rather have a real Porsche. But, of course, this is personal preference.
08-05-2018, 12:57 AM
#111
Race Director
Singer. 911R. CGT. 997 RS 4.0. If you can afford any of them you are doing something right. I am sure they are each awesome in their own unique way.
08-05-2018, 04:16 AM
#112
We could debate plastic buttons all day long. I might not like some of the interior parts of a Singer (e.g., some of its switches or the MB armrest) but both are examples of function over form. More interesting, however, is where did they put the airbags that were on the 964. Indeed, have Singers been actually crash tested to the same level of a new Porsche? As this newest Singer is virtually a new car, has Singer formally subjected it to the standards required of a new car? Have, e.g., head impact standards been met? Have the NHSTA/DOT requirements been met or is Singer hiding behind the old car thing even though the entire car is new? Indeed, is there absolute proof that it is a safe as a new car? I would think that Williams would not like the liability if it did not.
P.S. As I look at Singer literature, I have seen nothing of its compliance with various pollution standards, either in Europe or in the U.S. As effectively an entirely new car, is it not required to meet any such standards? I would think that for $1.8 million, Williams and Singer would provide the buyer with the certifications one gets with a Ford.
P.S. As I look at Singer literature, I have seen nothing of its compliance with various pollution standards, either in Europe or in the U.S. As effectively an entirely new car, is it not required to meet any such standards? I would think that for $1.8 million, Williams and Singer would provide the buyer with the certifications one gets with a Ford.
08-05-2018, 04:36 AM
#113
Rennlist Member
Airbag issue (removal) seems a big issue imo. Have been questioning this for a long time...Insurance, NSHTA...did it on my 92 Cup Car (US version) 10 years ago and same thoughts went thru my mind. Would not do it again now...
08-05-2018, 06:52 AM
#114
You would think that for in excess of $600,000, let alone for $1.8 million, that a Singer would be at least as safe as a Volvo or a Subaru -- and that the families of the Singer owners would insist upon nothing less. I assume that Williams has done this as they should understand the potential legal consequences of not doing so.
08-05-2018, 08:01 AM
#115
We could debate plastic buttons all day long. I might not like some of the interior parts of a Singer (e.g., some of its switches or the MB armrest) but both are examples of function over form. More interesting, however, is where did they put the airbags that were on the 964. Indeed, have Singers been actually crash tested to the same level of a new Porsche? As this newest Singer is virtually a new car, has Singer formally subjected it to the standards required of a new car? Have, e.g., head impact standards been met? Have the NHSTA/DOT requirements been met or is Singer hiding behind the old car thing even though the entire car is new? Indeed, is there absolute proof that it is a safe as a new car? I would think that Williams would not like the liability if it did not.
P.S. As I look at Singer literature, I have seen nothing of its compliance with various pollution standards, either in Europe or in the U.S. As effectively an entirely new car, is it not required to meet any such standards? I would think that for $1.8 million, Williams and Singer would provide the buyer with the certifications one gets with a Ford.
P.S. As I look at Singer literature, I have seen nothing of its compliance with various pollution standards, either in Europe or in the U.S. As effectively an entirely new car, is it not required to meet any such standards? I would think that for $1.8 million, Williams and Singer would provide the buyer with the certifications one gets with a Ford.
08-05-2018, 09:04 AM
#116
Not a diversion at all but a legitimate question. Indeed, your response seems a way to divert away from safety and emissions. Why? Does anyone have an answer to safety and emissions certifications of Singer?
P.S. Not questioning the craftsmanship as that is a matter of personal taste and, personally, I like my R better.
P.S. Not questioning the craftsmanship as that is a matter of personal taste and, personally, I like my R better.
08-05-2018, 12:49 PM
#117
Rennlist Member
Not a diversion at all but a legitimate question. Indeed, your response seems a way to divert away from safety and emissions. Why? Does anyone have an answer to safety and emissions certifications of Singer?
P.S. Not questioning the craftsmanship as that is a matter of personal taste and, personally, I like my R better.
P.S. Not questioning the craftsmanship as that is a matter of personal taste and, personally, I like my R better.
I think it's because he (or any Singer fan) is looking at Singer as more of a more classic car (even with all the modern tech) and the standard safety of one of the older cars (or a car one has modded with say racing steering wheels, lightweight panels and bucket seats with harness' which take airbags away or alter how the car was built with respects to safety from the factory etc etc) vs thinking about a car that's produced by a modern company which obviously has to have every modern safety standard and emissions standard cleared (911r). If Singer produced totally new cars with any real volume, that would be understandable...but given that they are doing what is considered an intense restoration so to speak (yes, its definitely replaces more than most)...it's not unlike any car that would be mainly exempt (CA) in the US according to classic car emissions and safety standards. I don't think any enthusiast buys a car like a Singer (or ANY 50s through 90s porsche...) and expects that it's as safe as a brand new passenger vehicle (and why there are available roll bars, harness options and race buckets as any track day special would have from Singer).
On another note, quite a few of the Singer customers have a 911r...and we all love them both and constantly refer to the 911r having as close to a Singer ethos that a new Porsche can possibly can contain. Meanwhile, yours with all of the parts you've done must just be absolutely beyond incredible.
Last edited by sechsgang; 08-05-2018 at 01:10 PM.
08-05-2018, 12:57 PM
#118
Rennlist Member
Yeah, I didn't ever see the safety or emissions arguments coming out. MAYBE safety but emissions???
Both pretty cool cars all around and I'd take either one in a heart beat. But i wouldn't pick one over the other for emissions. I might pay extra to smell the petrol
Both pretty cool cars all around and I'd take either one in a heart beat. But i wouldn't pick one over the other for emissions. I might pay extra to smell the petrol
08-05-2018, 03:42 PM
#119
We could debate plastic buttons all day long. I might not like some of the interior parts of a Singer (e.g., some of its switches or the MB armrest) but both are examples of function over form. More interesting, however, is where did they put the airbags that were on the 964. Indeed, have Singers been actually crash tested to the same level of a new Porsche? As this newest Singer is virtually a new car, has Singer formally subjected it to the standards required of a new car? Have, e.g., head impact standards been met? Have the NHSTA/DOT requirements been met or is Singer hiding behind the old car thing even though the entire car is new? Indeed, is there absolute proof that it is a safe as a new car? I would think that Williams would not like the liability if it did not.
P.S. As I look at Singer literature, I have seen nothing of its compliance with various pollution standards, either in Europe or in the U.S. As effectively an entirely new car, is it not required to meet any such standards? I would think that for $1.8 million, Williams and Singer would provide the buyer with the certifications one gets with a Ford.
P.S. As I look at Singer literature, I have seen nothing of its compliance with various pollution standards, either in Europe or in the U.S. As effectively an entirely new car, is it not required to meet any such standards? I would think that for $1.8 million, Williams and Singer would provide the buyer with the certifications one gets with a Ford.
J
08-05-2018, 06:45 PM
#120
